Beth, I read your hypo instr. but still have questions

fisharemypals

New Member
oh and please tell me whether this should have its own thread.
I noticed beth was disturbed that many threads were created with the same or similar situation.
I need as many suggestions as possible.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
You're kind of jumping all over the place with questions....looking for a solution to your ich problem obviously.
From my view, your option is copper or hyposalinity. There are not too many different ways I can tell you this. In the end, you need decide what to do. Other hobbyists may try different things that you can explore if you want to but in the end, you're going to have to decide what you want to do.
 

salt nate

Member
Ok....If I do copper with just my sand in there now and I eventually want a reef, can I remove the sand/bio balls and start over later ????
sorry, two questions coming...Beware....
can burrfish, banners, powder browns, hippos take copper?
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Don't do copper treatment for puffers. They don't handle it very well. Problem with treating the display with copper is that it gets absorbed into everything, like the plastic silicone in the tank and your sump and your plastic plumbing, powerheads, pump. Very hard to get out completely, it takes years.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
I think that's ok but you should ask on the other forums to make sure.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
I have never used the product that -- has mentioned and have not done research on it, but seriously your best bet is hyposalinity in the display. Refractometers are not expensive at all online. My fear is that you will spend more money dumping chemicals into your tank than you would if you just bought the refractometer.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Some info on QS I found online.
Quinine Sulfate is a human drug, sold with prescription. It was once used to treat malaria and now is used to treat other things like arthritis for example. Because of its effectiveness in treating ich, it is now starting to be sold for aquarium use, without prescription by different online stores. It is a one time only treatment, meaning you put the right dosage in the tank ONCE and that's it. You can repeat if necassary as per the instructions. I've seen it sold for $15 online.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2832413
Some info on QS I found online.
Quinine Sulfate is a human drug, sold with prescription. It was once used to treat malaria and now is used to treat other things like arthritis for example. Because of its effectiveness in treating ich, it is now starting to be sold for aquarium use, without prescription by different online stores. It is a one time only treatment, meaning you put the right dosage in the tank ONCE and that's it. You can repeat if necassary as per the instructions. I've seen it sold for $15 online.
People claim that this works? How long has it been available for aquarium use? I hate to be skeptical but we have seen a lot of "cures" come and go. This doesn't sound too promising to me. At what stage of the life cycle does it claim to effect the parasite?
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Quinine Sulfate was first recommended to me by Bob Fenner, about 6 months ago when I had my ich outbreak in the 65gal tank. I sent him an email telling him about my problem and how I was not able to move the fish to a QT. He said I should use Quinine Sulfate. I never did use it, instead I went with the control method.
Then last week, I was reading over on another forum a member said that she uses it all the time. Her prefered method to treat ich in QT where she also has some LR and inverts. She's someone who's been doing this for a long time, so I took what she said as fact.
That's all I really know about it.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
I haven't heard of it before. Did you ask her how long she has been using it? A lot of things come and go. Sugar dosing is coming to mind right now. There was a post about it and many people jumped on the bandwagon without thoroughly researching it. Sure, it works for awhile until your system crashes unless you do it just how you are supposed to. As for ich treatment, there have been so many "miracle cures" that have come in and out of style it isn't even funny. None have been proved to work so far other than the same old Copper and Hyposalinity treatments.
 

salt nate

Member
sep, I was a skeptical as you, but there are some real knowledgable people out there that totally vouche for the stuff. It is supposed to kill ALL life cycles of ich, period.
 

salt nate

Member
I really do want to believe and I am a point, unfortunately that i am willing to try it. --, please report back...I contacted lisa d with no reply yet???
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by salt nate
http:///forum/post/2833570
sep, I was a skeptical as you, but there are some real knowledgable people out there that totally vouche for the stuff. It is supposed to kill ALL life cycles of ich, period.
That is quite a claim. Copper nor hyposalinity can do that. They are saying that you do not have to treat in a QT? How does that work? How can it claim to kill a parasite, which is an invert, at all stages of it's life yet not kill anything else in the tank? It doesn't sound possible to me. One bottle costs $15 right? How many bottles will you have to buy to treat your 75?
 

salt nate

Member
despite the manufacturers claims, a VERY knowledgeable lady(whos been keeping marine life since the 70's) says that it does kill many inverts and that it really knocks the bioload down.
10% water changes daily while the treatment is going on(7-9 days) to keep things safe. If this country is willing to take the risk of electing a socialist, then I am willing to put this in my tank. after all....if they start taking my money and sending it to people who dont work, then I will not have tanks anymore anyway,.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Well, I think it's wrong to close our eyes and be against all future and present forms of ich treatment except copper and hypo. After all, medicine research advances.... back in the days peope died from cold and flu. Now you have medicine for those. lol I say be open minded, some will work others won't. But if we are so close minded not to give anything else a try, we will never know.
I spoke to this person and quinine is supposed to treat like copper but safer on inverts and doesn't get absorbed by LR and LS like copper. There have been reports of some inverts dying from it, mostly shrimp and bristle worms. Which is why it's a good idea to take any valuable inverts out before treatment. It also works a little slower than copper, but reports say it does work.
So personally, the next time I need to treat a fish for ich, whenever that may be, I will try this to see if it works. Too bad I'm almost finished treating my new trigger with copper, or I would have tried it now. Quinine may work, it may not... but how will I know unless I try it?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
RCreations, it is not wrong to be conservative with administering any type of medications in a fish tank. Your comments sounds like it is ok to view the display tank as a place where experimenting with medications is ok? And it is most certainly not ok. Personally, I tend to trust more those who have actually conducted real experiments under controlled circumstances and who have considerable experience and expertise with marine health and diseases, and not advocate for hobbyists to experiment (especially new hobbyists). Fenner, at best, gives quinine based drugs a mixed outcome, especially when administering it in a display tank. Expect some mortalities of invertebrates and perhaps unknown long term effects to your system. Quinine Hydrochloride is used more for Amyloodinium aka marine velvet. Amyloodinium also is commonly referred to as “ich”. However, it is not Cryptocaryon irritans (the white spot ich that is being discussed in this topic).
Quinine based drugs are typically used to treat malaria in humans, and they do have some off label uses in treating immune diseases in humans. I had even wondered if they might be effective in treating HLLE since there is an immune factor with that disease. But that is off topic here.
People can try anything they want with their own fish tanks. That doesn’t mean its alright, or even preferable. No “expert” will ever say that putting medications in your fish tank is ok compared to quarantining and treating the fish outside of the display system. Hobbyists, however, diving headlong into this hobby instead of taking careful steps and researched preparation, end up with only half the equipment they need to be effective in this hobby. Thus, they have to deal with problems such as this one, ich in their display tanks.
The quinine based drugs do appear to have a degree of effectiveness. They have been used in display tanks, but with some invertebrate mortalities. They still do not reach the effectiveness levels of copper and hyposalinity, and they certainly are not as safe for fish as hyposalinity and treating your fish in a well established quarantine tank.
Salt nate, at some point, you’re just going to have to decide what to do with your situation, and take the responsibility for the outcome—good or bad.
This topic is a testament as to why the hobbyist should ensure that they have everything they need before adding marine animals to their display. At the top of the "need to have list" is a refractometer and a well cycled quarantine tank.
Please do not take my comments here personally or as a slap down. My comments are more directed to all those who silently read topics at SWF.com and may come away with the impression that some of things expressed here are viable options, when, in my view, they are not. For whatever its worth.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Beth, I have no plans to run experiments on my DT. When I have the chance, I will try Quinine Sulfate in a QT, in a controlled environment, without any inverts. This way I can first see if it will work or not.
 
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