Assisted suicide

jennythebugg

Active Member
As one that nursed and cared for my fiance as he slowly dwindled painfully away into nothing , I support assisted suicide. I believe that if a person does not want to spend the rest of their days in pain they shouldn'y have to and I don't think the government should have the right to force someone to suffer.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090227/...d_suicide_ring
what are your thoughts on this...
 

spiderwoman

Active Member
I'm for it too. I watched my Mother's death battle and if it's me in that position, I want to have the power to and choice to ask for early byebye.
 

t316

Active Member
My response is going to be mixed here. As far as the case in the article, and assisted suicide in general, I'm totally against it and see it being borderline murder. But here's why...There are other, legal, and more ethical ways to accomplish the same goal. For example, someone who is eat up with cancer and is in pain can usually get morphine in a hospital. When it progresses to a certain point, the Doctor's and family make the same call as assited suicide by letting them die naturally, but they are so druged up they don't know it. Now I know the argument is going to be, what about people who don't want to go thru all that and get to that point? Well, stop eating, or do it yourself, but I'm not going stand accountable for assisting you illegally in taking a life. I think the article above even mentions that the one guy wasn't even terminal, but rather just probably didn't like his appearance after jaw surgery. That's not a legitimate reason to kill yourself.
Those are my mixed thoughts, but I also go both ways on abortion too, so I'm not always a black & white kind of guy. I think each case has to be interpreted.
 

flpriest

Member
Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2970557
My response is going to be mixed here. As far as the case in the article, and assisted suicide in general, I'm totally against it and see it being borderline murder. But here's why...There are other, legal, and more ethical ways to accomplish the same goal. For example, someone who is eat up with cancer and is in pain can usually get morphine in a hospital. When it progresses to a certain point, the Doctor's and family make the same call as assited suicide by letting them die naturally, but they are so druged up they don't know it. Now I know the argument is going to be, what about people who don't want to go thru all that and get to that point? Well, stop eating, or do it yourself, but I'm not going stand accountable for assisting you illegally in taking a life. I think the article above even mentions that the one guy wasn't even terminal, but rather just probably didn't like his appearance after jaw surgery. That's not a legitimate reason to kill yourself.
Those are my mixed thoughts, but I also go both ways on abortion too, so I'm not always a black & white kind of guy. I think each case has to be interpreted.
As respectfully as I can be here T316... I'm going to assume that you have never seen a loved one suffer and die...
Dr. Kavorkian was doing a great service, until our "Grand Government" made him quit. (By way of imprisonment) This leaves me wondering... where do we live...

Freedom of choice was revoked on this subject! I hope that some day it will be reinstated...
 

aquaknight

Active Member
I have two problems with this. First is the one T mentioned. How do we determine what's a legitimate reason? Like he said, someone who wants to commit suicide because of a blotched jaw surgery, no, that's not a good enough reason IMO. Well, what about someone with a back surgery that went wrong, and they're a paraplegic? Or a neck surgery, and now they're a quadriplegic? Not everyone has the strength of Christopher Reeves. It would be a tough decision for myself, I'd tell you that....
The other problem is that is certain cases it's would be tough for the person to express that they want the inevitable to happen, and it wouldn't be a 'family member's decision, but solely their own. The case with the Florida wife/husband, comes to mind.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Assisted suicide for Liberals only

I think if a person is diagnosed with a known debilitating disease with no cure and makes their wishes known while of sound mind why not.
 

flpriest

Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2970622
I have two problems with this. First is the one T mentioned. How do we determine what's a legitimate reason? Like he said, someone who wants to commit suicide because of a blotched jaw surgery, no, that's not a good enough reason IMO. Well, what about someone with a back surgery that went wrong, and they're a paraplegic? Or a neck surgery, and now they're a quadriplegic? Not everyone has the strength of Christopher Reeves. It would be a tough decision for myself, I'd tell you that....
The other problem is that is certain cases it's would be tough for the person to express that they want the inevitable to happen, and it wouldn't be a 'family member's decision, but solely their own. The case with the Florida wife/husband, comes to mind.
FIRST of all, this is the main problem... We're not determining, I think this is what Jenny is getting to in the first place...
Really, this gets into the analogy of if you smoke pot... bad... untill the government can control and tax it...
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by flpriest
http:///forum/post/2970630
FIRST of all, this is the main problem... We're not determining, I think this is what Jenny is getting to in the first place...
Really, this gets into the analogy of if you smoke pot... bad... untill the government can control and tax it...

