Another overflow, another day in the life....of me

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by deejeff442 http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/20#post_3449053
the U tube has water on both boxes inside and out so it never loses its prime unless of course you take it out to clean it.i found a small snail crawling through mine last week.he made it to the outside box where i took him out.it didnt slow the overflow down .well not enough to cause a problem.
hey acrylic i sent an email to the tank builder to see if he can make the inside overflow box and drill the holes for that set up.i will plumb it.we will see what he says
If thats so then I know what my next purchase is going to be. I need some input from the experts here. 2Quills and Acrylic chose the CPR for a reason.

 

[deejeff442]

well reason i dont use the cpr is because i dropped it when i moved and you know oops.it was alot more quiet i did have it running without the pump so i dont know if the pump just gets it primmed and runs just in case?but i have never had a problem with the U pipe system.
thinking about it i seem to break alot of stuff.maybe thats when i do concrete for a living?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by deejeff442 http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449062
well reason i dont use the cpr is because i dropped it when i moved and you know oops.it was alot more quiet i did have it running without the pump so i dont know if the pump just gets it primmed and runs just in case?but i have never had a problem with the U pipe system.
thinking about it i seem to break alot of stuff.maybe thats when i do concrete for a living?
The pump has gone out on the 90g before as well, and it didn't overflow. The water line got real close but no overflow. I think the return on the 56g SH tank is a bit more powerful than the CPR...not enough to make a problem until the lifter pump isn't working giving it that extra push. I have a 300gph CPR on that tank, and the 600gph CPR on the 90g.
I break stuff in the middle of the night when all the stores are closed...BECAUSE after working night shift for 30+ years that was my daytime. I have learned to not putz with the tank for water changes or anything on a Sunday or after store hours. LOL...I have a ton of "extra" parts. I save fish stuff like a hoarder.

 

[beaslbob]

Hopefully it has already been covered but your upper container (usually the display) should not overflow in the event of a drain failure. What should happen is the pump runs dry and/or is turned off.
my .02

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449087
Hopefully it has already been covered but your upper container (usually the display) should not overflow in the event of a drain failure. What should happen is the pump runs dry and/or is turned off.
my .02
In a total power failure a siphon break should take care of that....it's covered.
A drain failure means that the top can't drain the water that the bottom pump sends up....which is what happened when the overflow lifter pump was not working. When the drain fails, the top will always overflow as long as the bottom pump runs.
One thing I am so happy I do....I put all pumps on a single power strip and created an emergency shut off button. The moment I have a pump failure anywhere or a lose hose...that one button is a water saver.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449101
In a total power failure a siphon break should take care of that....it's covered.
A drain failure means that the top can't drain the water that the bottom pump sends up....which is what happened when the overflow lifter pump was not working. When the drain fails, the top will always overflow as long as the bottom pump runs.
One thing I am so happy I do....I put all pumps on a single power strip and created an emergency shut off button. The moment I have a pump failure anywhere or a lose hose...that one button is a water saver.
No that is incorrect.
As I found out after 3 floods in my display.
what happens is water is pumped up the to upper container. Lowering the level in the sump. If the sump runs out of water before the upper coantiner floods, there is no flood.

 

[beaslbob]

That is assuming you don't have an auto topoff.

 

[geoj]

Flower has a cpr like overflow that needs a siphon pipe to siphon the water up and over the top of the tank before it drains to the sump. You loose that siphon and you flood the DT.

 

[deejeff442]

yep i will stick with the gravity fed.gravity never stops pulling

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449137
No that is incorrect.
As I found out after 3 floods in my display.
what happens is water is pumped up the to upper container. Lowering the level in the sump. If the sump runs out of water before the upper coantiner floods, there is no flood.
Wait...are you saying you have room in the display to hold all the water from your sump, so even if it runs out of water the top tank will not overflow?
GeoJ is correct about my system....My display is almost at the rim full, it doesn't take much water at all to overflow the DT. I do have enough room and then some in the sump before the siphon breaks but not so with the DT. My CPR overflow has to have a lifter pump to keep flowing.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449055
If thats so then I know what my next purchase is going to be. I need some input from the experts here. 2Quills and Acrylic chose the CPR for a reason.
I wasn't a fan of the CPR to begin with.....The aqualifter pumps scares me.....Your a prime example the issues you've had....I'd take the U tube setup anyday.......

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449258
I wasn't a fan of the CPR to begin with.....The aqualifter pumps scares me.....Your a prime example the issues you've had....I'd take the U tube setup anyday.......
The venturi pump I put on the 90g is working without flaw....it's the lifter pump and I can't get the venturi to work on the second one. The air hose was nice and tight but it just would not work on the seahorse tank. I usually watch the pump very close when I first restart it, and the last time I didn't it had the air hose come lose, then when I reattched the hose it was clogged...This is the first time either tank has overflowed.
I think you guys did an awesome job at picking out equipment, and making the sump and refugium. I'm just as happy with it as the day it arrived in one piece. I may redo my hoses on the SH tank and get a U -Tube type overflow for it...the 90g is working perfect and I know not to mess with perfection, so that overflow will remain as is.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449207
Wait...are you saying you have room in the display to hold all the water from your sump, so even if it runs out of water the top tank will not overflow?
GeoJ is correct about my system....My display is almost at the rim full, it doesn't take much water at all to overflow the DT. I do have enough room and then some in the sump before the siphon breaks but not so with the DT. My CPR overflow has to have a lifter pump to keep flowing.
Yes that is correct.
As I stated before you adjust the system so the sump runs dry before the display floods. Two levels. One is to lower (slightly) the display level so more water can be pumped to the display before a flood. The other is to lower the level in the sump so there is less water available to pump up to the display should the drain blcok of siphon fail. One one sump I had the in line pump intake adjustable so I could raise or lower the intake.
When I got it all setup correctly the display was just at the black rim and the sump level was close enough to the pump intake the display would not flood when I broke siphon. I then marked that level on the sump to insure I never added water to the tank above that level. the water above that level is the flood amount should the overflow/drain fail.
what makes all this easier if when the sump has a much smaller surface area then the display. If the display has (120g) 4 footx2foot or 8 square feet and the sump is say 1footx1foot or one square foot, then each inch of sump level is 1/8 inch of display level. So if your display was 1" below flood level the sump could be 8" above the pump intake (well less for safety). Fortunately that is usually the case as we don't use 55g tanks for sumps on 55g tanks.
my .02

