An Interesting Peice of Livestock

[grumpygils]

Originally Posted by skiutah
I am from Utah and I fly all over California every week. Yesterday, I was in San Clemente at a beach and I was talking to some local teenagers. We got talking and I ended up finding out they all were into Salt Water Fish Tanks big time. One of the kids mentioned he had a sea turtle in his tank. I was like.... uh... do you realize that is illegal? I didn't really believe the kid, so he walked me up to his house, off the shore of the beach and low and behold! A Sea Turtle! He had a 500 gallon tank and has had the turtle for 5 and a half years!! The kids father told me you can buy them for 10K from a local guy, who catches and breeds them, from somewhere up the coast. I know all these guys could get into HUGE trouble, but I thought it was SSSOOOO interesting to see a wild sea turtle in someones home. I actually ended up calling the "sea turtle preseravation society" last night to report the incident. They told me they were going to do some heavy investigating. I know the kids had no intention of hurting the turtle, but it was still wrong. Just a little story I thought I would share with you guys.

I would of definetely given them the courtesy of a "headsup" before I squealed on them. The difference in a potential (large) fine is substantail from those who are discovered and those who are "self" reported! Atleast they would then have the option.
Mc

 

[jcrim]

Originally Posted by mitzel
It might just be my guess but a bit of jeliousness surely had something to do with your actions.
Good point... raises the question of whether your motives were as altruistic as you represent here. Did you research or have knowledge of this species to see if it was being mistreated? If you had no idea whether this turtle was being kept in an unsuitable environment and still reported this than I agree with mitzel. On the other hand, if you had specific info that this animal was being abused, then your actions were truly in its best interests.
JMO

 

[jcrim]

On another note, I didn't know these guys would captive breed. Makes me wonder if they could be bred by professionals and reintroduced into the wild to increase the numbers.

 

[celacanthr]

ok, the two smallest species of sea turtle, are the Olive ridley, and kemp's ridley. Kemp's ridely bieng the smallest at two feet. But they do not occur around cali.
Olive ridely have been found in south west US, but these sitings are anything but common.
Flatbacks, are found ONLY in australia.
Green sea turtles ARE found in the pacific (along with most waters)
Loggerheads are only found in the atlantic
hawksbill found outside of the area between new jersey, and SC, are very very few, and very far between.
So that basically leaves us with either the olive ridley, or the Green sea turtle.
The olive ridley is approx. 2 1/2 feet long (and have a fairly wide shell). they are very active. They dive to deep waters often. I very much doubt that a 500 gallon offers enough space for all of this at the same time.
The green sea turtle is OFFICIALLY endangered, and although it defianantly is too big for a 500 gallon tank (3.7 feet long with the same kinda lifestyle as the olive),this is a VERY big no-no to take an endangered organism from its habitat.
As for the CB. I doubt that this person would hhave a large enough system to keep 2+ sea turtles, without any authority noticing. And cb, and then re-introducing would be difficult, because if you weened the baby sea turtle onto readily available non-live foods, then when it was time to release them (and for this to be effective, you would have to reintroduce them at a fairly late stage, since most young sea turtles are killed) they would probably be dependent.

 

[skiutah]

If I would have lived down there and had the time to research and find out who the kid got the turtle from, I would have done that. I was - the beach for 2 hours and then headed to the airport to come back home. I really didn't have much of a choice. As for the kid, he was about 15 or 16.

 

[drea]

idk...... there really is no right or wrong answer here i guess... just personal opinions, so merry xmas!

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by skiutah
If I would have lived down there and had the time to research and find out who the kid got the turtle from, I would have done that. I was - the beach for 2 hours and then headed to the airport to come back home. I really didn't have much of a choice. As for the kid, he was about 15 or 16.
You absolutely did the right thing... all of the people being critical need to read Celacanth's thread. He is spot on.
Sea Turtles get huge. They are not, by any means, a pet. Most species are endangered.
The story about the guy "breeding them in captivity" is crap. For one thing, scientists still don't have any idea how the imprinting process works. Turtles swim to the beach WHERE THEY WERE BORN to lay their eggs.... so tell me how a breeder is pulling off this stunt? Quite simply; he's not. He is either robbing nests (illegal) or catching young in the wild (also illegal).
Turtles live in excess of 100 years. 5 1/2 is hardly a success story.
$10,000 for a turtle and all he can buy it is a 500 gallon tank? Come on...
If the owner cared about the pet he wouldn't have it in such an improper environment.
I'd also like to point out how little is actually known about Sea Turtles. Not nearly enough is known to keep them as "pets". All you have to do is look at the failures of the captive "catch and release" programs to see that Biologists are behind the 8 ball in bringing back many of these reptiles.
Foks here need to stop criticizing someone for doing the proper, ethical, and right thing. If you want to see a Turtle go divng or snorkeling...

 

[dea bad lt]

Do not mess with Karma! I hope you remember this incident skiutah when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[madman133]

well all i have left to say is whats done is done so Merry Christmas Everyone!

 

[2eyepatchs]

Spending big money doesn't over-ride the fact that it is illegal. 10k to some is like the rerst of us going to the lfs and paying $49 for a new frag. Just my opinion.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by DEA Bad Lt
Do not mess with Karma! I hope you remember this incident skiutah when the shoe is on the other foot.

So, you're saying that he shouldn't have reported animal abuse to the proper authorities... that will get you some great "karma". Of course, if you were reincarnated as a sea turtle then...

