Assisted suicide

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2971654
I asked a direct question to Oscar regarding a doctor's oath to do no harm...he was answering it from a doctor's perspective.
Calm down, sheesh.

What was so "not calm" about about that statement?
Wow. Low tolerance for discussions and misinterpretation of what is calm and what is not.
EDIT: Oh heck... what am I doing. Trying to have a rationalize with "The instigator"? I don't think so.....
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2971450
No God complex here. We were discussing PHYSICIAN assisted suicide, and the role of the PHYSICIAN in stopping pain and suffering.
i am in school to be a nurse, and right now i am a flight medic for the record. here's the rub: patient is in chronic pain, wants to end their life because they hurt so bad, so often. in order to alleviate pain, doctor x writes a script for oxycontin hoping to restore quality of life. that person could very well go home, take the entire script and o.d. though, that's not what the doctor had intended, if someone wants to die badly enough, they'll find a way (see: sylvia plath). on a side note, the role of physicians in stopping pain and suffering is not without it's limits. there are millions of people addicted to opiate medicines (percocet, vicodin, oxycontin, morphine) and that in and of itself IS pain and suffering.
Doctor, this is by no means an attack at you, just a response. i certainly respect your opinion and your profession. you are in the business of saving lives, not taking them away, and that is a beautiful thing.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/2971672
What was so "not calm" about about that statement?
Wow. Low tolerance for discussions and misinterpretation of what is calm and what is not.
EDIT: Oh heck... what am I doing. Trying to have a rationalize with "The instigator"? I don't think so.....
It was also to include your previous statement about god complex....but forget it.....
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2971687
i am in school to be a nurse, and right now i am a flight medic for the record. here's the rub: patient is in chronic pain, wants to end their life because they hurt so bad, so often. in order to alleviate pain, doctor x writes a script for oxycontin hoping to restore quality of life. that person could very well go home, take the entire script and o.d. though, that's not what the doctor had intended, if someone wants to die badly enough, they'll find a way (see: sylvia plath). on a side note, the role of physicians in stopping pain and suffering is not without it's limits. there are millions of people addicted to opiate medicines (percocet, vicodin, oxycontin, morphine) and that in and of itself IS pain and suffering.
Doctor, this is by no means an attack at you, just a response. i certainly respect your opinion and your profession. you are in the business of saving lives, not taking them away, and that is a beautiful thing.

I fight the war against addiction every day. People want their narcs, and are willing to lie cheat and steal. I try to limit my Rx's through the ED as we should not be drive up refill depots for narcs. The PCP's/ pain managment folks should control the drugs. SOme people require long term high dose narcotics ( Cancer, etc). Some use them for a crutch. As to what people do with their Rx, that is up to them. Some sell them, some OD on them either acciendtly or intentionally. I cannot controll that. I can control when I prescribe, and I ty to use my head and all availible information I can get to make a good medical decision. I've ticked off my share of narcotic seekers in my carrer by not giving them what they wanted. It is the physicians right to prescribe what they want, I just think as a profession, (without a God complex) we should hold ourselves to only trying to save or improve life as much as we can, not intentionally taking it by giving medications or inventing machines of death.
Like I said, I gave the OK to remove my father from life support. I made sure his pain and suffering were controlled, but at no time was he given lethal doses of medications. Nature took its course and without total life support, dad died.
He died naturally and with grace, dignity, and comfort. He died with his family at his side. Who would not want that for their loved one or patient. There is what I want for me.
BTW, I'm a Flight Physician with the local Life Flight.
 

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by makoshrk2
http:///forum/post/2973507
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,502885,00.html
Wow...very interesting law going into effect there. I don't necessarily oppose it, because the law makes it legal. I'm still against allowing a group or individual to stick a bag over someone's head though.
I guess you could look at this topic kind of like prostitution, or marijuana. If it were made legal, then maybe the acts and methods would be cleaned up and monitored better so that we don't have people resorting to bags over the head...
 

flpriest

Member
Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2973514
Wow...very interesting law going into effect there. I don't necessarily oppose it, because the law makes it legal. I'm still against allowing a group or individual to stick a bag over someone's head though.
I guess you could look at this topic kind of like prostitution, or marijuana. If it were made legal, then maybe the acts and methods would be cleaned up and monitored better so that we don't have people resorting to bags over the head...

