Adding Supliments?

cadbury

Member
I have been doing a lot of research through numeroues sites with people adding just about no additives or suppliments to their reef tanks other than buffer when needed? I'm just getting mine started with my 180 and I been getting alot of discrepencies so I wanted to get some advice from you fellow reefers?
 
A

alti

Guest
water changes should replace most of the trace elements that the corals are consuming. there are some people that go for months without a water change, so dosing trace elements is a necessity. the best advise i can give you is don't dose anything unless you know it is missing.
 
I would have to agree with alti but I do want to go a bit farther and say that depending on what you have in your tank there are certain things that you should add on a regular basis if they are being depleated. I have been adding calcium, and a few coral foods that I think have done wonders for my tank. So I do think that water changes will do most of what you want but there are still a few things that need to be added as they are used on a regular basis.
 

cadbury

Member
So salty, what size tank do you have and what do you have in it? I have a friend that has 550 gallon with some beautiful fish and alot of hard corals with a few softies and he absolutely adds nothing other than buffer when needed. Its been running for 3 years with no problems and corals are just growing great and fast!!!!
 
I have a 55 gallon right now because I am renting and it is a pain in the ars to move my 250. I have two bubble corals, two leather corals quite a few finger leathers various shrooms and abunch of star poylups. I also have a few hitchhikers and the extras that come along with a reef tank. The main reason that I have been adding suppliments is because I have a buddy that has the most amazing tank that I have ever seen and I am copying what he is adding.
 

broomer5

Active Member
cadbury,
You will continue to find a lot of contradicting information on adding supplements to a reef tank.
It's probably one of the more debated and confusing topics out there.
You asked for advise - I'll just give you my opinion and thoughts - okay.
If someone can name all the 15-20 or so trace elements, list their concentrations in normal sea level, list their concentrations in mixed saltwater of any popular brand, list each tank inhabitants level of "need" for these trace elements - and give me a detailed dosage routine that is supported by their own experience or research - I'll listen to them.
Otherwise - I feel this entire trace element issue is mearly a way to separate me from my money.
Most every saltmix on the market has much GREATER levels of these "trace" elements - much more than natural sea water.
Were talking parts per billion in the ocean. Parts Per Billion.
Mixing up some synthetic seawater will give you so much more than what is necessary - that I don't waste my money nor do I pollute my tank with these "bottled" wonders.
Feeding the reef with good quality foods, meaty foods from the sea, including the entire meaty animal, head, body and tail - will more than take care of these parts per billion trace elements that so many feel are a must. Do I know this for a fact - nope.
Do I feel that it's a natural way to replenish things that may become somewhat depleted in the reef tank - yep.
Do I feel that I will overdose these amounts of trace or transition elements by "feeding" - no way.
Can I easily ... very easily overdose a reef tank with an unneccessary compound or lethal mixed chemical "cocktail" - the answer is yes. It's very easy to O.D. the tank - because most folks are not TESTING for this stuff.
They just blindly read the bottle, do a little math in their heads - and go pouring in stuff. Normally just a little tad more to be on the safe side - right ......... wrong.
The little tad more is normally on the unsafe side in my opinion.
The only thing I manage is the pH, the alkalinity and the calcium.
These levels are significant in natural seawater - and they play against each other in the saltwater chemistry.
I also add small amounts of iodine occassionally. Few drops on Saturday to a 75 reef tank.
Water changes - in my unprofessional opinion - are the key to maintaining all the other levels that may or may not be necessary for the corals and fish that I keep.
The rest - all those bottles of stuff you see - all those "you need to add this and that and some more of this" stuff ........... is not necessary in my reef tank. Do you realize just how many bottles of additives and supplements you could aquire - if you believed all the marketing hype.
Saltmix - Instant Ocean for that matter, using very pure freshwater, and some form of adjusting/maintaining alk, calcium and pH - is the ticket for me.
I test for pH, calcium and alkalinity.
Occassionaly phosphates but not too much anymore.
Hardly ever for ammonia/nitrite - but do test for nitrate now and then too.
Specific Gravity - keep the salinity stable.
Temperature - try to keep the tank temp somewhat stable.
That's about it.
Do monthly water changes and general maintenacne, yank caulerpa each month, feed the tank, and sit back and enjoy.
Saltwater ...
Keep it simple.
Keep it clean.
Keep it moving.
Keep it refreshed
Keep it balanced.
Keep it stable.
 
