All fish are dead?
- Thread starter jackman
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greatfullreefer
Active Member
Insufficient gas exchange because of the film, not enough oxygen in the water is my guess.
greatfullreefer
Active Member
A:- Get a protein skimmer
B:- direct a power head toward the surface or create some kind of surface movement.
B:- direct a power head toward the surface or create some kind of surface movement.
petem
Member
I agree with Greatfullreefer. Get those two items. I also went through a major loss. I attributed mine to too many fish in at once. I foolishly thought my tank had cycled with only LS. Then I when I was at the LFS, I was like a kid in a candy store, "Gimme that one", I'll take one of those, and two of those" etc. .. I also didnt have a QT set up. Believe me, I got one right away after that fiasco.
Also, the water you used when you changed it, was it Tap water? If yes, did you add a dechlorinator? one that removes Chloramines as well??
Do you use RO/DI water? if yes, was it possible it was contaminated by anything near the storage tank?
It happened to me. I went to get some RO/DI water, and I find, two mop buckets that the cleaning lady uses right on top of my RO water storage bin. Even though the cover was on, I didnt take any chances.....I dumped the whole thing...about 20 gallons, then got a new storage bin, and made new water.
For what it's worth...I'm sorry for your loss as well.
Also, the water you used when you changed it, was it Tap water? If yes, did you add a dechlorinator? one that removes Chloramines as well??
Do you use RO/DI water? if yes, was it possible it was contaminated by anything near the storage tank?
It happened to me. I went to get some RO/DI water, and I find, two mop buckets that the cleaning lady uses right on top of my RO water storage bin. Even though the cover was on, I didnt take any chances.....I dumped the whole thing...about 20 gallons, then got a new storage bin, and made new water.
For what it's worth...I'm sorry for your loss as well.
sly
Active Member
Originally posted by kl8n
You could always try spending the night in your tank and see how you feel in the morning.
If that seems odd to you or you're worried about the breathing obstacle, you could always put a dog or maybe a hamster in the tank over night.
If in the morning you or any more of your pets are dead it would be safe to assume that you have your own transparent chamber 'O' death.
You can get upset or just cut your losses and start a euthanization clinic. You already have the pet-b-gone slaughter 2000 chamber at your disposal.
You ar3 hilarious!! :hilarious
:jumping:
birdy
Active Member
I am not disagreeing that poor oxygenation could have been the cause, but many tanks that I have run without an overflow had the film on top without any adverse effect so I wouldn't say without a doubt that is the cause.
You haven't yet answered my earlier questions about the water change and the subsequent die-off.
You haven't yet answered my earlier questions about the water change and the subsequent die-off.
shawnhardy
Member
I think the water change is the key. People always have these massive die offs and have no idea why but then they reveal that they did a very large water change.
Did you test the pH and the salinity of the water before the change? Did you heat the water to your tank temperature before the change?
Sorry for your loss, but I believe that large water changes like that should only be done in extreme emergencies. The film did not seem like such an emergency. This is what I believe the cause to be. Anyone agree?
Did you test the pH and the salinity of the water before the change? Did you heat the water to your tank temperature before the change?
Sorry for your loss, but I believe that large water changes like that should only be done in extreme emergencies. The film did not seem like such an emergency. This is what I believe the cause to be. Anyone agree?
birdy
Active Member
That is why I was asking the questions about the water change, I thought that sounded fishy also.
How long did you let the water age, did you match the salinity and temp. A 50% water change is generally too much unless something is very very wrong with the tank, generally 10-15% is recommended.
How long did you let the water age, did you match the salinity and temp. A 50% water change is generally too much unless something is very very wrong with the tank, generally 10-15% is recommended.
jackman
Member
If you would of saw the film on the top you might of panicked like I did, IT WAS NASTY, and Yes the water had the same salinity and temp was the same...... True I never have done such a larger water change, but like I said I panicked and payed for it the next day.......
Well I spent all wkend cleaning and rinsing and rinsing and rinsing the tank........
I have it running this morning and next wk picking up live rock and live sand, Hope this time everything works out and maybe next time, I will run to the computer instead of the changing of water.....
Thanks for the helpful info...
Like I said before this site :happy:
Jackman
Well I spent all wkend cleaning and rinsing and rinsing and rinsing the tank........
I have it running this morning and next wk picking up live rock and live sand, Hope this time everything works out and maybe next time, I will run to the computer instead of the changing of water.....
Thanks for the helpful info...
Like I said before this site :happy:
Jackman
birdy
Active Member
The film on top of the water is normal, unless you have an overflow, or a prefilter on your skimmer that skims the top of the water. without those you will almost always have some kind of slick on the surface of the water (pointing a powerhead at the surface helps but doesn't solve the problem).
