animal abuse
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nietzsche
Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Well, it's not that we hate animals... we happen to have seven dogs and two horses. And it's not that they don't feel pain... we take our animals to the veterinarian all the time.
It's just that this whole thing is about wild animals... it's kind of ridiculous...
it's what i believe, there's nothing ridiculous about it. i think animals have just a much of a right to live as we do, what's wrong with that? i don't think it's okay that animals are being tortuted and neglected for publicity or entertainment, or at all. it freaks me out the way people are nowadays. couple weeks ago i saw on the news about some lady hitting a puppy (pitbull pup), bashing it against the floor, and then throwing it out of her apartment window where it slammed against the pavement left for dead until someone picked it up and took it to the vet. what's wrong with people? i have a pitbull who i've raised using a bottle since he was a baby. this guy loves people and likes to play all day. he has so much loyalty to us and it's just horrible that people could care less and just throw them out like trash
people obviously dont think its okay to kill other people and torture them, so what makes it okay for it to happen to animals?
Well, it's not that we hate animals... we happen to have seven dogs and two horses. And it's not that they don't feel pain... we take our animals to the veterinarian all the time.
It's just that this whole thing is about wild animals... it's kind of ridiculous...
it's what i believe, there's nothing ridiculous about it. i think animals have just a much of a right to live as we do, what's wrong with that? i don't think it's okay that animals are being tortuted and neglected for publicity or entertainment, or at all. it freaks me out the way people are nowadays. couple weeks ago i saw on the news about some lady hitting a puppy (pitbull pup), bashing it against the floor, and then throwing it out of her apartment window where it slammed against the pavement left for dead until someone picked it up and took it to the vet. what's wrong with people? i have a pitbull who i've raised using a bottle since he was a baby. this guy loves people and likes to play all day. he has so much loyalty to us and it's just horrible that people could care less and just throw them out like trash
people obviously dont think its okay to kill other people and torture them, so what makes it okay for it to happen to animals?
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by nietzsche
people obviously dont think its okay to kill other people and torture them, so what makes it okay for it to happen to animals?
I disagree. People kill and torture others all the time...and often cruelty to animals is one of the first signs of their callousness and future behavior.
Have you noticed the "sport" and rather barbaric extreme cage fighting that is gaining in popularity (I will add again, as it always has been around...gladiators and such).
People enjoy watching suffering for some reason. And the "animal" nature of some of it makes things like dog fighting rather appealing. The difference, of course, that another person has a choice in the matter of fighting has little to do with their decisions.
But even on this board you will find that many people see animals, including fish, as decorations or accessories. And they can be changed, just like clothes. They don't see them as you do...I don't agree with it, but it is pretty pervasive in society I think.
people obviously dont think its okay to kill other people and torture them, so what makes it okay for it to happen to animals?
I disagree. People kill and torture others all the time...and often cruelty to animals is one of the first signs of their callousness and future behavior.
Have you noticed the "sport" and rather barbaric extreme cage fighting that is gaining in popularity (I will add again, as it always has been around...gladiators and such).
People enjoy watching suffering for some reason. And the "animal" nature of some of it makes things like dog fighting rather appealing. The difference, of course, that another person has a choice in the matter of fighting has little to do with their decisions.
But even on this board you will find that many people see animals, including fish, as decorations or accessories. And they can be changed, just like clothes. They don't see them as you do...I don't agree with it, but it is pretty pervasive in society I think.
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by Microview
You cannot justify it.
I did not justify it. But unless you understand the perspective people have on why it is done, you will never change anything. Otherwise it is just more westernized "we're better than you savages" stuff...and that hasn't worked very well over the course of history.
You have to win people over to an idea, especially one that may be totally foreign to them. They don't SEE it as cruelty. They don't know why we would react so strangely. Unless we understand this, we wouldn't have a way to change minds.
They may not have the same "god," or their interpretation of his intent may be different...that animals were put here for our use, case closed. Perception is a powerful thing, both for good and bad. An open mind does not mean "justification" nor does it mean turning a blind eye. It means trying to understand the real root of the issues.
You cannot justify it.
I did not justify it. But unless you understand the perspective people have on why it is done, you will never change anything. Otherwise it is just more westernized "we're better than you savages" stuff...and that hasn't worked very well over the course of history.
You have to win people over to an idea, especially one that may be totally foreign to them. They don't SEE it as cruelty. They don't know why we would react so strangely. Unless we understand this, we wouldn't have a way to change minds.