The only real supplements that he adds to his tank are reef advantage calcium - seachem, Marine buffer - seachem and Reef builder - seachem. All of the other things he adds are basically food. He adds Coral Grower - Salifert, Reef plus - seachem (amino acids and a few trace elements) and I think that is it. the only things that are not food have to do with the wonderful balance between calcium alkalinity and PH.
 

fishfreek

Active Member
Boomer, you summed it up very well! :D I don't add anything but buffer, calcium and occasional phytoplankton to my system. I in addition, i feed corals and fish regularly & preform a water change every 3-4 weeks, this will provide any suppliment additions needed.
 

cadbury

Member
I just want to thank everyone for their input, it all actually makes sense. To give you a little back ground, I have a 180 set-up with an Eco-system, I actually spoke to the guy from Ecosytem last night for about an hour, he pretty much told me the same thing thet you all told me, he said there in no better replacement for trace elements other than a water change periodically. He said if its something you can't drink yourself first not to put it in. Like you all said he just pays attention to his ph mostly. He was'nt even trying to pass his Ecosystem products on me, he said that they were'nt necessary. The only product he endorsed was his Garlic elixor! Thanks again all!!!!
 

eng50

Member
Just as another view...www.garf.org see the "bullet proof reef" tab...they sell no additives and are non profit. I use thier system and am quite pleased with the results..and it seems to go along with most here, ie the Ca, Alk and PH adjustments...IME
 

bigocubed

New Member
Boomer really summed it up. I started my tank trying to mimic what a friend of mine was doing with a pretty successful tank. He goes without doing water changes and adds all the various trace elements and more.
After a while of struggling with this method of having readings all over the place, I went to the basics of doing water changes and just monitor Specific Gravity, Alkalinity and Calcium and the tank has shown a dramatic improvement. My Frog Spawn is fully open and the Candy Canes look really good...but the one thing that has given me real clue of improvement has been my Leather.
I must add reading these posts have really helped a great deal.
 

laneki

Member
i personally do add minerals to my tank each week and feel that it is important to maintain healthy corals. i use calcium, tech 1 and strontium once a week. some hobbyists may not feel it is needed but i don't mind spending $26 every few months. i did notice a difference when i started using these supplements and have been doing it for 4 yrs...
 

cadbury

Member
Well, I'm with you eng50, I'm going to try Garf's approach, the worst that could happen is that I'll notice things are'nt doing well and than add supplements? There seems to be about a 50/50 on this, its not about the money for the supplements but the fact of putting so much, or many foreign chemicals into a aquarium to try to make it natural just does'nt make sense? I'll be the gunei pig and try the natural way, a lot of you seem to have great success with it!
 

laneki

Member
sorry to bring this thread back again but i don't understand how adding minerals that are found in the ocean are to be considered foreign chemicals and dangerous to your tank if done correctly. i do weekly tests on my reef tank to make sure that all readings are in the range that they need to be.
i noticed broomer5 is passionate about not adding any unnecessary elements to an aquarium but some (i.e. coralife calcium) aid in the growth of hard and soft corals, as well as, inverts. i bought a rock in april with about 17 individual pumping xenia polyps and now have approximately 180 individual polyps, in addition i have given close to 30 to friends. i do attribute part of their success to iodine (tech I).
it is all in personal opinion though...
 

broomer5

Active Member
laneki,
Allow me to rephrase what I typed.
I'll quote it for added clairity.
The only thing I manage is the pH, the alkalinity and the calcium.

These levels are significant in natural seawater - and they play against each other in the saltwater chemistry.

I also add small amounts of iodine occassionally

Most every saltmix on the market has much GREATER levels of these "trace" elements - much more than natural sea water.
I am NOT against adding necessary trace elements or minerals to a reef tank. As a matter of fact - it's essential that one does so on a regular basis.
I AM against adding anything to a reef tank's tankwater that is normally found in properly mixed saltmix and pure water - that is already in excess of what is in natural sea water.
 

cadbury

Member
So broomer, to put this in laiments terms: if I were to copy your method, could you give me a list in a typical week or month what you do or add to your aquarium? Sorry for all these questions, but being new to the reef aspect of this I really like to get a good balance, you know how it is to get staggard information? Thanks.
 

laneki

Member
broomer5~
i apologize for the confusion. i was not speaking specifically about what you stated. you did seem passionate about what you add to your tank, as i hope everyone is. the statement i made was an attempt to let someone new to reef tanks know that it does aid in the health of certain specimens because the overall feeling in this post seemed to be that supplements are not necessary to maintain a healthy reef.
i just wanted to add my $.02 as it can be confusing.
 

