Biowheels are great: prove me wrong

[kris walker]

Hey everyone,
Why are biowheels bad? Yes, I've heard the reasoning before--they are nitrate factories. But if biowheels do their job and convert ammon/trite into trate, why are they considered bad? Yes they are "nitrate factories" in the sense that they help do something LR and a DSB will do (process ammon/trite). But they do not collect detritus to sit and decay away if used properly (with a cartridge).
Of course a DSB and large chunks of LR will also process trates. So in that sense, they are better than biowheels. But that doesn't make biowheels bad.
Why does everyone always suggest to people, some of which have large bioloads like Tiffany and could use the extra ammon/trite processing capacity, to remove the biowheels? Simply calling them a nitrate factory is a moot point because that is what they are suppose to do, and that is a GOOD thing.
sam

 

[chevron tang]

Personally I see nothing wrong with biowheels. If you have a DSB though and maybe a skimmer then I see no need in having them once your tank is cycled and running.

 

[broomer5]

Not everyone in this hobby can immediatly run out and drop a $1000.00 dollars on live rock, protein skimmers, expensive lighting, etc.
IMO - That should in no way prevent them from keeping a marine tank.
Although live rock -DSB's and more natural biofiltration will give them better results with less maintenance and water quality fluctuations, the use of hang on biowheel type power filters may be their only affordable choice.
If they understand the limitations of these powerfilters, and want to start a simple salt tank, by all means do so.
just my 2 cents
Brian

 

[q]

That is a good point. LR is a nitrate factory. The difference to me though I would rather have a place for my pods to live and increase the life in the tank. Stuff can build up on the rock but that is what a clean-up crew is for IMO. I have never had a biowheel but anything in the tank that isn't cleaned off will build up waste and needs to be cleaned off regardless.
As far a the bio load goes. If you can't process the nitrates you are overstocked and adding more aerobic space for bacteria deosn't cover up the fact that the tank it too full. There will be other problems. Not bashing Tiffinay as I have no clue what is in the tank just using a situation to depate a bit.

 

[hondo]

I couldn't agree with you more. seems to me that all types of filtration convert nitrite/amonia to nitrates. look at live rock it does the exact same thing as a biowheel and does nothing to reduce nitrates yet no one considers live rock a "nitrate factory". Only the DSB converts the nitrates so every other kind of filtration is basically a "nitrate factory".

 

[fshhub]

IMO
biowheels are great filters for those starting out, who do not have the resources for all the other goodies, as mentioned, they do convert amm and nitrte into nitrate, so for a fo, go for it, i just feel a good dsb and lr are better (but more costly)
the lr and dsb are just a better more natural option, which has the added benefits of shelter and housing for pods and fish, appearance and a place to build a reef
IMO biowheels are not BAD, but just not the BEST option, we ahd one, but now use it for only circulation and the occasional carbon
and with lr and a dsb, ifeel there is no need for them(in addition to lr and a dsb)

 

[predator]

It all depends.I mean what works for one might not work for another.I started out with bio wheels and have since removed them because I felt that with my dsb and live rock I could.But for months I did not have alot of live rock nor a dsb.And if those bio wheels work for you then by all means use them.And for those of you like myself who are not then so be it.I know having them helped me out in more ways than one.Not only on my reef but they cycled a tanks in less than 36 hours.

 

[kelly]

Q,
What do you mean LR is a nitrate factory? Are you sure, I mean really sure? I have always heard the opposite, that they are good for removing nitrates, maybe I was given bad information.

 

[coraltrapper5020]

There is no bad filters, just better ways to use them. if you are running a fish only tank use what you have. In a reef tank make sure you a tools to deal with all problems, Nitrates are easy to remove, I use micro algae. Other probles can fuel other algaes like cyno. So what do you want to feed, pretty micro algea or ugly slim algae?

 

[diatom]

The real problem with Biowheels IMO is that they are an incomplete filtering system.
Now if you have a fish only system, always do water changes you are in fine shape.
If you have a reef system with nitrate sensitive creatures in it then the biowheel really doesn't work over the long hall.
On the other hand a DSB/LR combo isn't right for a lot of ageressive setups either.
It really depends on what kind of a system you are running as to what's appropriate to you. Each person has to evaluate what's best for their tank.

 

[q]

Kelly
I was wondering if anyone was going to try to catch me
I too have read that inside of the rock some nitrate reduction would/could take place but they cannot do it well enough to keep up with 99.9% of the tanks out there. This is why you need a DSB/Plenium.
So I still stand by my statement.

 

[tombraider118]

I AGREE WITH SURFIN SAM I AM CURRENTLY CHANGING MY TEN GALLON TANK TO A NANO REEFER AND I'M USEING A BIOWHEEL FOR MY FILTER AND NOT A CANASTER FILTER!! IT WORKS AWESOME AND THEY WATER IS CLEAR AND DON'T HAVE TO CLEAN OFF MUCH ALGEA!!

