A little help and advice....

[maxxnme]

Hi! We started up a saltwater tank (20 g) about 2 months ago. We did the live rock and cycling routine and when all was good and up and running, we added our first 'denizen of the deep', Floyd, a wonderful panther grouper with amazing personality and an adherence to Pavlov's Classical Condition and Doug Adam's "so long...and thanks for all the fish!" We love him and we recently added 3 turbo snails for tank cleaning (2 big boys and and a smaller one-the smaller one, recently departed!) They've done an awesome job on the live rock and the algae that was forming on the glass. (And they say good help is soooo hard to find!)
We've been having some issues with 'spiking' levels in the tank-mostly in the nitrites and the nitrates and we did cut back substantially on feeding Floyd- to every other day-instead of every day.
Upon today's water testing, the 'spiking' was up again, so I decided: it's time to get a protein skimmer! We went to ***** (NOT where we got Floyd!) ; we got the Sea Clone 100. Naturally, nothing is collecting in the top portion of this device (we did an 'outside the thank' install).
Now, as I read online, that this skimmer...well...it either works for some folks or...it doesn't work! We're between a live rock and a hard place: we have our hearts set on adding an adorable porcupine puffer ( we DO have immediate plans to upgrade to a 75g tank) and I won't put anything in here until the levels are we're they should be! Floyd has proved himself to be very 'hardy'. The question is: what else can we do? The Sea Clone has been in for just a few hours, literally, and there's no foaming activity. Should we give it some more time...or ....just pack it back up and return to *****? Thanks alot! We are nooobies...but...we are soooo in love with our Floyd (not named after Floyd the barber but Pink Floyd since he seems to float like a pig!)
`Maxxnme

 

[meowzer]

FIRST WELCOME TO SWF
WELL....The first issue I see....is you have a fish that requires a 300G tank in a 20G......I am gonna bet that the tank can not hold this fish...and the water parameters will never be able to be kept in check
as for the skimmer.....I had a few seaclones when I started....NO, They are not the best, but they do work some....you need to wait 1-2 weeks for them to break in
my advice......get rid of the grouper....he will not survive in that tank

 

[snakeblitz33]

Welcome to the site! I hope you enjoy your stay.
Plan on getting a 300+ gallon tank if you want to keep Floyd. It doesnt really take long for groupers to grow big. A 300+ gallon tank can cost you between about 5k to 6k to set up properly and can cost anywhere from $120 to $180 a month to maintain depnding on energy prices in your area and the foods you feed this massive 2' fish.
So you better decide now how much you are in love with Floyd before you decide to get too attached.
The parameters issue might be a few things. 1. Not enough filtration from a mechanical filter. 2. Not enough live rock with enough flow for aerobic respiration.
You should take the skimmer back. Its a new hobbyist first mistake. Heck, even i had one when i first started and never got it working properly. Get your money back and look at octopus brand protein skimmers.
Protein skimmers do not process waste, that is done by bacteria. Skimmers remove dissolved and particulate organic matter before it has a chance to break down into nitrates and phosphates.
Sent from my iPhone. Expect errors dang it. Lol

 

[rickross23]

Welcome to the site! I hope you enjoy your stay.
Plan on getting a 300+ gallon tank if you want to keep Floyd. It doesnt really take long for groupers to grow big. A 300+ gallon tank can cost you between about 5k to 6k to set up properly and can cost anywhere from $120 to $180 a month to maintain depnding on energy prices in your area and the foods you feed this massive 2' fish.
So you better decide now how much you are in love with Floyd before you decide to get too attached.
The parameters issue might be a few things. 1. Not enough filtration from a mechanical filter. 2. Not enough live rock with enough flow for aerobic respiration.
You should take the skimmer back. Its a new hobbyist first mistake. Heck, even i had one when i first started and never got it working properly. Get your money back and look at octopus brand protein skimmers.
Protein skimmers do not process waste, that is done by bacteria. Skimmers remove dissolved and particulate organic matter before it has a chance to break down into nitrates and phosphates.
Sent from my iPhone. Expect errors dang it. LolGrouper needs to go. +1

 

[maxxnme]