broomer5

Active Member
cadbury
I can give you details of what I do ~ but I would like to first stress that this is BY NO MEANS the "right" way for everyone - nor would it be considered appropriate for every tank.
As we all know, each tank is different.
Each person's marine tank is unique to them.
Most all tankwater will still follows the same "rules" and most tank systems will behave or respond to different treatments - according to these rules.
That being said - and providing you approach your own tank with this in mind - here's what I do & here's what I add.
Start out using RO/DI water - aerated overnight with powerhead/heater.
Use Instant Ocean brand sea salt mix - and get the salinity where you want it. I use a refractometer and like to keep the reef tank at 1.026 at 80 degrees F. This is what I mix the new saltwater up to first. I actually had a 50 gallon, and a 20 gallon rubbermaid container with saltwater mixed and aerated for a couple days. This is how I filled the 75 gallon tank back in December last year, when I switched over from a 55 w/CC to the new 75 w/DSB.
Fill the tank with aerated Instant Ocean saltwater.
Normally it mixes up to around
Calcium = 375
Alkalinity = 3.2 meq/L
pH = 8.2 / 8.3
Approximate numbers - but fairly repeatable.
In the first few months after cycle is done - test the 3 above parameters each Saturday. Write down what the levels are in a log book.
Date/Time/Level
Do freshwater RO/DI top offs each day to maintain salinity, and as always - maintain steady temperature.
You may or may not see the numbers swing much - or you may.
All depends on what's in the tank, how it's set up, water circulation, etc. .....
Do a water change with new saltwater. I do around 20% water changes each month. 15 gallons for a 75 reef tank.
Just about every 4th Saturday morning I do the water change.
Then after having a couple few months or so of information from the test kits - I look at the recent history and try to figure out what's happening in there.
Water changes by themselves will show increases in alk & calcium. Not a whole lot though - but the swings are apparent.
As far as additives and a schedule, I prefer to use dry powdered pH buffer, alk builders and calcium. I've tried some of the two-part systems like ESV B-Ionic before as well.
They're easy to use -and worked okay.
I just prefer to use the powdered ones more.
I add at least a gallon a day RO/DI water for evaporation. Mixing the powder in the RO/DI water works well for me and I like the results. I do NOT mix additives to every top off though.
Typical week/month as follows;
Week 1
Sunday - heavy feeding of corals - meaty foods and Coral Heaven.
Monday - do nothing but top off with freshwater.
Tuesday - mix 1 teaspoon of Seachem's Reef Builder alkalinity/carbonate product to 1 gallon of RO/DI water and use as top off.
Wednesday - do nothing but top off and feed some corals and fish lightly.
Thursday - mix 2 teaspoons of Seachem's Reef Advantage Calcium product to 1 gallon of freshwater and use as top off.
Friday - do nothing but top off and feed tank lightly.
Saturday - Test water and if necessary mix 2 teaspoons of Seachem's Marine Buffer in 1 gallon of RO/DI top off water to help maintain pH. In the evening - a few drops of iodine into the sump.
Week 2
Same
Week 3
Same
Week 4
Same except this Saturday - perform the 20% water change.
Occassionally I drip kalkwasser at night. Not everynight. As a matter of fact - once my phosphates dropped down to where they did not register on the test kit anymore - I only dose kalk several times a month. Sporadic at best.
Sunday's the tank gets a good feeding, mix of krill, squid, silversides, mysis shrimp, store bought whole body raw shrimp chopped up and the occassionaly bring shrimp cube.
The anemone eats all raw shrimp parts, as do the larger corals that have a mouth. Fish get tiny meaty bits that are leftovers.
Flake - yeah I have it and toss a pinch in now and then on feeding days to vary the diet. But I don't use a lot of flake foods and I don't keep all these frozen foods in the freezer all the time. When I need some I run to LFS and pick up whatever I didn't buy last time.
Do I do this routine religously every month - ain't no way.
Do I miss a water change and postpone it a week or two sometimes - yeah it happens quite often. I've gone two months without water change and everything was fine.
Do I alter the amounts of additives - sometimes, but not by much.
It all depends on the test kit results - and what I've written down AND the general appearance of the tank and corals.
Many times there are signs that something needs attention in the tank. Be it an increase in algae, or a coral looks funny or I make changes to the water circulation or lighting. Whenever I make a large change, including additions to the tanks creatures - I test for nitrogen compounds. Once in a while - every few months or so I check for phosphates.
I have Oxygen and Iodine test kits too - but hardly ever use them.
When I installed the refugium with caulerpa - I tested the nitrate and phosphate a lot. Every week there for awhile.
It took about 10-12 weeks before I noticed the nitrate falling.
I'm pretty sure it fell due to the deep sandbed becoming functional, the macro algae beginning to grow and harvest, and the fact that I only kept 5 small fish in the 75.
I'm now down to 3 fish in the 75 - and that's the way it will stay.
Low fish bioload = better reef water quailty for the corals.
No protein skimmer anymore either, and have removed some sponge prefilters that I once used.
The thing to remember is not to follow other's routine and habits - but to develop your own.
Your tank is not the same as mine.
My tank is not the same as any other.
Your tank is unique to you ~ your conditions are unique too.
Your routine therefore should be unique as well.
Using other's routine as guideline is fine - but the actual dosages and time you add them should be adjusted to meet your tank requirements. This is the most important thing about all of this stuff.
There are so many ways to do it, so many factors involved such as different types of equipment, reactors, skimmers, additives, tank bio loads, water circualtion, temperatures, salinity, saltmixes, water changes, freshwater sources, gas exchange rates, tank sizes, inverts and janitors, living algaes and refugiums, lighting arrangements and the list goes on and on.
The absolute key to success in my opinion - is to find out where you are at first - establish some type of baseline to work from - develop the maintenance routine that works best for you and your tankwater/creatures ......... and stick to it.
That's about all I got to say about this ;)
 

broomer5

Active Member
laneki
That's cool ! ;) No apology needed ~ but thank you.
Thanks for reminding us about the original thread concept.
 
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