AT A LOSS!!!!!!!!

[2quills]

Monsi, I would like to take a gander at that link if you don't mind. Currious to see what some of the issues are with them. Maybe its a certain type of rubbermaid? I know alot of folks do use that brand for water storage. Maybe its a particular one to stay away from.
So you were havig success with keeping corals before? And then you made a change and got a new tank, new rock and the containers and haven't had any luck since?

 

[geoj]

I would get a testing services to do a water analysis. Compare the results to known ocean water levels. I would also start a turf scrubber or refuge with macro algae to remove any heavy metals.

 

[shabbajh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/385231/at-a-loss/20#post_3377757
Monsi, I would like to take a gander at that link if you don't mind. Currious to see what some of the issues are with them. Maybe its a certain type of rubbermaid? I know alot of folks do use that brand for water storage. Maybe its a particular one to stay away from.
So you were havig success with keeping corals before? And then you made a change and got a new tank, new rock and the containers and haven't had any luck since?
That is correct. In my 29 Gallon using the same blue trash cans for making up water I was able to keep coral. It was a all in one system with just daylight bulbs. Nothing special and no skimmer. I had mushrooms growing like crazy all over the place, a frogspwan and plate coral. All doing great, plus I had corline alage growing crazy. I had to scrap the glass every couple of days.
I moved everything over to the 125 except the sand. I then bought more rock for the bigger tank. I don't remember when my coral died to say if it was the LR because it's been so long ago. However I've tried coral many times over the years and they all die within a week.
I don't consider myself to be a newbbie anymore and feel like I do fine when it comes to water chemistry. I mix up the water, dose to make sure I have enough alk and calcium before I do the water change, plus I dose BRS two part daily. I slipped a bit on the alk which you can see by my numbers.
I feel that I did everything I could think of to fix this problem, and the amount of money I put into these corals over the years I should have a packed reef by now. I'm so frustrated.
I just setup a 40 gallon tank and mixed the salt. Just waiting for it to warm up, and I need to get the cal, alk, mag where they need to be and I will move this coral over but don't think it will make it. I'm going to get egg crate and prepare to buy $20-$30 frag to test the new water from the RO with my salt mix. From there will move rock from main system after a month or so to see what the effect will be on coral.
What coral do you all suggest for testing. Thinking something easy but not to easy so I can see the effects. I'm thinking zoos and stars would be to hardy. Although if they start growing like cray I would know it's not my water alone.

 

[shabbajh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJ http:///forum/thread/385231/at-a-loss/40#post_3377767
I would get a testing services to do a water analysis. Compare the results to known ocean water levels. I would also start a turf scrubber or refuge with macro algae to remove any heavy metals.
I also thought about sending my water out to a testing service. Also I have tried putting macro in my sump under a light but they die within a week. Crazy I know.

 

[nikesb]

even macro algae is dying...hmm
there must be something toxic in your tank, ask them to test for other toxins also

 

[shabbajh]

even macro algae is dying...hmm

there must be something toxic in your tank, ask them to test for other toxins also
Tell me about it! That's what we are trying to figure out and where it's coming from. Seems that popular belif is LR but haven't heard may other theroies. When I broke the tank down I cleaned the glass thoroughly.
Do you think the toxins will attach to the platic prices like plumbing, skimmer, bulkheads etc, or the glass and silicon?

 

[monsinour]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/385231/at-a-loss/20#post_3377757
Monsi, I would like to take a gander at that link if you don't mind. Currious to see what some of the issues are with them. Maybe its a certain type of rubbermaid? I know alot of folks do use that brand for water storage. Maybe its a particular one to stay away from.
So you were havig success with keeping corals before? And then you made a change and got a new tank, new rock and the containers and haven't had any luck since?
Rumor is the Brute cans are the ones causing the problems. It links to other forums as well for more info. I can say that Linda, in my local club, knows whats going on with tanks and whatnot. She is part of a 3 person team that are breeding clownfish for sale. Their new broodstock setup has something like 40 holding tanks, and more grow out tanks. What they do is amazing.
http://cdmas.org/forums/index.php?topic=8833.0
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Since the mixing cans and whatnot were the same in the 29 gallon and the only difference between the 2 systems is the LR (correct?) then I think I got it really. I am aware that there was something that fell into the tank that caused a problem. Like others have stated, LR is a sponge and will collect the contaminants. Eventually those contaminates will come back out of the rock to cause issues. Since tanks can leech copper back into the water many years down the road, doesnt it make sense that rocks can do the same thing? 10 gallon tanks are cheap. Get one, make some water for it, and get a fish and piece of coral in there. do not add anything from the other tank into that tank. If this new 10 gallon supports life with nothing from the other tank in it, then we know its not the water supply, mixing buckets, or salt you use. The culprit would then be in the big tank. I would start with removing all the rock from the big tank and setting it aside in a storage container with water covering it (as a precaution just in case the rock isnt the problem). Then add a piece of coral/fish to the tank to see if the sand is the problem. Continue to remove things from the tank until a coral/fish survives while storing what is taken out to be replaced. I have a hunch that you might have to replace the rock and sand for the system. I know it is expensive, but if it were my system, it is what I would do.

