Assisted suicide

bigarn

bigarn

Active Member
Common Darth .... That's way easier said than done.
Unless you're actually in the dieing and suffering person's place (God forbid) who are we to prolong the suffering?
If a person is able to communicate and is in constant pain and the outlook is fatal I think their request should be granted.
I also realize this is easier said than done, but a person would have to put their own "sellfish" feelings aside and do the right thing.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
This doesn't really add to the discussion but this is something that happened to me as a nurse.
There was a child dying. She was a DNR. (Do Not Resusitate). She suffered something awful and I would just stare at her through a crack in here door not wanting to disturb her but feeling like I had to do something... even if it was really nothing at all. I gave her drugs when they were due... I got stronger drugs ordered, had the doses increased and the allowable intervals decreased.
Well, what we thought would happen, happened. As I was pushing the medicine she stopped breathing. There was no doubt it was that drug being pushed at that time that caused her to stop.... it was a direct reaction to something I was doing that that was causing her to "die" then and there. So I did the chicken thing... I thought of myself and not her and pinched her.... pinched her hard... and she started breathing again. How could I have done that? She lived for 3 more days and every gasp and moan weighed heavy on my heart. I cried for days over what I had done. I felt like everything she was feeling after that was my fault. It was a hard lesson to learn as a young nurse.
But is it assisted suicide if I pop that vent off a patient who is not comatose? How about withholding fluids from a baby because it won't live past the age of 2-3y... but which has all of there capacities at birth. Decisions are made everyday to legally end a life early... but it pretty much remains a dirty secret within the hospital walls.
Do I agree with people running around with helium bags... heck no.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bigarn
http:///forum/post/2970945
Common Darth .... That's way easier said than done.
Unless you're actually in the dieing and suffering person's place (God forbid) who are we to prolong the suffering?
If a person is able to communicate and is in constant pain and the outlook is fatal I think their request should be granted.
I also realize this is easier said than done, but a person would have to put their own "sellfish" feelings aside and do the right thing.
I am for it, I just want to make sure there is no doubt. I would have a hard time granting the order to kill my mom if I had doubt that she would not want that....plus I would hate myself after if a medical advance came out that could cure whatever and wasn't 100% sure she would have made the choice to die. Which is why I had my parents and my family document their wishes on this.
 
bigarn

bigarn

Active Member
Exactly ... That's why I said the person should be able to communicate their wishes before anything is done.
You did the right thing in establishing your loved one's wishes ahead of time.
Everyone should do this.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
There are ways to alleviate pain without killing. I have kept hundreds of patients comfortable while they passed. I have not and will not assist in suicide. I took and Oath not to harm. I will do all I can to provide comfort along the way.
We use abortion as an "easy out" for unwanted pregnancies. It's just another method of "birth control". It is a way to aviod responsibility for your actions. There are definite indications for abortions, but these are fewer than the indications given today. Will not assisted suicide go the same way?
It's a slippery slope in many ways.
O2, MD
Board Certified Emergency Medicine
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2971175
We use abortion as an "easy out" for unwanted pregnancies. It's just another method of "birth control". It is a way to aviod responsibility for your actions.
Ummm... in your opinion. Some happen to have a very opposing view. But I'm not gonna get accused of hijacking anyone else's thread today... but those two topics are SO very different.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2971175
There are ways to alleviate pain without killing. I have kept hundreds of patients comfortable while they passed. I have not and will not assist in suicide. I took and Oath not to harm. I will do all I can to provide comfort along the way.
We use abortion as an "easy out" for unwanted pregnancies. It's just another method of "birth control". It is a way to aviod responsibility for your actions. There are definite indications for abortions, but these are fewer than the indications given today. Will not assisted suicide go the same way?
It's a slippery slope in many ways.
O2, MD
Board Certified Emergency Medicine

I am just curious but if the death/suicide is done in a manner that does not cause pain, is this doing harm?
How do we as a society define "harm" from a medical percpective. Not being a jerk, serious question.
 
bigarn

bigarn

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/2971203
Ummm... in your opinion. Some happen to have a very opposing view. But I'm not gonna get accused of hijacking anyone else's thread today... but those two topics are SO very different.
+10,000
Two completely different subjects.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2971214
I am just curious but if the death/suicide is done in a manner that does not cause pain, is this doing harm?
How do we as a society define "harm" from a medical percpective. Not being a jerk, serious question.
Death = harm
I was there when we removed the breathing tube from my father. 2 hours later I gave him a hug and kiss as he took his last breath. There is a time to call it quits, stop the pain and suffereing, but never a time for a physician to outright kill.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2971429
There is a time to call it quits, stop the pain and suffereing, but never a time for a physician to outright kill.
Dood, stop with the God Complex. It's never a time for ANYONE to outright kill.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/2971440
Dood, stop with the God Complex. It's never a time for ANYONE to outright kill.
No God complex here. We were discussing PHYSICIAN assisted suicide, and the role of the PHYSICIAN in stopping pain and suffering.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
OMG! For Real? We were talking about if we think it's "right" or not. Not about who did it in the past or who would be to do it in th efuture (if we made it in that direction) This is not a Dr Death conversation, but one that discusses whether or not assisted suicide... plain old assisted suicide, should or could be legalized under some structure.
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2971486
Does "dood" equal "dude"?
I say that IRL... not sure what the spelling should be other than how I say it... which is usually more along the lines of Dooood.
 
t316

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2971498
i dont think that anyone did anything other than teach the people how to kill themselves
If you are referring to the article in the OP, they did a lot more than teach. They brought in the equipment, they held his hand while he had the bag over his head, they watched him suffocate and die, then they removed the bag from his head, cleaned up the scene and left. That IMO, is not assisted suicide, that is premeditated First Degree Murder. I think the DA's office have the charges all wrong on these people.
Had they of just told him how to do it and where to get the needed accessories, either verbally in person or thru their website, I would call it 'assisted suicide', but this is not the case.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/2971474
I don't think we identified a doctor as the one who had to carry anything out.
I asked a direct question to Oscar regarding a doctor's oath to do no harm...he was answering it from a doctor's perspective.
Calm down, sheesh.
 
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