 

[watertight]

I'm just curious - what will happen to the turtle now? Will it be released to the wild, and if so, will it survive? Or will it be kept in another large tank at a public aquarium or something?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by watertight
I'm just curious - what will happen to the turtle now? Will it be released to the wild, and if so, will it survive? Or will it be kept in another large tank at a public aquarium or something?
It won't survive in the wild. I'm sure it will go to a public aquarium or research facility.

 

[dea bad lt]

I'm not saying what he should or should not do. That is a personal dilemma. All I'm saying is that if and when the shoe is on the other foot, to remember the day he became a concerned citizen.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by DEA Bad Lt
I'm not saying what he should or should not do. That is a personal dilemma. All I'm saying is that if and when the shoe is on the other foot, to remember the day he became a concerned citizen.
But that's the point... when is abusing animals ever ok? It's not a "personal dilemma". There is a right thing and a wrong thing to do here.
We're not arguing over the size tank a Tang needs here. We're talking about a sea turtle! Measure out a 500 gallon tank on your floor... now draw a mock up of a turtle... flippers spread out so make it 3 feet by 2 feet.. See how absurd that is?
I'll just let everyone here know right now.. Don't ever invite me over to your house if you have an orangutan in your closet, a Manatee in your spa, a dolphin is your swimming pool, or a sea turtle in a tiny aquarium...

 

[new25tank]

This is not a personal decision to turn someone in or not, that is crazy! These people are breaking the law and injuring the wild population of an endangered species. I seriously doubt that the teenager forked over the 10K to purchase the turtle and the tank. By seeing his father do that he is learning what- that if you have enough money that you can buy anything (and I am not just talking about animals here) and basically do what you want even if it is illegal. I have not been doing SW for very long (although have kept non-endangered aquatic and land animals for 25 years) but anyone can figure out that keeping a sea turtle in a 500 gallon aquarium is not right and does not constitute good animal husbandry.
I am sure that reporting the teenager was a difficult decision, but because you respect animals as individuals and beautiful creatures that deserve a good quality of life I just know that you made the right decision. Happy Holidays!

 

[jeffrat]

What is next for this guy, maybe a marine mammal? That area of Cal. you can see lots of Marine Mammals on the beach it would be very easy for him to pick up a juvenile seal or sea lion take it home and and try to keep it. It is just luck that the turttle is still alive, and hopefully the authorities will find the collector who is profiting by destroying the enviroment and keeping these animals in unfit conditions. This turttle is going to out grow that tank, and then I am sure they will release it where it will be unable to catch live fish in the open ocean and starve.

 

[stanlalee]

great guy you are befriending a kid who's kind enough to allow you in his home because you think it will be "so cool" to see his captive sea turtle and after you get your thrills run home and call the authorities. I could see if he told you and you were pissed and turned him in but that aint what you did. He should have left you and shut his trap when you said its illegal. I dont advocate keeping indangered or illegal animals in captivity against the law but that was just plain two faced. If a guy is breeding sea turtles there's a good chance he's already a marine biologist and has a legit "research" or other operation to cover up whatever activity he's practicing. Nobody else would even comtemplate a sea turtle operation (I just happen to live near william and mary's virginia institute of marine science with a few friends finished/working on there doctorate, one who oddly enough was given a grant to research sea turtles in the virgin islands a few years ago. strange group of people marine scientist!)

 

[laust]

Originally Posted by Stanlalee
...If a guy is breeding sea turtles there's a good chance he's already a marine biologist and has a legit "research" or other operation to cover up whatever activity he's practicing.
more realistic is this scenario...
Poncho jumped the fence and ended up at a local bar in cali, where it just so happened that Vinnie was there, trying to drowned his sorrows with a bottle of cabernet, because he couldn't figure out how to get rid of these 3 sea turtles he won in a poker match with the De Luca brothers.
Poncho hears Vinnie telling his woes to the bartender and pipes up "hey vato, i sell them for you."
thus beginning a lucrative career for Poncho, and relieving Vinnie of the burden. Vinnie soon realizes the profit in sea turtles and the high demand he didnt know existed. now Vinnie has the Pacific coast on back order for these turtles and lets Ponchos cousins that made it to town in the trailer of a false walled big rig, live on a boat that they take out into the ocean to collect these beautiful creatures and pass them off as captivity breeded lovlies.
all the while, the sea turtle population is depeleting as quickly as Vinnies pockets are bulging, and Poncho is drivng around a decked out el camino with dice hanging from the mirror and 17 inch spinner rims and gold plated trim, using a stolen *** that emilio swiped from the old lady that lives upstairs from him.

 

[boalgf]

Originally Posted by laust
more realistic is this scenario...
Poncho jumped the fence and ended up at a local bar in cali, where it just so happened that Vinnie was there, trying to drowned his sorrows with a bottle of cabernet, because he couldn't figure out how to get rid of these 3 sea turtles he won in a poker match with the De Luca brothers.
Poncho hears Vinnie telling his woes to the bartender and pipes up "hey vato, i sell them for you."
thus beginning a lucrative career for Poncho, and relieving Vinnie of the burden. Vinnie soon realizes the profit in sea turtles and the high demand he didnt know existed. now Vinnie has the Pacific coast on back order for these turtles and lets Ponchos cousins that made it to town in the trailer of a false walled big rig, live on a boat that they take out into the ocean to collect these beautiful creatures and pass them off as captivity breeded lovlies.
all the while, the sea turtle population is depeleting as quickly as Vinnies pockets are bulging, and Poncho is drivng around a decked out el camino with dice hanging from the mirror and 17 inch spinner rims and gold plated trim, using a stolen *** that emilio swiped from the old lady that lives upstairs from him.
good thind you aren't a racist jerk or anything.