Boiling tap water. ok?

swlover

Member

Originally Posted by NYTrillium
hehe.... I get off on tangents.
I noticed you are from up state NY..where at if you don't mind? I was born and raised in Tillson NY near Kingston. Oh and I used to boil water for FW..along time ago but found it was very time consuming...and Start right is easier LOL, just to add to the thread.
 

nytrillium

Member
I'm from "UP"state.. In the adirondack park. Warrensburg, its about 5 minutes north of Lake George, and an hour north of Albany.
 

swlover

Member
Me Too, Kingston area..I used to live in Grahamsville near where the first woodstock was held. Humm small world.
 

nytrillium

Member
I love the Adirondacks, i was born in Glens Falls and i have lived here my whole life. I love camping, hiking, and canoing up here. There's just so much to do and you can get so far away from everything. Lots of great mountains to hike and awesome scenery for pictures.
 

mystic7

Member
I lived in Rockland County in the '60's, about as close to NYC as you can get and still be considered "upstate". I LOVED it there, in fact it was just an 80 mile drive to the first Woodstock which me and my friends went to (or tried. We left on that Friday, by then the closest we could get was about 10 miles away on Rt. 17B).
Anyway, the point is I LOVE upstate NY too and it's the reason I left Florida and moved to N.C. 2 months ago. Very similar atmosphere, 1/3 the price :)
 

nytrillium

Member
My view of "upstate" is a little different than yours. I guess where ilive could be considered the "way in the middle of nowhere" part of the state. But i love it here too. Have you ever visited?
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
ok, wow did this thread get off topic, but i'm not one to talk about that.
As is stated before, boiling water does absolutely nothing. Neither does water conditioner. Water conditioner does not remove any metals from the water, it simply coats those metals (kinda the same way soap removes grease and dirt - coates the grease so it won't stick to your clothes anymore, and then is washed away). since you're not 'washing away' the coated minerals and metals in the water, they're still there, just not detectable. The coating of conditioner just makes it so the metals will not affect a test kit... after a while, that conditioner wears off and stops sticking to the dissolved minerals, and that's when it's a problem in your tank.
having said that, boiling water will actually increase the concentration of minerals in the water. When water boils, only the water evaporates, leaving the minerals behind. If you boil a pot of tap water until all of the water is gone, you'll find a coating of crap on the bottom of the pot.
If you don't mind an algae outbreak in the future, go ahead using tap water, but i can guarantee you'll have algae problems, and those are a major pain in the rear-end!
 

debbie

Active Member
May I ask a question regarding this water? In the ocean for instance the water source from there comes either from rain or water run off that is of course freshwater. When it enters the ocean from run off it goes over rocks, debris etc. This stuff contains metal and minerals. So the ocean water is certainly not RO water.
So where did it come up that our saltwater quariums must have RO or RO/DI water?
I phoned three of our LFS whom all have saltwater tanks, one which is a huge saltwater LFS and asked them about their water changes within the store. The one large store that is into saltwater big time thought I was nuts to do the RO water, he said that of all the tanks in the store he has never used RO water and in his tank at home which is 300 gal he does not use RO water just aged tap water.
His question to me was the exact same as I have stated above. "Does the oean contain RO water"?
Don't flame me, I am just curious as to why it is so important to use this type of water when mother nature sure does not.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
the ocean is so big an vast that it doesn't matter that there's some minerals in it. Also, the ocean doesn't care if it gets algae outbreaks. The ocean is so much different than a reef tank for many reasons, so comparing the ocean to a fish tank isn't comparing apples to apples. It's like comparing a regular tree to a bonsai tree. Bonsai trees need a lot more attention and care than a regular tree does, because it's being kept in a tiny pot. By keeping a tree that is designed to be in a bigger environment in a much smaller one, it's going to require more care, just as a fish tank requires more care.
There is also a much larger concentration of these minerals in tap water than in the ocean. I'm sure if you measured the ocean water against tap water, these minerals will be almost undetected in the ocean. If you were to then add millions of pounds of minerals to the ocean to equal the concentration of those same minerals in tap water, there would be a problem in the ocean...
By using the reasoning that "the ocean doesn't have RO water" to justify the use of tap water, then you should also say "we don't need to do water changes because no one does water changes in the ocean". You know that's not true, because if you don't do water changes in your tank, your fish will die.
The minerals in tap water aren't toxic or deadly or anything (except chlorine and chloramine...), but they do cause algae blooms. If you like green water or hair/bubble algae all over your tank, be my guest and use tap water. We use RO water because it eliminates that source of metals from your tank.
and what do you mean by "aged tap water"? does this mean he just lets the tap water sit for a few days? if so, what's that supposed to do to the tap water? I hope he doesn't think that's removing any metals or minerals from the water, because it's not...
Not flaming or anything, just debating... i love to debate!
 

joshradio

Member
Originally Posted by Debbie
I phoned three of our LFS whom all have saltwater tanks, one which is a huge saltwater LFS and asked them about their water changes within the store. The one large store that is into saltwater big time thought I was nuts to do the RO water, he said that of all the tanks in the store he has never used RO water and in his tank at home which is 300 gal he does not use RO water just aged tap water.
His question to me was the exact same as I have stated above. "Does the oean contain RO water"?
Don't flame me, I am just curious as to why it is so important to use this type of water when mother nature sure does not.

