Brand Spanking New - 29g build

clink51

clink51

Member
Hi everyone.

Ive been keeping fish for a little over 3 years and have finally decided to commit the biggest sin in FW fish keeping...I'm going Salt!! I have a 29g at home that currently houses the last of my Lake Tanganyika shell dwellers which will be sold in the upcoming weeks. so now i must start planning for my new adventure. This tank will be ASTHETICALLY for my girlfriend, but characteristic wise for me. so i need pretty fish with awesome personalities. I would like corals in the future but will be keeping it FOWLR until the tank has been setup for at least 6-8 months and no major deaths have occured.


WHAT I HAVE:
- 29 gallon (standard dimensions)
- Maxijet 1200
- Marineland C-160 Canister Filter
- 30 pounds of Lace rock from my previous setup
- 150watt heater
- standard light

WHAT I WILL BE GETTING:
- 15 pounds of Live rock
- Live Sand
- Sea Salt
- 2 t-5 lights
- Test Kits
- HOB Protein Skimmer

LIVE STOCK I WOULD LIKE:
- 2 Clowns
- Goby ( Dont know what kind)
(Thats all i have so far LOL)

CUC:
(Took this from a pre made list that i found good)
3 bumble bee snails
3 nerite snails
4 peppermint shrimp
2 cleaner shrimp
2 red leg hermits
Maybe a starfish?

My questions:
Do i need a Sump?
What other fish can i put in?
is a PS needed?
are additives needed
can i get away without having to purchase an RO filter?
do i need more powerheads?
- which way do they need to point

Thanks in advance for all the help that will be posted and or suggested. Im good with criticism so please feel free to do so.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
watch out for starfish---- some eat fish.
I would add a refugium full of macros.
It is the marine equilivant to a planted FW setup.
And balances out and stabilizes operation to be forgiving of my type errors.
still just my .02
 
clink51

clink51

Member
refugium huh?
. I stayed away from planted FW tanks just because i have difficulty keeping cacti alive.... Can you point me to any posts about DIY refugiums? Thank god this tank is still in the planning fazes.
What about equipment, does that look good?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi, Welcome to the site!
A 29g is a very tiny SW tank. In saltwater the larger the tank, the easier it is to keep stable, little tanks have no wiggle room for error. If you could swing it, I would start with a 55g or 75g. The 6 shrimp is a little much, and hermits eat and kill snails. You only purchase critters for your CUC when you have something to "clean up" or they will starve.
A sump is not absolutely necessary, but it's the best choice, and the easiest to maintain. If you plan on corals, the in-sump skimmers are head and shoulders better then any HOB out there. Your own RO unit is best, but you can get RO water from any refill station at any large grocery store. Don't use tap water. Water is a huge pain to haul, and your own RO unit means nice drinking water for the whole family, not just the fish tank.
Note: RO/DI is NOT fit for humans to drink. So IMO if you get your own unit, go for the RO only. You also need test kits, lab type not the dip stick. Don't ask for any advice from any LFS on anything!...know what you want and need, before you walk into the store. This site and others like it, are golden for getting information on equipment brands, additives and any advice on fish.
Pick out your favorite fish or SW critter, and build your tank around that idea. Also getting a good book on starting a SW aquarium is a must, freshwater is a whole different world. Macroalgae is indeed a great help for getting the tank up and going, we can discuss more about that later...you have enough info to chew on for the moment.
 
fattytwobyfour

fattytwobyfour

Member
I have a 33 gallon, and also use a canister pump & HOB skimmer. I am probably going to go with a sump this Fall, but that's just a personal preference. You can always decide to upgrade your setup in the future. This hobby is expensive, and it's usually good to buy the best you can instead of skimping and saving a few dollars.
Have you ever used any copper based medication while using the tank as freshwater? That's for sure something to keep in mind as any traces of copper is deadly to invertebrates. But you've come to the right place to get converted to saltwater. There are a lot of people here who will try to help you and give you the knowledge from their experience!
 