So the guy that just didn't like his appearance, after his jaw surgery is fine to commit suicide then?
I may not be understanding what you're trying to get across....
 

flpriest

Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2970634
So the guy that just didn't like his appearance, after his jaw surgery is fine to commit suicide then?
I may not be understanding what you're trying to get across....
What I'm trying to get across is... The man that doesn't like his jaw will never pull the trigger in the first place, and if he really wants to die because of his bad jaw surgery... give him a good tharipist. and if he still wants to pay for assisted suiside... he has more money than brains...
"You can't fix stupid"... But for the person diognosed with stage 4 cancer,... they have, or at least feel they have control of the last days of thyier lives...
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
i actually went over this not too long in my medical ethics class. there is one state in our country that allows assisted suicide. the way it works is: you have to have a full psychological and medical evaluation first. over a period of six months you have to continue psychotherapy and medicinal intervention as directed and perscribed by doctors. if the therapy and medicine do not work, and you still feel like ending your life, then the doctor will write you a script for 3

[hr]
. take the

[hr]
and fall asleep forever. i can't remember whether there's a terminal or chronic illness prerequisite for this or not. as someone who has lost 3 uncles to suicide (every one of my ma's brothers) i feel like suicide is very selfish... HOWEVER- if someones quaility of life is sub-par (chronic or terminal illness) then i think that assisted suicide is a very humane practice, if not exploited. Dr. Kavorkian (sp?) was doing a great service, however, deserved his jail sentence b/c he was a doctor, had taken the hippocratic oath, and was breaking the law. what he was doing was for sure benefeciance, but it was still illegal whether we agree with it or not.
 

flpriest

Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2970639
i actually went over this not too long in my medical ethics class. there is one state in our country that allows assisted suicide. the way it works is: you have to have a full psychological and medical evaluation first. over a period of six months you have to continue psychotherapy and medicinal intervention as directed and perscribed by doctors. if the therapy and medicine do not work, and you still feel like ending your life, then the doctor will write you a script for 3

[hr]
. take the

[hr]
and fall asleep forever. i can't remember whether there's a terminal or chronic illness prerequisite for this or not. as someone who has lost 3 uncles to suicide (every one of my ma's brothers) i feel like suicide is very selfish... HOWEVER- if someones quaility of life is sub-par (chronic or terminal illness) then i think that assisted suicide is a very humane practice, if not exploited. Dr. Kavorkian (sp?) was doing a great service, however, deserved his jail sentence b/c he was a doctor, had taken the hippocratic oath, and was breaking the law. what he was doing was for sure benefeciance, but it was still illegal whether we agree with it or not.

This is the only way it can/should be done...
 

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by flpriest
http:///forum/post/2970597
As respectfully as I can be here T316... I'm going to assume that you have never seen a loved one suffer and die...
Dr. Kavorkian was doing a great service, until our "Grand Government" made him quit. (By way of imprisonment) This leaves me wondering... where do we live...

Freedom of choice was revoked on this subject! I hope that some day it will be reinstated...
No disrepect taken...
, but yes, I have witnessed several close family members die, but they suffered only up to the point where they just asked for morphine. After that, it was only painful for us watching, I don't think they even knew they were still here. Also, my mother currently has stage 4 cancer, and has progressed beyond any further treatments, however she refuses to give up, her choice, but I wouldn't help kill her with a plastic bag and helium bottle even if she asked me. On the other end of the spectrum, I had a best friend stick a service revolver in his mouth and end his life, just because his ex wouldn't let him see his kids. Not a good enough reason IMO, and was nothing more than a cowardly act by someone only thinking of himself.
Extreme examples here I know, which differ from the sweet little lady who is crying in pain from a terminal disease and begging for help, but my point is that they can do it legally at the hospital at the proper time when a Doctor says they are at that point, or they can do it theirselves. I'm not going to participate in an illegal killing.
As far as the case in the article, for these guys to say that they did nothing wrong and were only helping, is rediculous. They provided everything, assisted with the act while holding the persons hand, then cleaned up the scene. For pete's sake, why not just take a gun and shoot them? What's the difference. I might be more inclined to buy into their non-involvement if they would have just verbally told the person what to do, then walked away.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
I am so sorry for your loss. Each and everyone of you who have had to deal with such sad events I extend a prayer for you.
I have been there, when my Dad passed a year ago.
Personally I am against it and here is why.
There are medicines that will relieve pain, and you are not unconscious. Hospice care is where to go when that time arrives. Hospitals will torture you till the end.
The problem with assistance is that it ruins the life of the survivor. If you help a loved one do this, you don't get over it no matter how much you argue with your conscience. Losing your beloved is awful enough; picking up the pieces of your life just to move on is already so difficult.
Dr. Kevorkian did help people “end the suffering" but he didn't have to deal with personal grief. He “helped” them, and then moved on. The person that died wasn't his loved one. They were strangers until they met to discuss the decision and details of the how tos and when ifs.
JMO
 

jennythebugg

Active Member
i would and will do it if it comes down to being unable to take care of myself and being in daily pain,i don't want my kids to have to watch me die like they did tobin. i know where i stand on the issue just wondering 'bout everyone else.
 

