bangaii cardinal babies DIED

[anthropo]

my bangaii cardinals had eggs in the mouth, so i decided to take the male out and put him in the qt tank until he released them. well when i netted him, he released all the eggs into the net. so i let him lose and kept the eggs in the net. well i left the eggs in the net so that the net part of the net was still in the tank so that i didn't have to put them in the qt tank just yet. well i decided to put the eggs in a collection cup and let them hatch in there. they did and they were all tryin to swim as soon as they hatched and still had their egg sacs on their bellies. i put an air stone in the collection cup and went to work. by the way the collection cup was filled with the tank water and was about a half gallon size. i came home from work and they were all dead. they lived for less than 24 hours and the water was heated. what did i do wrong? is there a better way to raise them? i didn't want to put them in the qt tank until i could put a sponge around the part that sucks the water up.

 

[anthropo]

bump

 

[nick76]

Im thinking maybe they might need the parent even after birth and they didnt have them and so they died.

 

[fishgeek01]

They do not need the parent after birth as they are left to themselvs in the wild. you need to get in touch with the moderator bang guy, he has been successfully raising baby bangaiis for a while, i am currently trying to raise mine the way he has told me to

 

[bang guy]

You appently hatched the eggs and that's the hard part. They still had egg yoke so they certainly didn't starve.
It could be that the water was too turbulent for them. A breeder net hanging in the aquarium with a bit of flow through the breeder net has been proven to work well.
After they hatch a 10 gallon tank set up & cycled will work. They can begin eating as soon as the yolk sac is gone: 3 - 5 days after hatching.
A couple suggestion for next time.
1 - wait until you can see baby fish in dad's mouth before catching him.
2 - catch him at night.
3 - Use the net only to steer dad into a clear container, don't catch him in the net.

 

[fishgeek01]

THANKS BANG GUY for replying quickly to the email i sent you always appreciated, i am having zero luck as my male contiues to eat the eggs exactly 4 days after they are in his mouth. he has done this with the last 8 broods, any suggestions

 

[diablo]

the micro bubbles from the airstone could have killed them as well

 

[anthropo]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
You appently hatched the eggs and that's the hard part. They still had egg yoke so they certainly didn't starve.
It could be that the water was too turbulent for them. A breeder net hanging in the aquarium with a bit of flow through the breeder net has been proven to work well.
After they hatch a 10 gallon tank set up & cycled will work. They can begin eating as soon as the yolk sac is gone: 3 - 5 days after hatching.
A couple suggestion for next time.
1 - wait until you can see baby fish in dad's mouth before catching him.
2 - catch him at night.
3 - Use the net only to steer dad into a clear container, don't catch him in the net.
thank you for the tips...i guess i'll have to wait another month or so to try it out again...oh by the way how long about do the eggs stay in the fathers mouth?

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by anthropo
thank you for the tips...i guess i'll have to wait another month or so to try it out again...oh by the way how long about do the eggs stay in the fathers mouth?
21 - 28 days depending on water temp.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Fishgeek01
THANKS BANG GUY for replying quickly to the email i sent you always appreciated, i am having zero luck as my male contiues to eat the eggs exactly 4 days after they are in his mouth. he has done this with the last 8 broods, any suggestions
If dad is eating the eggs so quickly then either the dad is starving or mom isn't getting good nutrition.
Can you seperate the fish and overfeed both for a month or so? This will allow the male to bulk up. He doesn't eat much while he has eggs so if they breed often he doesn't get a chance to regain his health before he has another batch of eggs.
What are you feeding the Banggai?

 

[kaseykagan]

This sounds really interesting! We have a 155gal with one Bangaii. If we get another will they pair up?