 

[wally]

I agree Bio-Wheels ROCK! I am using 2 Emperor 400s on my 55 and they are doing an awesome job while turning over 800gph per hour! Also why not set one up with a DSB or Plenum? Thats what I did. The bio-wheels transform the ammonia into nitrtie/nitrate and then my DSB converts it over to nitrogen.
Here are some pics

By using the biowheels I am able to get by with far less live rock which leaves more open area for fish to swim in. Less rock also means more room for water which makes the whole system more stable.

 

[kris walker]

Just to back up what Kelly heard, I only have 2 inch of CC at the most, and I do have a small-intermediate bioload, which over the months, should have accumulated nitrate by now, but it has not. It has to be going somewhere. So it is either getting sucked up by my 1.5 lbs/gal of LR or it is being processed by a little anerobic activity in my CC under the big chuncks of LR.
There are also people who have no substrate and only LR with 0 nitrates, or so I've heard.
I would wager that LR does process nitrate, but not as efficiently as a DSB. So a DSB has a greater capacity.
sam

 

[headabovewater]

Ive got a 55g that I recently coverted to a FO/Soft coral tank so far. Im still using my Biowheel Pro 60 with it. I have around 55 lbs of LR plus I bought a skilter combo skimmer(cheap), but it skims I dont care what anyone says. Only draw back to it is the tiny airbubbles it releases and its a little noisy, but I cut the skimmer part off during the day. My systems been up 2 months and AM NI and NA are all 0ppm! After the cycle the nitrates have been at 0 and have stayed there.

 

[kelly]

It's me again. Being an old salt, not far from 50, I set up my current tank years ago, more that I care to remember with 1" or crushed coral, UG filter, and lots of live rock.
I have not cleaned/syphoned the CC in the past year or 2, have never cleaned out the UG, and have zero nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia. Something is keeping the nitrates down. I attribute it to the live rock. A little while ago, I searched the web for the answer to the nitrate/live rock question, and it came back with mixed results. I would like to say all in my favor, but not true.
Like Surfin Sam said, there are many people who use no substrate very successfully, and have beautiful tanks. There must be some truth to the matter of LR removing nitrates.
Surfin Sam, back to your original question biowheels in a wet dry system are indeed nitrate factories. They do not remove it, to much oxygen for the anerobic bacteria to live in/on them. Aerobic bacteria will be on the biowheels, and convert ammonia into nitrite and then into nitrate. There is no way for them to remove nitrates. This is where the problem comes in. I think that the statement was not meant for the biowheels themselves, but for wet dry filtration systems.
It has been a while since I have looked at the actual system, but I do not remember a way to actually remove the nitrates. I do not remember an area for the anerobic bacteria to multiply and remove the nitrates that are produced. With the advent of the DSB, I have forgot alot about the wet/dry systems and have no desire to research it. If you wish more info, just search the web for wet/dry systems.

 

[kris walker]

Hi Kelly,
I agree with you. My point was that while someone may not need biowheels as used in box filters, they do not harm the tank in any way. They can only help.
sam

 

[bbreaux1]

ive set up my tank with a 400 emporer biowhell filter and 4inch dsb gonna see how it goes

 

[adrian]

No offense, but you all are beating a dead fish The reason bio media is veiwed as "bad" is due to the fact that it cannot harbor the bacteria that breaks nitrates into free nitrogen. A dsb does, and so does live rock to a point, there are low oxygen zones in the depths of LR. LR may be a nitrate factory in theory, but not near as much as bio media that is exposed to open air and is void of any low oxygen zones, you also have to remember current plays a large role in live rock, if your getting a trmendous build up of sediment on your live rock its probably due to a lack of flow. You must also keep in mind that bio media does not harbor the mas of critters that LR does, ie these creatures live off the wastes collected by LR, bio balls might not have such a problem with accumulating wastes if there were such a thing as "Live bio media". Im stumped as to why every one thinks bio media will support a larger bio load over sand? With the surface area of sand, youll run out of water before you run out of room for bacteria Granted thats an exageration, but there are so many more variables that come into play with bio load than just space for bacteria colonization.
Sam, I dont think there is a dipute over whether or not bio media has its place in filtration, I think the only debate is that its useless in conjunction with a DLSB. Now Im not sure if this is a myth or a fact, but In the past Ive read that tanks using a DLSB and bio media still accumulate nitrates because the bacteria on the media out competes the bacteria in the sand. If this is true, I dont see it being any different no matter how thick the substrate is, ie bio media may even disrupt denitrfication.
Sammy, that remark about the glass was great So true!

 

[jond]

Over the past three weeks, I have removed my bio-wheel from my Emperor 280 and switched my CC to DLSB. My nitrates have been cut in half already.