My thought exactly!
 

chronic pain

New Member
Just wanted to mention something here.
Chronic pain. People in chronic pain, and being "treated" for it, are nine times more likely to commit suicide than those in the regular population.
Why do you think this is? It is because yes, there ARE medicines which will help with the pain, but NO you do not get enough of them from the doctors. And, since you are not TERMINAL, you can do NOTHING ABOUT THIS. Except for one thing. (Read the title of this message post).
So you are in pain every day, year after year after year. The doctors are afraid to give people enough pain meds, as then they will probably lose their license. The government (yes, I agree they control pretty much everything) still does not agree with giving people in pain medications. They assume you will become an addict and/or some drug junkie. Give the pain people what they need, and you will lose your license.
So what should we do?
Oh, and also, why is it NOT being selfish to want someone to remain alive and in pain every day so that YOU do not feel bad about them dying?
 

crimzy

Active Member
Assisted suicide actually occurs much more often then people tend to know about. While Kevorkian made this a primetime story with his "suicide machine" and his videotaping of the suicides, physicians will often terminate treatment, (aside from pain medication), and allow a person to pass. I think that this is one of the unspoken events that the general public are not aware of.
Personally I have no problem with assisted suicide but I also think that Kevorkian deserved to be impriosoned for his actions. No criminal charges were ever filed against him until he decided to start videotaping the suicides and sharing them with the public. He made the story about him and his cause, moreso than the individual's passing discreetly and privately. Essentially he was spitting in the face of the existing laws that were not trying to prosecute him prior. Talk about a g-d complex... he should not have been the story but he made it that way. He broke the law and flaunted it. There was really no other option than to prosecute him.
 

chronic pain

New Member
yes, I "joined" this forum just to make a post. Mainly to you, Darthtang AW. You say you're a doctor, but you don't seem to know what really goes on with pain patients.
(and for your info, I was searching on the web, and this forum thread came up in the search results)
Although I really did like keeping a tankful of (non-saltwater) fish. When I went to college, though, family did not bother to feed them as they said they would. They didn't last long.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by chronic pain
http:///forum/post/3000745
yes, I "joined" this forum just to make a post. Mainly to you, Darthtang AW. You say you're a doctor, but you don't seem to know what really goes on with pain patients.
(and for your info, I was searching on the web, and this forum thread came up in the search results)
Although I really did like keeping a tankful of (non-saltwater) fish. When I went to college, though, family did not bother to feed them as they said they would. They didn't last long.

I am a doctor? when did I claim that...
See guys, I draw attention to this forum................
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3000767
I am a doctor? when did I claim that...
See guys, I draw attention to this forum................
Good Job Darth. You should be a mod. You are attracting new people to this wonderful forum
 

chronic pain

New Member
No one ever did mention.... why is a person NOT being selfish when they want someone to NOT kill themselves JUST so that they themselves do not feel bad about it? Isn't wanting someone to stay around in daily pain selfish? I never did get that....
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by chronic pain
http:///forum/post/3000900
No one ever did mention.... why is a person NOT being selfish when they want someone to NOT kill themselves JUST so that they themselves do not feel bad about it? Isn't wanting someone to stay around in daily pain selfish? I never did get that....
I don't know. What do you think Dr. Darth?
 

chronic pain

New Member
yeah yeah yeah....
I re-read that note.
In this board, you can't really tell when you are Quoting someone-- where that stops and your OWN writing starts. Seems it was actually "oscardeuce" who was the "doctor". The one who knows everything about how pain medicine and pain doctors work.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by chronic pain
http:///forum/post/3001010
yeah yeah yeah....
I re-read that note.
In this board, you can't really tell when you are Quoting someone-- where that stops and your OWN writing starts. Seems it was actually "oscardeuce" who was the "doctor". The one who knows everything about how pain medicine and pain doctors work.
I'm Board Certified in Emergency Medicine. I don't seem to recall knowing "everything", but 14 years experience has helped me learn a bit.
 

chronic pain

New Member
I suppose you still think that generics are exactly the same as brand name too. : ( (wrong.) (and I apologize ahead of time, but since you say you're a doctor, I'm going to pick on you. If I write any more.) It just makes me mad that if you are TERMINAL, you can get ALL THE PAIN MEDS YOU NEED. If you are NOT terminal, however, you are stuck getting just whatever the doctor thinks he can give you without the DEA breathing down his neck. It's not fair. BUT, since apparently no one in congress or the dea has any chronic pain people in their lives, it doesn't matter to them that people with chronic pain are nine times more likely than the general population to off themselves. (you know they're all drug addicts anyhow.) (<== NOT) I wish someone would do something about that.
 
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