As a gun owner, how do you feel about...

[reefraff]

The only thing that would have prevented fester jr. from doing what he did would have been a ban on weird people. Perhaps if the college he attended had taken the extra step of getting the cops involved but they had had numerous interactions with the kid and his family already. This is just one of those cases where you couldn't have prevented it period. He would have had to have been forced into an institution for mental treatment to trigger a flag in a background check. I dunno if any of his previous actions would have reached that level of weird.

 

[jstdv8]

Another thing to consider is this type of thing only happens a couple times a year, sometime less often. Considering we have just under 312 million people in the US, I actually don't think the crime (Gun related or not) is all that bad. I'm sure the parents of the littel girl who just got killed might disagree, But it seems you can expect a pretty good number of nutjobs out of 312 million people. Overall it seems they stay in check pretty well.

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/40#post_3349115
Curious GeriDoc.....are you a gun carrier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/40#post_3349098
New York has some of the most stringent gun laws in the US, and has one of the lowest violent crime rates of any major city in the US at the same time. OTOH, Arizona has a very liberal set of gun laws, and nobody was able to respond to the nutjob who shot all those people. I'm sure Christina Greene is very happy that there were all those gun-carrying citizens to protect her. In other words, you can cherry pick any statistics you want to make the argument for, or against, gun carrying. But the bottom line is that society is entitled, no - required- to enact whatever laws it needs to to ensure public safety. The trick is to balance a gun-carrying culture against societal safety, and IMHO, unbridled gun carrying is not balanced.
No, I am not, but I have fired a variety of weapons on ranges, and understand that for some people this could be something they wish to do, and I have nothing against that. As I said, there needs to be some kind of balance (although I will freely admit I don't know what it is, but I know what it isn't).

 

[reefraff]

Just make a law that everyone must carry a gun. Rambo ain't gonna be so willing to jump froggy if he knows John Wayne, Dirty Harry and the Terminator are standing next to him just waiting for an excuse to make someone's day

 

[acrylic51]

Reefraff, I think all law abiding citizens should carry a gun.... but my form of justice for the young punk wouldn't be in a court room it would be in the town square at the end of a rope....Maybe we should go back to real justice, and punishment to fit the crime....
GeriDoc I asked that because of the comment you made about her happy knowing all those gun carrying citizens could have protected her.....My point being if someone armed did return fire, I'm quite sure that would/could be considered reckless, and just as endangering as well.....

 

[reefraff]

I think juvenile punishment is too lenient in most cases. You keep letting kids skate off easy it carries over into adult life where crimes become more serious. There's a case now where two 15 year old girls posted up a fake facebook page on a girl they don't like. They shopped her head on some naked pictures and wrote a bunch of garbage and linked it to all the kids they knew at school. It was repulsive watching this defense lawyer on TV making excuses for why they shouldn't do jail time for that. They basically ruined that other girl's life and this shrew lawyer doesn't think they should go to jail.

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/40#post_3349121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/40#post_3349098
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/40#post_3349077
Look what happened in Washington DC when their Residents were able to carry firearms for Self Protection. Their Voilent Crime Rate DROPPED. Why because the peole did not know if the person they were mugging had a pistol on them and would kill them. Then there is Chicago had a Ban on all guns for Years and becme one of the Most Dangerous Cities in America. The City loses a Supreme court Decision on the Ban so Dlae tha Mayor passes all kinds of laws that basically redid the Ban yet allowed people to own guns. Guess what Voilence is still high. Because the peole that had the GUNS akak the GANGS they do not care about a law. The people that obey the laws are the ones that are SCREWED.
New York has some of the most stringent gun laws in the US, and has one of the lowest violent crime rates of any major city in the US at the same time. OTOH, Arizona has a very liberal set of gun laws, and nobody was able to respond to the nutjob who shot all those people. I'm sure Christina Greene is very happy that there were all those gun-carrying citizens to protect her. In other words, you can cherry pick any statistics you want to make the argument for, or against, gun carrying. But the bottom line is that society is entitled, no - required- to enact whatever laws it needs to to ensure public safety. The trick is to balance a gun-carrying culture against societal safety, and IMHO, unbridled gun carrying is not balanced.
New York City, sure, New York state...no....the same gun laws are applicable through out the State of New York and their violent gun crime rate places the state of New York at 13th highest for violent gun crimes per capita. To be honest, Looking at the violent gun crime rate per state, I see NO correlation between gun laws and a lower or Higher rate of gun crime.
Or, to put it another way, in 2007:
109,518 people were hit by gunfire
30,896 died
of the dead, 12791 were murdered, 642 died by accident (including 154 children)
New York State was 46th out of 50 in gun deaths (5.07 fatalities/100,000), Louisiana was "first" with 19.87/100,000.
These are taken from the Brady Gun Control Campaign (fwiw).

 

[jstdv8]

That only shows part of the picture though of course. Interesting facts, but I think the other side of the coin says that if you are in an area where you know some or most residents are likley to be carrying weapons you are less likley to rob them or rape them or other violent crimes for fear of you being the one who gets dead or injured. So one might say that violent crimes weather a gun was actually used or not might also be an indicator of how well gun control works.
there are lots of factors that go into it though. Here in Alaska our gun laws are as lax as any in the US yet our crime rate is on the high side. This in my opinion has a bit to do with the type of people who live here as much as it has to do with anything.
they aren't exactly refined.