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2970767
i would and will do it if it comes down to being unable to take care of myself and being in daily pain,i don't want my kids to have to watch me die like they did tobin. i know where i stand on the issue just wondering 'bout everyone else.
I'm with you Jenny!
 

makoshrk2

Member
I don't even know why suicide is illegal. It's there life. People should be able to do what they want with it. Yeah it's selfish, but it shouldn't be up to the government to decide. People think we live in a free country, and to an extent we do when compared to other parts of the world. People in this country have become so passive, the goverment has found ways too sugar coat everything, so it doesn't seem like they control us, but they do. They are scanning your emails, posts, and facebooks pages everyday. That is scary s**t.
 

acrylics

Member
Personally, I don't think there should be any laws regarding suicide. If I have a right to life, I also have the right to *not* exercise that right and end it, as I choose, when I choose. It is not up to anyone else to determine the legitimacy or anything else with regard to this.
Assisted suicide, provided it is carried out to the decedent's wishes and voluntary by all parties, is no different IMO.
 

petjunkie

Active Member
I got no problem with it, it's your life, why should I have a say whether or not you can kill yourself? My grandma spent months dying and days in a coma from liver cancer and she wished it would end quickly, without as much suffering as she had to go through. There wasn't any happy ending, she would have died either way and I think choosing your time while you are still coherant would be a lot better. She was at home in hospice care but not pain free no matter how many drugs they had her on and it was hard for her to take most of them, she couldn't swallow easily and they made her sick.
 

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by petjunkie
http:///forum/post/2970827
I got no problem with it, it's your life, why should I have a say whether or not you can kill yourself? My grandma spent months dying and days in a coma from liver cancer and she wished it would end quickly, without as much suffering as she had to go through. There wasn't any happy ending, she would have died either way and I think choosing your time while you are still coherant would be a lot better. She was at home in hospice care but not pain free no matter how many drugs they had her on and it was hard for her to take most of them, she couldn't swallow easily and they made her sick.
That would be the fault of Hospice. At this point, drugs are administerd by an IV, not by mouth, and with enough of the drugs, she shouldn't have felt a thing. This is not always the case, but usually the Hospice worker has authority to administer as much as the patient, if coherant, or the family wishes. No, it's not pretty to watch, but the patient shouldn't be feeling a thing. But this is why I say I'm mixed on this, because this description I just gave, is the same thing, assisted suicide, but it's the legal way to do it. They may call it 'humane medical care' or some crap like that, but it's still the same thing.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
How do I explain this and not sound to crss and callous.
Let's try this. I have no problem with assisted suicide. If it is because of medical reasons and the person is incapacitated I have no problem with it as long as there is NO doubt this is what the person would have wanted. Documents, a recording, something.....If not I feel no person has the RIGHT to choose this fate for someone else.
No if a person wants assistance to kill themselves because girlfriend leaving them, family problems, failed surgery (plastic) or slew of other selfiush reasons, Fine. This individual is selfish to begin with and obviously does not care enough about those that depend on them or society. Call it natural selection, call it mean, but if a person can't handle the things the najority of people in life handle regularly I want nothing to do with them. They become a drain on those surrounding them or society. I believe depression is contagious, if you are around a miserable person you will become miserable and so on and so forth. If the person is so miserable they no longer wish to live, who am I to make them survive? Sure medicine may help them, and I feel they should have to go this route first, but even after trying medicine they still feel this way, then that is that.
I have had friends commit suicide. I look at them as selfish for what they have done to their families and those they leave behind. But these people have moved on, and most of the time their lives become easier. They no longer have the drain and no longer hve the fear of what the person may do to themselves, thus their lives became easier in the long run.
One of my best friends did this. I hated him for the longest time over it because I saw it as stupid (over a girl). But he went 2 years depressed before hand. Tried medicine and nothing fixed it. We spent so much time trying to keep him cheered up so much, that everything became about my friend. After his death, time passed, all of us moved on. We think about him, but our lives did become easier, we no longer had a huge burden of concern.
This is harsh I know, but in the end, I think it can be better for all involved.......from a non religious aspect.....
Would I ever do it, no. No matter how much pain I am in I have people and friends that depend on me and my purpose is to make everyone better around me. So, if I am on my death bed, with no hope, and in paiun. I will look my wife in the eye, tell her I love her, hug my kids and will accept what fate/God throws my way. And show a value foprgotten in this world to my family and friends. Strength. That no matter what is thrown your way, you stare it down, fight it, and never give up........
 
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