Real quick... if he is a LFS really into sw... then his tanks are probably all connected in a long line of tubes sort of way... so doing small amounts of "aged" (or stale) tap water top offs doesn't matter as much.
My LFS has about 6,000 gal worth of water circulating through all the tanks and they use RO, because it cuts back on the chance of problems.... the ocean has TONS of filtering methods, your tank has one, maybe 2, that specialize in removing XXXX (whatever).... but if you do even a 10% water change in a 55 gal, you'll be dumping in a bunch of metals your system isn't able to filter out, causing the bloom of undesired growths... RO is just helping to simplify... but if you like the tap water method, by all means, use it... this whole hobby is about trial and error, and when most people give their opinion on a question, it's generally because they've probably had that error before!
 

nytrillium

Member
Yes we did get quite off topic
but i think the question had been reasonably answered.
I agree with what jdragunas was saying, The ocean is soooo massive compared to our tanks that its not a fair comparison. There are so many variables that go on in nature that we dont see, and that havent even been discovered yet. We cant possibly account for all of them in our home systems(even the larger ones 300, 1000 gal +). There are deep sea vents that spew toxic gass and minerals into the ocean that have colonies of feather dusters/tube worms that thrive there. We really dont understand the full extent of the ocean right now. We have only explored something like 5% of the entire oceal floor. So to say that we are attempting to mimic the natural environment is an accurate statement, but we are in no way able to recreate it in its entirety. We are in a hobby that has evolved from trial and error like stated above, and what has worked for some, hasnt for others, so give it a go and see what happens. In no way is this an exact science.
No flames here....
 

debbie

Active Member
I did not ask what he meant my aging. I have seen the holding tanks and they are just filtered water running. So I don't think he is trying to get rid of the metals etc. Next time I am in there I am going to get him to show me their full setup for curiosity......

This is an interesting topic though. I have been running my tank with boiled water for 2 years and have not problems at all. Very little algae but like we say what works for one does not work for another. I have learned my lesson far to many times, "If it isn't broke don't fix it".
As long as my fish, crabs, and mushrooms are all doing fine then best leave things as they are.
 

nytrillium

Member
Boiling the water won't cause problems. It just doesnt help you at all. Your just using regular tap water. The amout of water you evaporate wont concentrate the minerals/pollutants all that much depending on how long you boil it for. But you have to realize that you are doing nothing benificial for your tank buy boiling the water. I did say that it removes bacteria and such but if you think about it, freshwater bacteria will most likely die as soon as they come in contact with high concentrations of salt. I suppose if you had high levels of methane or co2 gas in your water boiling it would eliminate that immediately, but if your circulating your water for 24 hours that will come out anyway. So i guess what i'm saying is.... you can go ahead and stop boiling your water now
.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
i agree, boiled tap water is just the same as regular tap water. You should definately use a dechlorinator, though...
 

mystic7

Member
Originally Posted by NYTrillium
My view of "upstate" is a little different than yours. I guess where ilive could be considered the "way in the middle of nowhere" part of the state. But i love it here too. Have you ever visited?
The furthest north I ever visited was New Paltz. And one other time in 1969 I was within 10 miles of Bethel. Traffic jam prevented further movement (we were going to the Woodstock Festival). I've passed through uppermost NY state on the way to Montreal, however :)
 

nytrillium

Member
haha. You dont know what upstate is until you've been 50 miles from civilization in the middle of the adirondacks, camping in a tent.
You should visit sometime its beautiful.
 

diane4

Member
Before the DAWN of R/O machines, a friend of ours kept saltwater tanks and he used tap water that had aged and arated for at least 48 hours. He never had a problem.
I use R/O water for making up water changes. However, in a pinch if I am out of top off R/O water, I will use bottled spring water or distilled water. Haven't had a problem.
I will say to add support to the R/O fans (which I am too), my R/O machine sure gets pretty darn brown after a few uses. That is the junk it is cleaning out of the tap water and there is nothing that is going to remove the brown yuk like a R/O machine can.
It is a pain to make up the R/O water, but it is preferred and boiling the water doesn't do any good, I agree. It will kill off bacteria, but it won't remove the disolved solids which is harmfull to our animals.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
i still don't understand the point of letting tap water age... what is it supposed to do?
 

nytrillium

Member
well i think they are refering to pre-mixing your salt water to airate it and let the chlorine and other stuff dissipate. It lets the salt completely dissolve and gets the water homogeneous and allows the salinity to stabilize.
 
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