They may not have the same "god," or their interpretation of his intent may be different...that animals were put here for our use, case closed. Perception is a powerful thing, both for good and bad. An open mind does not mean "justification" nor does it mean turning a blind eye. It means trying to understand the real root of the issues.
nietzsche
Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
I disagree. People kill and torture others all the time...and often cruelty to animals is one of the first signs of their callousness and future behavior.
Have you noticed the "sport" and rather barbaric extreme cage fighting that is gaining in popularity (I will add again, as it always has been around...gladiators and such).
People enjoy watching suffering for some reason. And the "animal" nature of some of it makes things like dog fighting rather appealing. The difference, of course, that another person has a choice in the matter of fighting has little to do with their decisions.
But even on this board you will find that many people see animals, including fish, as decorations or accessories. And they can be changed, just like clothes. They don't see them as you do...I don't agree with it, but it is pretty pervasive in society I think.
maybe because no one wants to stand up and say something about killing each other or violence? you wouldn't encourage your kids to be involved in brawls in school, right? i'm not sure what you're disagreeing with though, that killing each other is not wrong? if you're disagreeing with that i think you mean that some people like killing and some people dont?
yes, people kill each other, and just because it's been going on for a long time doesn't mean it's okay and should continue to happen
just because people can neglect animals and have them die and see them as decorations doesnt mean it should be okay and let them continue buying animals just to have them. im sure theres crazy laws in some states about animals.
I disagree. People kill and torture others all the time...and often cruelty to animals is one of the first signs of their callousness and future behavior.
Have you noticed the "sport" and rather barbaric extreme cage fighting that is gaining in popularity (I will add again, as it always has been around...gladiators and such).
People enjoy watching suffering for some reason. And the "animal" nature of some of it makes things like dog fighting rather appealing. The difference, of course, that another person has a choice in the matter of fighting has little to do with their decisions.
But even on this board you will find that many people see animals, including fish, as decorations or accessories. And they can be changed, just like clothes. They don't see them as you do...I don't agree with it, but it is pretty pervasive in society I think.
maybe because no one wants to stand up and say something about killing each other or violence? you wouldn't encourage your kids to be involved in brawls in school, right? i'm not sure what you're disagreeing with though, that killing each other is not wrong? if you're disagreeing with that i think you mean that some people like killing and some people dont?
yes, people kill each other, and just because it's been going on for a long time doesn't mean it's okay and should continue to happen
just because people can neglect animals and have them die and see them as decorations doesnt mean it should be okay and let them continue buying animals just to have them. im sure theres crazy laws in some states about animals.
nietzsche
Active Member
this whole "it's their culture not ours" thing is good and all, yeah it's their culture and they have their own things, but i'm not in agreement with it.
you and i have the same idea but i have no idea why were head butting. youre not agreement with it. ok me either. its their culture. yes i know. should i be okay with it? no. i dont believe killing innocent animals is okay because they do it, i'm not in their culture.
im also not saying we should all go to africa and stop people either.
you and i have the same idea but i have no idea why were head butting. youre not agreement with it. ok me either. its their culture. yes i know. should i be okay with it? no. i dont believe killing innocent animals is okay because they do it, i'm not in their culture.
im also not saying we should all go to africa and stop people either.
nietzsche
Active Member
i've been through this in my ethics class.
cultural relativism- x is moral (or not). If the culture believes it is, when the culture believes it is, and for that culture and for no other reason. Majority has to be at least 70%.
Q: Can we judge a culture's beliefs about morality to be dysfunctional?
No: if the beliefs that cause the outcome are still widely accepted, then there is no moral dysfunction. (under cultural relativism)
[hr]
Ethnocentrism: judging other cultures by your own culture's standards (Notice the USA fits in here???)
cultural relativism- x is moral (or not). If the culture believes it is, when the culture believes it is, and for that culture and for no other reason. Majority has to be at least 70%.
Q: Can we judge a culture's beliefs about morality to be dysfunctional?
No: if the beliefs that cause the outcome are still widely accepted, then there is no moral dysfunction. (under cultural relativism)
[hr]
Ethnocentrism: judging other cultures by your own culture's standards (Notice the USA fits in here???)
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by nietzsche
this whole "it's their culture not ours" thing is good and all, yeah it's their culture and they have their own things, but i'm not in agreement with it.
you and i have the same idea but i have no idea why were head butting. youre not agreement with it. ok me either. its their culture. yes i know. should i be okay with it? no. i dont believe killing innocent animals is okay because they do it, i'm not in their culture.
im also not saying we should all go to africa and stop people either.
Whoa, we're not head butting. We are having a conversation as happens in this forum. I'm not saying you need to be "OK with it." I'm just trying to present an alternative point of view, which we are entitled to do if done productively. There is no frustration on my part - just an open discussion by people with different ideas.