First of all, I want to thank all of you who took the time to respond. We pretty much knew from the onset that we would have to replace the 20g with a larger one in a short time, which is what we are doing now. Floyd is about 7" long at this point and from what I understand, they do grow big, but I can't imagine him growing to 30" in such a short time span. We figure that when we get our 75g tank, in about a month or so, the upgrades needed for that tank will be done. Aside from water changes (we don't see the point in adding chemicals to our 20g-yeeeccch!), I just thought that the skimmer-even the one we bought-would do the trick re: nitrates. Interestingly, I did a water check (we use API Master kit) and the niTRITES werre back to normal 0.0ppm as well as the ammonia; ph was normal-niTRATES still damn high.
Again, my deepest thanks for the responses!
Maxxnme

 

[meowzer]

7"

........WOW...I was thinking you had a baby......You really need to get it out of the 20G asap......and YES.....surprisingly...they do growh that fast
so a 75G will really not work for long.....

 

[maxxnme]

Hi! Yeah...Floyd's a good 7" in length. What I find sooo confusing is, when we went into our local LFS, we did a great deal of research (about 4 years worth off and on) on what we wanted to do-tankwise and even more research into the critters! Seems that everything I read and others that I spoke with, all said that panther groupers are great 'beginner hobbyist' fish: very hardy, able to cope with subtle changes in water, very social (which Floyd is),etc Somehow, I find it hard to believe that all or most beginner hobbyists would start out with a 300g tank and a $5-$6,000 investment. It is true that our LFS said we might want to consider a larger tank-(we originally wanted a snowflake-but while we were cycling, he got out of his tank at the store!) but our budget was what it was.
I can understand the nitrate levels being so high since his waste products exceed what the tank can handle, and I've read and heard that the ideal tank for him is anywhere between 100-125 gallon. Now, I understand that 300g is more like it! It's sooo confusing! Arrrggghhhh....thanks for your advice and feedback.
Maxxnme

 

[rickross23]

Hi! Yeah...Floyd's a good 7" in length. What I find sooo confusing is, when we went into our local LFS, we did a great deal of research (about 4 years worth off and on) on what we wanted to do-tankwise and even more research into the critters! Seems that everything I read and others that I spoke with, all said that panther groupers are great 'beginner hobbyist' fish: very hardy, able to cope with subtle changes in water, very social (which Floyd is),etc Somehow, I find it hard to believe that all or most beginner hobbyists would start out with a 300g tank and a $5-$6,000 investment. It is true that our LFS said we might want to consider a larger tank-(we originally wanted a snowflake-but while we were cycling, he got out of his tank at the store!) but our budget was what it was.
 I can understand the nitrate levels being so high since his waste products exceed what the tank can handle, and I've read and heard that the ideal tank for him is anywhere between 100-125 gallon. Now, I understand that 300g is more like it! It's sooo confusing! Arrrggghhhh....thanks for your advice and feedback.
Maxxnme
 
Who said 100-125? A fish business? They need a HUGE tank.

 

[meowzer]

It is best to do your own research rather then listen to your lfs....most (NOT ALL) are looking for the sale......remember....if you put a fish in your tank that is not adequate.....the fish will eventually die....and then you go back to them and buy more
we here.....have nothing to gain except the satisfaction of helping someone provide the most adequate environment possible....making the hobby more enjoyable for you...and YES.....more comfortable for the fish

 

[geridoc]

And...by the way, forget the puffer in your 20 - they grow big, too- about a foot long. IMHO, nothing smaller than a 125 will do for such a fish, and that's probably crowding it. You can find plenty of personable fish for your planned 75 - a flame hawkfish comes to mind. Good luck!

 

[maxxnme]

Hi all and thanks for the continued feedback! Deeply appreciate ALL the feedback!