clink51

clink51

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattytwobyfour http:///t/396255/brand-spanking-new#post_3530094
Have you ever used any copper based medication while using the tank as freshwater?
Thanks Fatty. I might upgrade in the futre, i just dont want to go, excuse the term, balls to the wall, and get my self into crazy debt trouble
. As for the Copper based meds, i have not. I had ghost shrimp in the tank for a while and nothing. will go buy some more just to bee 100% sure before i begin the cycle
 
clink51

clink51

Member
Just a random Tuesday Update.
Here is my tank before i sold the fish to my LFS (Barter, Trade and Support for/with the LFS is what this hobby is composed of). 17 neomultifasciatus from Lake Tanganyika, 40+ shells are gone. Cleaned up the Algae wall that I had left while the tank was active. Cleaned up and fixed a Toms Rapid Pro filter i had lying around that my LFS gave to me because he had upgraded. I'll post pictures tomorrow of what the tank looks like currently.

The Aquaclear 30 (150w) has done great, can i stay with the same heater or do i need to make it higher? At what angle and height should my powerheads be aimed? and Lastly, i have TONS of Lace Rock from my old tanks. if i want a total of 25lbs of rock in my tank, how much of Live Rock would i need to feed my Lace rock?
 
fattytwobyfour

fattytwobyfour

Member
Yeah, don't go into debt. But say you are looking at something like a skimmer. And you can go with Skimmer A, b/c it's $20 cheaper than Skimmer B. But in the end you might decided you should've went with Skimmer B and spending more. The bones of the saltwater tank, I'd get the best I could afford. Some stuff can wait for sure though. But just something to keep in mind as your buying equipment. I guess a good example would be when I purchased my Maxspect Razor Led's. There was one model for like $400, and the other for $500. I decided to save up the extra $100 in case one day I decided to keep something like SPS or a clam. It would be easier to pay a little more now, than to get down the road 6 months and be wishing I would've paid a little more so I could be getting a cool coral. LOL
 
clink51

clink51

Member
Small short little progress, best way to go i think.


Bare tank with the Tom Rapid Pro RP1 setup and running to test, Have the nozzle aimed up to break water tension.

Bare tank, just running all the equipment before i start preparing stuff.
Marineland Maxi-Jet (750 gph and up to 2,839 lph)

The Business end of the filtration. Floss, Bioballs, and Ceramic tubes. Protein Skimmer too. If this thing start making to much noise though, i might go back to my canister.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clink51 http:///t/396255/brand-spanking-new#post_3530086
refugium huh?
. I stayed away from planted FW tanks just because i have difficulty keeping cacti alive.... Can you point me to any posts about DIY refugiums? Thank god this tank is still in the planning fazes.

What about equipment, does that look good?
Just a suggestion, one thing I did on my old 55g was just cram in a 1/4" square plastic grid a few inches from the back glass. So the area between the back glass and grid formed an in tank refugium. That allowed chaetomorphia and pods to thrive in that protected area. I also added a couple of cheapie utility lights behind the tank pointing forward. Then put the display stuff in front of the grid. The grid is called egg crate and available in the dropped ceiling sections of building supply stores. 4'x8' section was about $10 or so.

I also did not use any live rock or live sand. Nitrates and phosphates dropped to zero in 3 weeks.

I would save even more money by not using the canister filter as well.

I also used untreated tap water and did no water changes.

to maintain calcium/alk/magnesium I used the dr holmes-farley diy 2 part method.


still just my .02
 
clink51

clink51

Member
Quote:
I also did not use any live rock or live sand. Nitrates and phosphates dropped to zero in 3 weeks.

I would save even more money by not using the canister filter as well.

I also used untreated tap water and did no water changes.

So basically you did everything ive been told not to do


I get that live sand is used mostly to accelerate the process. but what about live rock? isnt that needed?