And obviously I am not saying killing is fine. Please don't misrepresent what I am saying. I am saying that we have to try and understand the different context that people have around the world.
So let me be clear (and I will clarify anything else anyone is wondering about)
I do not believe in murder
I do not believe animals should be skinned alive and left to die.
I believe that we should try to be as humane as possible in how we treat our animals.
But I do understand that much if this is due to being raised in a western home, as a Christian, and as an animal lover.
this whole "it's their culture not ours" thing is good and all, yeah it's their culture and they have their own things, but i'm not in agreement with it.
you and i have the same idea but i have no idea why were head butting. youre not agreement with it. ok me either. its their culture. yes i know. should i be okay with it? no. i dont believe killing innocent animals is okay because they do it, i'm not in their culture.
im also not saying we should all go to africa and stop people either.
Whoa, we're not head butting. We are having a conversation as happens in this forum. I'm not saying you need to be "OK with it." I'm just trying to present an alternative point of view, which we are entitled to do if done productively. There is no frustration on my part - just an open discussion by people with different ideas.
And obviously I am not saying killing is fine. Please don't misrepresent what I am saying. I am saying that we have to try and understand the different context that people have around the world.
So let me be clear (and I will clarify anything else anyone is wondering about)
I do not believe in murder
I do not believe animals should be skinned alive and left to die.
I believe that we should try to be as humane as possible in how we treat our animals.
But I do understand that much if this is due to being raised in a western home, as a Christian, and as an animal lover.
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
Whoa, we're not head butting. We are having a conversation as happens in this forum. I'm not saying you need to be "OK with it." I'm just trying to present an alternative point of view, which we are entitled to do if done productively. There is no frustration on my part - just an open discussion by people with different ideas.
And obviously I am not saying killing is fine. Please don't misrepresent what I am saying. I am saying that we have to try and understand the different context that people have around the world.
So let me be clear (and I will clarify anything else anyone is wondering about)
I do not believe in murder
I do not believe animals should be skinned alive and left to die.
I believe that we should try to be as humane as possible in how we treat our animals.
But I do understand that much if this is due to being raised in a western home, as a Christian, and as an animal lover.
Gorilla killer.
Whoa, we're not head butting. We are having a conversation as happens in this forum. I'm not saying you need to be "OK with it." I'm just trying to present an alternative point of view, which we are entitled to do if done productively. There is no frustration on my part - just an open discussion by people with different ideas.
And obviously I am not saying killing is fine. Please don't misrepresent what I am saying. I am saying that we have to try and understand the different context that people have around the world.
So let me be clear (and I will clarify anything else anyone is wondering about)
I do not believe in murder
I do not believe animals should be skinned alive and left to die.
I believe that we should try to be as humane as possible in how we treat our animals.
But I do understand that much if this is due to being raised in a western home, as a Christian, and as an animal lover.
Gorilla killer.
nietzsche
Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
But I do understand that much if this is due to being raised in a western home, as a Christian, and as an animal lover.
It could possibly be, but as humans, don't we know that we suffer or what suffering is? many of these animals we know suffer, many of these animals don't have voices for themselves but we know they must suffer in some way.
I think anyone should know that suffering is a universal thing (unless you love pain and pain is good for you). if i have a wound i tend to it, if an animal has a wound it tends to it, etc.
if people know there's suffering in living things (or maybe "nonliving" things too,lol i wont get into that at all--some people are just weird), why make them suffer? no one likes to suffer
those gorillas had just as much of a right to live like anyone, but sadly, they were just murdered and had their bodies desecrated to get peoples attention-- that's sad
But I do understand that much if this is due to being raised in a western home, as a Christian, and as an animal lover.
It could possibly be, but as humans, don't we know that we suffer or what suffering is? many of these animals we know suffer, many of these animals don't have voices for themselves but we know they must suffer in some way.
I think anyone should know that suffering is a universal thing (unless you love pain and pain is good for you). if i have a wound i tend to it, if an animal has a wound it tends to it, etc.
if people know there's suffering in living things (or maybe "nonliving" things too,lol i wont get into that at all--some people are just weird), why make them suffer? no one likes to suffer
those gorillas had just as much of a right to live like anyone, but sadly, they were just murdered and had their bodies desecrated to get peoples attention-- that's sad
clown boy
Active Member
I would never kill a Gorilla for the reasons that those guys did alone and then just leave it there... but I think this whole "animal rights" thing is going too far... if people want to kill animals, let them. Gorillas don't have the same rights that humans have for a reason: They are animals.