 

[fishgeek01]

I am currently feeding a regimen of frozen mysis, brine, bloodworms, and baby brine. Some frozen rotifers also. they get fed 2 times a day and are always hungary it seems. He is in my reef with my other inhabitants so not likely i can seperate. it is a 75 gallon reef set up for 2.5 yrs, he has been in there for about 1 yr. they breed like clockwork every 25 days or so, he holds for 4 days every time, and on the night of the 5th day he eats the eggs or spits them out somewhere and they get eaten. I am currently a little overstocked in my tank but will be taking 4 fish out when i move in a month or so. One factor that i am sure is stressing him is that i have the pair and i also have a seperate male. when my larger male gets preg. the smaller one procedes to try and mate with the female i will add more later i am at work and i have a customer brb

 

[fishgeek01]

Ok to continue with what i was saying, (hate it that i only have internet at work)
So yeah my smaller male will try to mate with her, and they stay together on one side while my big male stays on the other side. The only time my big male seems stressed is when i feed the tank. He obviously does not eat but all the action seems to make him a little nuts. tank stays at a constant 80-81 degrees salinity fluctuates between 1.024 and 1.025 between top offs, not usually that much of a jump, all parameters at zero except nitrates slightly elevated at 5 ppm not bad though. I am getting ready to add a 30 gal fug and a protein skimmer. this will be in the next few weeks. any advice would be appreciated thanks in advance BANG GUY

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by kaseykagan
This sounds really interesting! We have a 155gal with one Bangaii. If we get another will they pair up?
If the one you add is the opposite --- then they will pair. Two males will fight to the death though so be careful.

 

[bang guy]

Fishgeek -
Hold off on the brine. You could try mincing some scallops and see if he will eat that. It's nutrient dense.
Target feed the male using a turkey baster. He will eventually associate the baster with food. Feed him at dusk and at dawn if you can. Feed him one piece of food at a time until he ignores the food.
Try turning on all the lights in your tank a few hours after the tank has been totally dark (no room lights either). Typically the male will wander around in a daze for a few minutes under that circumstance. If yours does it too then that's a very easy time to catch them.

 

[fishgeek01]

Thanks BANG one more question for you.
Have you had any luck with feeding frozen baby brine to your fry? I know that primarily you have to feed live baby brine, which i will do, but what about the frozen?
Could i start with the live and at each feeding mix in a little of the frozen until i am feeding only frozen foods? Do you think that would even work? May make the process of rearing a little easier.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Fishgeek01
Thanks BANG one more question for you.
Have you had any luck with feeding frozen baby brine to your fry? I know that primarily you have to feed live baby brine, which i will do, but what about the frozen?
Could i start with the live and at each feeding mix in a little of the frozen until i am feeding only frozen foods? Do you think that would even work? May make the process of rearing a little easier.
I try to avoid live food for the fry. I use frozen prawn eggs. Luckily hungry baby Banggai test just about everything to see if it's food. If you start them off on live baby brine then they will be reluctant to try dead food.
Sometimes the fry are born too small to eat Prawn eggs. This usually is because I get lazy about feeding the female enough good food. When this happens I will use baby brine. After that it takes at least a week to ween them off live food and get them eating frozen food.
Brine shrimp is only OK for a few days. If you keep feeding them baby brine, frozen or not, then will have health problems like Fright Death syndrome or swim bladder disease.
Keep some large Fireworms in the bottom of the grow-out tank to consume the excess food before it rots. Banggai don't usually pick food off the bottom so once it hits the bottom it will rot unless you remove it or a detrivore eats it.

 

[bronco300]

hey guys, is there a way to tell between female and male indefinitely? I'm hoping to get a pair to add to my 75gal realm.

 

[fishgeek01]

unless you have had a little bit of experience with adult cardinals it is difficult to tell, especially since the ones you will most likely be buying will be juvies, or sub adults. Look at the way the dorsal fin is held, the males will hold it vertical, while the females will hold it at a slight angle. Also the male is more square in the face, when looking at it from the side, where as the female is more rounded. my male is also a little bit taller in the body, where as my female is kind of squat and stocky... hope this helps, there really is no way to tell 100 percent i think. but keep asking, bang guy knows way more than i do, he may know the secret

 

[fishgeek01]

also if you need a male i have an extra we could meet in greenwood and trade sometime if you want as well, always up for that, i am thinking baout making a trip up there tomorrow as a matter of fact