 

[geoj]

Well it would seam that there is no rush here so why rush to judgment? What ever it is, is in the water and can be tested for. The only thing would be to find a lab that is cheep enough to be worth doing it. Once you know what the problem is then you figure out how to deal with it else you may through good money after bad...

 

[shabbajh]

Rumor is the Brute cans are the ones causing the problems.  It links to other forums as well for more info.  I can say that Linda, in my local club, knows whats going on with tanks and whatnot.  She is part of a 3 person team that are breeding clownfish for sale.  Their new broodstock setup has something like 40 holding tanks, and more grow out tanks.  What they do is amazing.
 
http://cdmas.org/forums/index.php?topic=8833.0
 
-------------------------------------------------
 
Since the mixing cans and whatnot were the same in the 29 gallon and the only difference between the 2 systems is the LR (correct?) then I think I got it really.  I am aware that there was something that fell into the tank that caused a problem.  Like others have stated, LR is a sponge and will collect the contaminants.  Eventually those contaminates will come back out of the rock to cause issues.  Since tanks can leech copper back into the water many years down the road, doesnt it make sense that rocks can do the same thing?  10 gallon tanks are cheap.  Get one, make some water for it, and get a fish and piece of coral in there.  do not add anything from the other tank into that tank.  If this new 10 gallon supports life with nothing from the other tank in it, then we know its not the water supply, mixing buckets, or salt you use.  The culprit would then be in the big tank.  I would start with removing all the rock from the big tank and setting it aside in a storage container with water covering it (as a precaution just in case the rock isnt the problem).  Then add a piece of coral/fish to the tank to see if the sand is the problem.  Continue to remove things from the tank until a coral/fish survives while storing what is taken out to be replaced.  I have a hunch that you might have to replace the rock and sand for the system.  I know it is expensive, but if it were my system, it is what I would do.
I've setup a 40 Gallon today and working on getting the water correct. I assume since I will have to drain all of the water out of my large tank I will put my 5 fish into the small tank and add some coral to it while monitoring. The only thing with the small tank is it won't have sand or rock for filtration except a little hang on filter. I see lots of water changes in my future lol.

 

[shabbajh]

Any suggestion on a good water testing company?

 

[2quills]

Here's a place that offers free shipping both ways. http://www.enviroteklab.com/index.html

 

[shabbajh]

Here's a place that offers free shipping both ways. http://www.enviroteklab.com/index.html
I had no idea it was so expensive, but it does look like it may do the trick. However I can buy new rock for that price.

 

[2quills]

Yeah neither did I. But for actual lab results I wouldn't expect it to be cheap either. You've come this far so you might as well lol. 6 years of not being able to keep corals would have drivin me nutzo by now.
I'm thinking if you can keep your fish or better yet, maybe just try a couple of coral frags in this other tank and just use the same water source that you're using now (not your display tank water) then you should be able to determine that it's the water itself. And at that point is when I would send it off to test. After having your water containers for as long as you have, if they were the problem then I would be inclined to believe that what ever they leach has already been leached out by now. Now Monsi is eluding to Brute's being a problem, damn, sometimes I think he's just trying to scare me.

If it's not your water source then I would toss out all of the sand and rock in that tank. If your rocks are the problem then the sand is probably compromised as well.

 

[luvmyreef]

Well, after reading over this thread, I would like to add a couple things. One, if you thought it was heavy metals, chlorine,etc. you can add aquasafe to the water and see if that helps (although your skimmer will go nuts). Two, you seemed to of had this problem after setting up this large tank with the additional rock from ebay. Is the rock you bought from ebay real or man made? That could be the problem. Maybe removing the rock that you purchasd from ebay will put an end to your problem. Also, if it was any other contaminate, from your water or whatever your carbon would get it out of the system. And if I read correctly, you do use carbon right? If not, I would highly rec. it.