1) Re: 100-125 tank:It wasn't so much the local LFS: I've read countless websites devoted to aquatic life: just about EVERY SITE suggested nothing less than a 100-125 g tank, which is what we're working on now or rather will be purchasing within the next couple of weeks. Given ample time for curing/cycling, I think, we should be okay with transferring Floyd. If it turns out. I'm convinced the high niTRATES is due to his waste product(s) given the small tank; I did a check on our local tap water here in Vancouver,WA. and coming from the hot tub industry, I know a thing or 2 about water testing. Our nitrates out of the tap are between 10-20ppm; nitrites @ 0ppm as well as ammonia. pH not an issue.
I realize that the purchasing of the Seaclone 100 was a waste (still not developing any foam).
Floyd...a real trooper! I never ever thought in a million years I could develop an affinity, an affection for a...fish! He reminds me of a puppy: he does his 'happy dance' whenever we walk into the room and enjoys watching us watching him. Never thought a fish could be so...social! Loves to be hand fed and occasional likes to splash us-so we believe he has a playful streak in him!
Give him up? Not likely!
Thanks to all-
Maxxnme

 

[maxxnme]

I realize that...thank you!

 

[snakeblitz33]

A 125 would hold him for a year or two, maybe. It depends how much you feed him. Feeding him less will make him grow slower.
I am glad you like your pet. Thats the name of the game.

 

[maxxnme]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/391944/a-little-help-and-advice#post_3478431
And...by the way, forget the puffer in your 20 - they grow big, too- about a foot long. IMHO, nothing smaller than a 125 will do for such a fish, and that's probably crowding it. You can find plenty of personable fish for your planned 75 - a flame hawkfish comes to mind. Good luck!
Hi and thank you! Just took a look at some vids on this critter! Looks way too cool! Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[maxxnme]

Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/391944/a-little-help-and-advice#post_3478294
It is best to do your own research rather then listen to your lfs....most (NOT ALL) are looking for the sale......remember....if you put a fish in your tank that is not adequate.....the fish will eventually die....and then you go back to them and buy more
we here.....have nothing to gain except the satisfaction of helping someone provide the most adequate environment possible....making the hobby more enjoyable for you...and YES.....more comfortable for the fish
I realize that...thank you!

 

[maxxnme]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/391944/a-little-help-and-advice#post_3478431
And...by the way, forget the puffer in your 20 - they grow big, too- about a foot long. IMHO, nothing smaller than a 125 will do for such a fish, and that's probably crowding it. You can find plenty of personable fish for your planned 75 - a flame hawkfish comes to mind. Good luck!
You're kidding??? They really grow to be THAT big? LOL...!Geez: a 1 foot long Porcupine puffer! But they're soooo adorable! Look like aliens from a Spielberg movie!

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxxnme http:///t/391944/a-little-help-and-advice#post_3478566
You're kidding??? They really grow to be THAT big? LOL...!Geez: a 1 foot long Porcupine puffer! But they're soooo adorable! Look like aliens from a Spielberg movie!

Not only do they get large, but they have some special requirements. They have a hard beak that grows throughout life, and needs to be ground down. This is done by offering them crustaceans to eat - thereby wearing down the beak. I agree, they are adorable. We had one many years ago, and still remember it very fondly.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Yup. Going down to the beach and catching crabs is in your near future! Or you could just pay for a crab dinner twice a week.

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Floyd...a real trooper! I never ever thought in a million years I could develop an affinity, an affection for a...fish! He reminds me of a puppy: he does his 'happy dance' whenever we walk into the room and enjoys watching us watching him. Never thought a fish could be so...social! Loves to be hand fed and occasional likes to splash us-so we believe he has a playful streak in him!
Give him up? Not likely!
It is so very good to see someone new at the hobby so happy with their fish. Sounds like you would not give him up for the world. I admire your dedication.
I think with the 125g up grade you can get a year or two like Snake said. Make sure it is a 6' tank. Just remember that everyone is saying a larger tank cause that is what the fish needs. So if you care about him start planning on the next upgrade after the 125g. That being said, your 300g tank is gonna look sweet!!!!

 

[maxxnme]

Thank you for such a kind and encouraging note! Sorry for the delay: just got your response this AM. Okay...due to mostly room/space considerations, we have to go for the 125gallon. What suggestions/recommendations would you have for components i.e.pump, filtration, do we NEED a sump or is it suggested? Our protein skimmer SEACLONE 100 went out yesterday and we knew from the onset that it was a piece o' junk although it did work pretty well! It helped tremendously in getting our nitrates-nitrites to where they should. Any suggestions are deeply appreciated and will be taken to heart! Many thanks!
~Maxxnme/Michael