I do like the in-tank-refuge idea though

Thanksfully i have the canister filter from my old tank so its no big worry
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:Originally Posted by Clink51 http:///t/396255/brand-spanking-new#post_3530393
 
 So basically you did everything ive been told not to do

 
I get that live sand is used mostly to accelerate the process. but what about live rock? isnt that needed?
 
I do like the in-tank-refuge idea though
 
Thanksfully i have the canister filter from my old tank so its no big worry

Well I'm kinda old school. My first marine tank was setup back in 1978 or so. Back then algae was a sign of a healthy tank.
The live sand and rock are used to help the cycle. Both provide pods and stuff that does add to the tank. IMHO it is the algae on the rocks consumes ammonia, nitrates and so on. the live sand also helps with calcium buffering and anaerobic bacteria helps with nitrate control.
And they do work.
But here is the dirty little secret from this old school type.
Ammonia (first if present) then nitrates plus phosphates and CO2 are consumed by algae like macros. So even if there is no aerobic bacteria present, the macros will prevent the ammonia spikes. You may instead get an initial nitrate spike which is much better then the ammonia->nitrIte->nitrates cycle. Then after a few weeks the nitrates will drop down to very low or unmeasureable levels.
Calcium can be buffered by very inexpensive things like curshed oyster shells and mrs wages pickling lime.
The diy 2 part uses calcium chloride (25 pound bag $8), baking soda, epsom salts, magnesium chloride (harder to find but still 50 pound bag $25.00). It maintains calcium, alk, and magnesium for reef type setups especially those with hard (sps) type corals.
I also got a few hundred pounds of limestone rock from a local quarry. Their price was $20 per ton (yep ton not pounds LOL). While it was a little dense it worked just fine.
For sand I used common play sand from the local building supply stores. You can even forgo the sand and just go "bare bottom". Which some like because it is much easier to clean up.
BTW fellow reefers may be tossing out chaetomorphia and other macros that are just full of the pods and critters the live sand and rock have.
I just replaced the water that evaporated with straight untreated tap water. So no water changes. In fact in the 9 years I ran the tank I used 3 50g bags of salt.
I would recommend you set it up with the macros right from the start.
Then wait a week for things to settle down.
Then use a single $2 male molly as the first fish.
And not add food for a week.
Then when that fish has lived a few weeks try the more expensive marine only fish.
The idea is you setup a system where the macros balance out and stabilize operations. Then do everything you can to avoid messing with it so it just maintains itself.
my .02
 
fattytwobyfour

fattytwobyfour

Member
I can see why some of those things work. And if it's not broke, don't fix it. My dad always done freshwater tanks while I was growing up. Back then he used tap water. But he's said that the quality of water has greatly decreased over the past few years in a lot of areas (they are adding more and more chemicals to it) and that you really shouldn't use tap water today. Some areas may not be bad, but looking at my local yearly water reports, I can see why. It's full of stuff like chloramine. I just live in rural Arkansas. It may be worse in other areas. I dunno. I just can see why using an RO unit is very important for today.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattytwobyfour http:///t/396255/brand-spanking-new#post_3530432
I can see why some of those things work. And if it's not broke, don't fix it. My dad always done freshwater tanks while I was growing up. Back then he used tap water. But he's said that the quality of water has greatly decreased over the past few years in a lot of areas (they are adding more and more chemicals to it) and that you really shouldn't use tap water today. Some areas may not be bad, but looking at my local yearly water reports, I can see why. It's full of stuff like chloramine. I just live in rural Arkansas. It may be worse in other areas. I dunno. I just can see why using an RO unit is very important for today.
The dirty little secret is that municiple water systems that switched to clorimine have to flush out their systems because of an increase in the aerobic bacteria in our tanks. they switched because chlorimine is a liquid and much safer than the gas chlorine.

It breaks down to chlorine gas and ammonia this is immediately consume by the macros.

So by just replaceing the evaporative water with straight untreated tap water the tank is fine.

BTW one of the cities I had tanks in was blytheville ar back in the late '80s.