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449611
what makes all this easier if when the sump has a much smaller surface area then the display. If the display has (120g) 4 footx2foot or 8 square feet and the sump is say 1footx1foot or one square foot, then each inch of sump level is 1/8 inch of display level. So if your display was 1" below flood level the sump could be 8" above the pump intake (well less for safety). Fortunately that is usually the case as we don't use 55g tanks for sumps on 55g tanks.
my .02
LOL...I am a math cripple. I could follow what you were saying up until this last paragraph. I know it all sounds so easy to you, but this is an alien language to me. Now don't get me wrong I understand the measures you gave...but how to adapt that to my 90g DT and 20g sump...no way. I originally had a 30g tank and a 30g sump.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449626
LOL...I am a math cripple. I could follow what you were saying up until this last paragraph. I know it all sounds so easy to you, but this is an alien language to me. Now don't get me wrong I understand the measures you gave...but how to adapt that to my 90g DT and 20g sump...no way. I originally had a 30g tank and a 30g sump.
LOL
Just forget the math.
lower the display water level a bit. (by adjusting the overflow height). Then drain the sump to just above (or even below) the pump's intake. then fail the overflow.
Run the pump untill it runs dry. the keep adding water to the sump until the display is just below flood level.
the restart the overflow and let things settle down. Mark the sump level and insure you never add water above that line.
that will prevent the display from overflowing should the overflow fail.
Of course you still have to do the usual power out and return tests also. and repeat the overflow failure just to check.
my .02

 

[deejeff442]

or just buy a reliable overflow system.i have been doing the research on this bean animal overflow.quite impressive indeed.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449714
LOL
Just forget the math.
lower the display water level a bit. (by adjusting the overflow height). Then drain the sump to just above (or even below) the pump's intake. then fail the overflow.
Run the pump untill it runs dry. the keep adding water to the sump until the display is just below flood level.
the restart the overflow and let things settle down. Mark the sump level and insure you never add water above that line.
that will prevent the display from overflowing should the overflow fail.
Of course you still have to do the usual power out and return tests also. and repeat the overflow failure just to check.
my .02
Can't do...my CPR overflow box is already as low as it will go. It has screws to lift it higher but it will not go any lower, it's resting right on the rim of the tank now. As long as I make sure the lifter pump is functioning after a shut off I'm fine. It's reliable as long as it restarts as it should. Someday down the line I will switch it to a U tube type. I really want to get some fish for the 90g and some new coral. The only thing I has been getting of late are CUC critters and equipment. I want some new purdy stuff.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by deejeff442 http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449717
or just buy a reliable overflow system.i have been doing the research on this bean animal overflow.quite impressive indeed.
People seem to like it. I'm actually adapting my system to that design now. Pretty sure it's only for drilled tanks though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449736
Can't do...my CPR overflow box is already as low as it will go. It has screws to lift it higher but it will not go any lower, it's resting right on the rim of the tank now. As long as I make sure the lifter pump is functioning after a shut off I'm fine. It's reliable as long as it restarts as it should. Someday down the line I will switch it to a U tube type. I really want to get some fish for the 90g and some new coral. The only thing I has been getting of late are CUC critters and equipment. I want some new purdy stuff.
Sorry you're having so much trouble with them Flower. I had hoped they'd work good for you and be reliable. It seems pretty clear to me now that they aren't quite as reliable as some people make them out to be. Everybody seems to tout the u-tube style ones better. Perhaps that's the way to go. Or get somebody to build a more reliable pump for them.
There is another way to run them without using any pumps. You can take the tube out of the overflow and cap it so that it's completely 100% no doubt air tight. If you can do that then you really shouldn't have to worry about it starting back up because it will stay primed the very same way the u-tube ones do. It could be an option worth trying.

 

[snakeblitz33]

My little Eshopps nano has never lost siphon. I like the U-tubes that don't have the pumps on them. To me they are much, much more reliable, as long as your pump is able to push all of the bubbles through the tube - no problems or worries.
Now that I think about it, I really wish I had drilled my tank like luvmyreef. But, live and learn.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by deejeff442 http:///t/389848/another-overflow-another-day-in-the-life-of-me/40#post_3449717
or just buy a reliable overflow system.i have been doing the research on this bean animal overflow.quite impressive indeed.
There is no absolutely fail proof overflow system. If nothing else things like snails can get lodged in the drain or even algae sometimes, which block the drain.
therefore it is extremely important to adjust levels to prevent floods on any system.
my .02