Also you still did not say how long you let the water age for your water change, if you didn't let it age for at least 24hrs with circulation and heater, then that could be why all your fish died. Just trying to figure out why they died so it doesn't happen to you again.
Also you still did not say how long you let the water age for your water change, if you didn't let it age for at least 24hrs with circulation and heater, then that could be why all your fish died. Just trying to figure out why they died so it doesn't happen to you again.
sly
Active Member
I've done more than 90% water changes before with no problem. I removed my fish and drained the water down to the level of my LR. Then I addeded some mixed water back to raise the level and then drained it again, then added more water back and drained again... and so on...
Doing it this way removes more polutants than just a water change alone. I had 40ppm nitrates and after the change I had maybe 5ppm. When I let the tank run for a few days the nitrates went to 0 and have been that way for 5 months now.
Unless you did something wrong like not removing your fish (because stirred up sediment gets in the gills) or not mixing your water good enough, you may have had something else kill your fish. Maybe the water change wasn't enough. Maybe all you did was break loose some toxic material that was deep in your substrate when you poured in the new water. But you didn't change enough to actually dilute the toxic goo to the point where it couldn't harm your fish.
Doing it this way removes more polutants than just a water change alone. I had 40ppm nitrates and after the change I had maybe 5ppm. When I let the tank run for a few days the nitrates went to 0 and have been that way for 5 months now.
Unless you did something wrong like not removing your fish (because stirred up sediment gets in the gills) or not mixing your water good enough, you may have had something else kill your fish. Maybe the water change wasn't enough. Maybe all you did was break loose some toxic material that was deep in your substrate when you poured in the new water. But you didn't change enough to actually dilute the toxic goo to the point where it couldn't harm your fish.
sly
Active Member
To answer you question above, I actually prefer CC, but you have to keep it shallow. To me a DSB works well for awhile at removing nitrates until something happens. Either someone will stir the DSB and break the cycle, causing nitrates to go through the roof, or stuff will build up within the sand over time and eventually lead to a tank crash from the decomposing detrius under the bed. A DSB has to be the correct depth to work properly. If it's too shallow, you will get highly oxygenated sand and therefore not grow the bacteria that are necessary to remove nitrate. If the DSB is too deep then you will have areas that are totally oxygen starved and then you will have a different type of bacteria form that releases toxic hydrogen sulfide in the tank. The trick is to have LOW oxygen areas within the bed so that you grow the correct type of bacteria. While 4inches depth is a good rule, it really depends on how much water flow and dissolved oxygen are in your tank. Since you don't have a skimmer you may need a shallower bed to be effective (less dissolved oxygen in the water means shallower bed in order to avoid oxygen starved zones). Also if you don't have power heads blowing water across the bed you will have less oxygen transfering into the bed as well since blowing water across exposes the bed to dissolved oxygen more than stagnant, still water.
I like the CC better because for one, I think it looks better. But, instead of using the substrate to remove nitrates, etc. from the water, I like to rely more on LR and macro algae in the tank. These are less likely to crash than a DSB and are very efficient at removing nitrate from the water, while a DSB will actually displace much of the tank's water with sand, effectively giving you a smaller tank with less filtering capacity.
Your CC should only be for decoration...about 1 inch deep. Stir it about once a week or so to break up ditrius so that it can be removed by your filter system. Your LR will remove the other junk from the water. Since CC is denser than sand, your water will clear up faster after you stir it than sand will. Also you SHOULD stir CC while you CAN'T stir a DSB. Stirring breaks up the junk that collects in the tank that normal bacteria don't remove; stuff that will eventually cause poison in the tank.
I like the CC better because for one, I think it looks better. But, instead of using the substrate to remove nitrates, etc. from the water, I like to rely more on LR and macro algae in the tank. These are less likely to crash than a DSB and are very efficient at removing nitrate from the water, while a DSB will actually displace much of the tank's water with sand, effectively giving you a smaller tank with less filtering capacity.
Your CC should only be for decoration...about 1 inch deep. Stir it about once a week or so to break up ditrius so that it can be removed by your filter system. Your LR will remove the other junk from the water. Since CC is denser than sand, your water will clear up faster after you stir it than sand will. Also you SHOULD stir CC while you CAN'T stir a DSB. Stirring breaks up the junk that collects in the tank that normal bacteria don't remove; stuff that will eventually cause poison in the tank.
sly
Active Member
Originally posted by Jackman
So if I have Live sand in the tank how do you clean it without disturbing the bacteria?
When you clean it, LIGHTLY vacuum the surface to remove any collected debris. Some people have had a DSB successfully for a few years but in the long run, they will eventually have to remove it and start over because of the junk that collects in the bottom. One other thing that helps is to get a "burrowing" clean up crew. This includes wrasses that sift through the sand. Although some wrasses can sift too much and also crash a DSB.