 

[shabbajh]

Yeah neither did I. But for actual lab results I wouldn't expect it to be cheap either. You've come this far so you might as well lol. 6 years of not being able to keep corals would have drivin me nutzo by now.

I'm thinking if you can keep your fish or better yet, maybe just try a couple of coral frags in this other tank and just use the same water source that you're using now (not your display tank water) then you should be able to determine that it's the water itself. And at that point is when I would send it off to test. After having your water containers for as long as you have, if they were the problem then I would be inclined to believe that what ever they leach has already been leached out by now. Now Monsi is eluding to Brute's being a problem, damn, sometimes I think he's just trying to scare me.

If it's not your water source then I would toss out all of the sand and rock in that tank. If your rocks are the problem then the sand is probably compromised as well.


Ok, that's what I will do.I hope after all that I will finally be successful. Thank you all for your help! You all have been great. If after proving it's not the water source and I throw away all the rock and sand, and still have a problem then I'm more clueless then I thought

 

[shabbajh]

Well, after reading over this thread, I would like to add a couple things. One, if you thought it was heavy metals, chlorine,etc. you can add aquasafe to the water and see if that helps (although your skimmer will go nuts). Two, you seemed to of had this problem after setting up this large tank with the additional rock from ebay. Is the rock you bought from ebay real or man made? That could be the problem. Maybe removing the rock that you purchasd from ebay will put an end to your problem. Also, if it was any other contaminate, from your water or whatever your carbon would get it out of the system. And if I read correctly, you do use carbon right? If not, I would highly rec. it.
Thank you for chiming in. Will this aqua safe resolve the problem with the LR. The rock is real cultured rock. It looked good. I'm thinking they got contaminated from the rust that was found in the tank. I didn't know that the rock would have been ruined from this. I figured once I removed the metal from the tank, cleaned it and put it back together I would have been fine. Now of course the metal wasn't in the tank from day one so I can't be sure and the details from back then are cloudy.
I would purchase again through eBay considering I can get 50lb for $99, where as LFS is charging 6lb a pound.

 

[luvmyreef]

Well In my opinion, if it is heavy metals or chlorine, the aquasafe will help. It is a water conditioner for marine or fresh water tanks. It can be put in with each water change. I would def. look into it. It states on the bottle that chlorine is eliminated and heavy metals such as copper, zinc, and iron are neutralized. Worth a try? Oh, I was just ruling out man made rock as the problem, not knocking you for buying it. This hobby isnt cheap!

 

[shabbajh]

Hello Everyone, I thought I would give everyone an update as to where I am at this point. I spent the day on Monday setting up a 40 Gallon tank that I don't use for anything. It's never had Medication in it or anything. I decided to go this route because I have medicated my QT tank in the past. After the tank was setup up I tested my water for alk, cal, mag, and ph. Which needed to be dosed to get the right numbers. Over the course of the day I slowly dosed the tank to get the numbers up. Currently my numbers are.
Alk = 9.9
Cal = 420
Mag =1400
PH = 8.1
I got two frags and put them in the tank last evening and this morning they look great. Here are two pictures I took.


I will monitor these frags for about a month or so and see how they do. If all is well I suppose the next step would be to remove the livestock from the large tank and put in small tank, empty the large tank including the sand and the rock and put in trash cans with water and clean the glass. Put it all back together with new water and move over the livestock into big tank without LR or sand and see how they do. If everything is fine get new sand and LR and see how that goes.
Sound like a plan? Anyone have any other suggestions to the order or step I've laid out? Unless you all think I should go right to new sand and LR and skip the empty tank with livestock step.

 

[cranberry]

I honestly think I would just ditch it and start anew. Of course, economics is a big old beast on everyone's shoulder lately, and that simply may not be possible.

 

[shabbajh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranberry http:///forum/thread/385231/at-a-loss/40#post_3378229
I honestly think I would just ditch it and start anew. Of course, economics is a big old beast on everyone's shoulder lately, and that simply may not be possible.
Are you saying you would buy a new aquarium, skimmer, plumbing, sump, and pumps, the whole works, not to mention my ocean motions and bulk heads? Yeah if I needed to do that I would sell everything and say to hell with it. Already invested thousands upon thousands. You don't feel that's over kill? Shouldn't just replacing the sand and LR be enough. You think that whatever is causing the problem has now contaminated the plastic, silcon, glass and PVC of the other components?