 

[aquaknight]

Yea, I wonder how many of those 19.87/100k in Louisiana for example, where in fact the attempted robbers/rapist/etc. So if that number includes them, honest to god, good riddance.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3350897
Or, to put it another way, in 2007:
109,518 people were hit by gunfire
30,896 died
of the dead, 12791 were murdered, 642 died by accident (including 154 children)
New York State was 46th out of 50 in gun deaths (5.07 fatalities/100,000), Louisiana was "first" with 19.87/100,000.
These are taken from the Brady Gun Control Campaign (fwiw).
30896 died
-12791 Murders
-642 accidental
17,463 Were not murders or accidents, what is left? Self defense? lol
(not that anyone should believe any biased data.)

 

[darthtang aw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351294
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3350897
Or, to put it another way, in 2007:
109,518 people were hit by gunfire
30,896 died
of the dead, 12791 were murdered, 642 died by accident (including 154 children)
New York State was 46th out of 50 in gun deaths (5.07 fatalities/100,000), Louisiana was "first" with 19.87/100,000.
These are taken from the Brady Gun Control Campaign (fwiw).
30896 died
-12791 Murders
-642 accidental
17,463 Were not murders or accidents, what is left? Self defense? lol
(not that anyone should believe any biased data.)
They must have been pistol whipped to death................

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351294
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3350897
Or, to put it another way, in 2007:
109,518 people were hit by gunfire
30,896 died
of the dead, 12791 were murdered, 642 died by accident (including 154 children)
New York State was 46th out of 50 in gun deaths (5.07 fatalities/100,000), Louisiana was "first" with 19.87/100,000.
These are taken from the Brady Gun Control Campaign (fwiw).
30896 died
-12791 Murders
-642 accidental
17,463 Were not murders or accidents, what is left? Self defense? lol
(not that anyone should believe any biased data.)
Yeah, be a good "rest of the story" feature.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351323
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351294
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3350897
Or, to put it another way, in 2007:
109,518 people were hit by gunfire
30,896 died
of the dead, 12791 were murdered, 642 died by accident (including 154 children)
New York State was 46th out of 50 in gun deaths (5.07 fatalities/100,000), Louisiana was "first" with 19.87/100,000.
These are taken from the Brady Gun Control Campaign (fwiw).
30896 died
-12791 Murders
-642 accidental
17,463 Were not murders or accidents, what is left? Self defense? lol
(not that anyone should believe any biased data.)
Yeah, be a good "rest of the story" feature.
So guns got 17,000 bad guys? lol

 

[geridoc]

Sorry, I was tired when I posted, so I edited the data. Here's the full dataset:
109,518 hit by gunfire
30896 dead
12791 by murder
16883 by suicide
360 by police action
642 by accident (154 children)
It doesn't report how many of those hit by gunfire or killed by accident were "self-defense" events, but judging from the armed response in Arizona, possibly not many (speculation, only). There are 220 deaths unaccounted for - maybe those were self-defense?

 

[reefraff]

Concealed carry was always sold as more of a deterrent than a response and judging by the anti-gunners own data that seems to be the case. In the states that have enacted concealed carry where they previously had restrictive gun laws most have shown significant decreases in crime following the passage. The fears of wild west type shootouts in the streets were never realized. Hopefully the rest of the state will get on board. Dangerous world out there and unless we can find the money to put several million more cops on the streets we are at the mercy of the thugs who don't give a damn how many new laws we pass.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351822
Sorry, I was tired when I posted, so I edited the data. Here's the full dataset:
109,518 hit by gunfire
30896 dead
12791 by murder
16883 by suicide
360 by police action
642 by accident (154 children)
It doesn't report how many of those hit by gunfire or killed by accident were "self-defense" events, but judging from the armed response in Arizona, possibly not many (speculation, only). There are 220 deaths unaccounted for - maybe those were self-defense?
ahh, I really was curious...

 

[darthtang aw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351822
Sorry, I was tired when I posted, so I edited the data. Here's the full dataset:
109,518 hit by gunfire
30896 dead
12791 by murder
16883 by suicide
360 by police action
642 by accident (154 children)
It doesn't report how many of those hit by gunfire or killed by accident were "self-defense" events, but judging from the armed response in Arizona, possibly not many (speculation, only). There are 220 deaths unaccounted for - maybe those were self-defense?
Why don't your numbers match what is posted on the website you said the numbers are from?
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/Gun_Death_and_Injury_Stat_Sheet_2007__2009_FINAL.pdf
Regardless, these numbers don't really help much as they are nationwide statistics. I am interested in how those numbers breakdown on a state by state basis. That would give far more insight.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351873
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3351822
Sorry, I was tired when I posted, so I edited the data. Here's the full dataset:
109,518 hit by gunfire
30896 dead
12791 by murder
16883 by suicide
360 by police action
642 by accident (154 children)
It doesn't report how many of those hit by gunfire or killed by accident were "self-defense" events, but judging from the armed response in Arizona, possibly not many (speculation, only). There are 220 deaths unaccounted for - maybe those were self-defense?
Why don't your numbers match what is posted on the website you said the numbers are from?
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/Gun_Death_and_Injury_Stat_Sheet_2007__2009_FINAL.pdf
Regardless, these numbers don't really help much as they are nationwide statistics. I am interested in how those numbers breakdown on a state by state basis. That would give far more insight.
It would also help if they were say from law enforcement, not some anti-constitutionalist group...

 

[darthtang aw]

Honestly, I place more emphasis on average income coupled with education and dropout rates as a direct correlation to higher crime rates and murders than availability of firearms.

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/383122/as-a-gun-owner-how-do-you-feel-about/60#post_3352251
Honestly, I place more emphasis on average income coupled with education and dropout rates as a direct correlation to higher crime rates and murders than availability of firearms.
+1