bad or good idea for refugium

[cowabonga]

i was just planning to do just a 10 gallon refugium. I was wondering if i can use a powerhead to bring the water to the refugium and anothe powerhead to bring the water back up. The two powerheads will be identical....is this a bad idea>?. Which powerheads do you recommend me use for this idea. How fast of a flow. My tank is a 72 gallon with no sump. Would i be able to put the heater in the refugium? Would the flow be strong enough for it to heat the main tank? Thanks

 

[krux]

the reason this is not recommended is that if the going up powerhead stops working, your fuge will flood and spill water all over the floor until the tank water line drops below the level of the powerhead in the tank. also you could get a spihon going in the case of a power outage, also causing a flood.
if the going down powerhead stops working, the one pumping up will pump the fuge dry, burning its self out and causing everything in the fuge to die from not being in water.
also, 2 powerheads of the same size will not move the same ammount of water, as there will be head pressure on the one pumping up, but not on the one pumping down.
your only two real options for getting water safely out of a tank and into a fuge is either by using an overflow from the tank down to the fuge, or have the fuge above the tank, and have it drain via gravity through a bulkhead hole back into the tank. in either of these circumstances, if the pump goes out, you will not have a flooding problem.
believe me i tried for a long time to figure out a safe and cheap way to do this using powerheads, and its just not feasible.
HTH
p.s. if you can not drill your 10 gallon tank, you can always go to walmart or office depot or what not and get a clear plastic file box. the one i bought when playing around with fuge design was about 8 bucks, was see-through, and held about 8 gallons. this you can cut a bulkhead hole in with a drill, i used a dremel even, meaning ou dont have to deal with drilling glass. bulkheads are 5-10 dollars from a plumbing supply store, online, or a larger home improvement store. powerhead about 20 bucks. an elbow and tubing from the bulkhead is like 4 bucks... so you are looking at about 30 bucks for a fuge, not including light... thats pretty cheap and its an easy diy.
lotsa help to be found on fuges in the equipment and diy section if ya got more questions.

 

[krux]

here is a fast sketch of an above tank refuge and the flow pattern using the above design.

 

[danrw84]

no way. dont use powerheads to xfer the water down
you need an overflow..this way it will catch the water..
think about it..more water will pump down...then will pump up. due to gravity.
you can do an above tank refugium where you use a powerhead to pump to that, and a simple bulkhead and a hose to syphon water back. that would be perfect. can you do something above tank?

 

[broncofish]

That design would be a disaster. If something gets clogged in either pump your hosed.

 

[attml]

I just set up my fuge today and here is the system I set up. All is working well so far!

 

[mh]

I recommend gravity feed back to the main tank. I had lfs manufacture one for 40$. it's only 14in tall 4 1/2in wide by 16in lenth hang on back.
it would be nice to have a big fuge but a small one gravity feed benifts more. the benifits to gravity feed is copods are delivered into the display tank living for fish to feed on - not dead through a power head. if you have a small tank such as myself a 25g and want to have plenty of food for a mandrian

 

[broncofish]

My pods live fine through the return pump up, so thats not a huge difference, the safety factor would be IMO

 

[cowabonga]

i have a 72 gallon bowfront. I think imma do the sump refugium idea. How fast should the flow rate be. How fast should the water flow and down..and what type of pump to bring it back up? Where do you also get those plexi glass divider thingys? And what type of glue do you use? Thanks.

 

[cowabonga]

what is also the best brand of overflow?

 

[snowbear]

I agree with the rest of these guys. Although there IS a way you can use 2 powerheads, it is not simple or cheap. I would involve dual float switches that would shut off each powerhead depending on tank/fuge levels.
Originally posted by krux
also, 2 powerheads of the same size will not move the same ammount of water, as there will be head pressure on the one pumping up, but not on the one pumping down.

Actually, head pressure DOES work in both directions - It would INCREASE the flow on the "down" pump and DECREASE the flow on the "UP" or return pump.
i have a 72 gallon bowfront. I think imma do the sump refugium idea. How fast should the flow rate be. How fast should the water flow and down..and what type of pump to bring it back up? Where do you also get those plexi glass divider thingys? And what type of glue do you use? Thanks.
You can get dividers cut to size at a shop that sells acrylic. Depending on what your sumpugium is made of (glass/plastic/acrylic) will determine what glue you use. Usually Silicone is adequate for this application.
I've seen varying opinions on flow, and mine is not yet perfected, so I will leave that answer to someone with more experience than me . No idea what brand of overflow is best. I bought a DIY one that someone on this board was making for awhile and it works great. I know nothing about the various brands out there so once again, I'll turf that question....

 

[attml]

Cowabunga,
I have only had mine set up for a few days, but i like the Lifereef Overflow Box that I have set up a lot. I had heard a lot of good things about them and so far so good!

 

[cowabonga]

how do i know the flow rate that i need? How fast should water be coming down? and fast should it be pumped back up? Thanks guys

 

[krishj39]

just thought I'd add my refugium diagram as food for thought, it's basically what has already been suggested to you. Mine has been working great for me so far.

 

[broncofish]

Heres what it is going to look like under my 90g tommorrow when I add a spraybar, and dual overflows.

 

[broncofish]

IMO DVS has one of the best above refugiums I've laid eyes on. If your going to go above tank I recomend copying his design. Hey Chad what's up with the moonlights, have anypics yet.

 

[broncofish]

Cool, yeah my wife is the same way, wait til I get home and tell her I just bought some more VHO

 

[cowabonga]

lol...great fuge and design!!
but no one answered my flow rate question yet

 

[broncofish]

I've heard 4X turn over is good. Example 10g tank, move 40g of water an hour. That seems low, and I had a cyano outbreak at that rate(could be, or could not be related) I run mine now at a 7x turnover and I am happy

 

[cowabonga]

so should the flow rate down be 7x and going up 7x too? Or should it be even more overrated? Thanks for your time. Also im kind of a newbie to plumbing. What are ball Valves? durso pipe? Is there a site that explains all this? Thanks again