FWIW RO also removes calcium, carbonate, magnesium and other very benificial stuff you have to dose anyway.


my .02
 
clink51

clink51

Member
So beaslbob, you're saying its okay to top off with Water from the tap but not do major water changes? sounds fair enough

So to my next question. I have my Tom RP output breaking water tension. where should i aim my powerhead and do i need another power head
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
I am a big fan of algae scrubbing as a water quality control measure, but I would not rely on in-tank algae growth. For most situations this amounts to too much algae and to undesirable species like hair algae for most hobbyists. If you decide to go the algae route rather than the nitrosomonas/nitrobacter bacterial nitrogen control path, look into algae turf scrubbers or macroalgae in a sump to export nitrogenous wastes. I do have to disagree with beaslbob about water changes and top-off using tap water. Just as algae consume nitrogen waste and phosphate from the water, they are also consuming other important ions during their growth. This will eventually lead to depletion of necessary ions. Regular water changes serve to recharge the micronutirent composition of the water. When I look at the chemical composition of my tap water I see a variety of non-volatile chemicals that will accumulate if evaporation of water is replaced with additional tap water also containing more trace amounts of those chemicals. Thus, the recommendation to use RODI instead of tap water to replace evaporative losses.

My saltwater fishkeeping pre-dates beaslbob by a few years, and I too remember when a lush algae growth was viewed as a sign of a thriving tank. I also remember how much better survival and growth became after a I read Stephen Spotte's book explaining the nitrogen cycle and how to provide substrate for bacterial degredation of nitrogenous wastes. In short, you can skip the live rock thing, do no water changes and top off with tap water if you wish, but I am then applying to be your sole supplier of fish - I'll make a fortune until you become frustrated by your livestock losses, and quit the hobby.
 
clink51

clink51

Member
Quote:
In short, you can skip the live rock thing, do no water changes and top off with tap water if you wish, but I am then applying to be your sole supplier of fish - I'll make a fortune until you become frustrated by your livestock losses, and quit the hobby.


I enjoy getting all of the different views because not only am i learning from past events but also with whats current and "state of the art". With that said, I plan to go with 10-15 lbs of Lace rock from my old tank and 10-15 lbs of Cured Live Rock from my LFS. Water changes will be done with a dechlorinator, as i did with my FW tanks, and prepared 24 hours in advanced. i will keep a sealed 5g bucket with mixed saltwater for every night top off. In case of an emergency or plain lazyness, i might use Tap water until i get Corals in the future (NYC water is actually pretty good)

Also UPDATE - i just ordered stuff...
Salt (Reef Crystals Reef Salt - 160 Gallon Bucket)
Hydrometer
Sand (Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Samoa Pink Reef Sand - 10 and 20lb bags)
Test Kit (API Saltwater Master Test Kit)
T5 Light (Aqualight Saltwater T5 Dual Fluorescent Light - 30 in.) FOR ONLY 40 BUCKS!!!

Live Rock will be purchased when Salt water has been mixed and put into tank.... i'm really excited for this
 
fattytwobyfour

fattytwobyfour

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/396255/brand-spanking-new#post_3530442
The dirty little secret is that municiple water systems that switched to clorimine have to flush out thier systems because of an increase in the aerobic bacteria in our tanks. they switched because chlorimine is a liquid and much safer than the gas chlorine.

It breaks down to chlorine gas and ammonia this is immediately consume by the macros.

So by just replaceing the evaporative water with straight untreated tap water the tank is fine.

BTW one of the cities I had tanks in was blytheville ar back in the late '80s.

FWIW RO also removes calcium, carbonate, magnesium and other very benificial stuff you have to dose anyway.


my .02
I don't think I'd bathe in the water from Blytheville lol. Thanks for the information though. That's neat. I'm using coral salt, and that seems to keep my levels where they need to be. I'm guessing it just adds that stuff back to the water. I only keep LPS and softies though. I'm sure the story would be different if I was trying to grow SPS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top