Breaking the rules?

[lopeyc]

I bought a 37g tank from a great guy with a lot of fish experience who moved it in for me, has been really helpful answering questions, has sent me to good fish stores, etc., etc. So great experience.
What is funny, though, is as I've gotten more educated from books and websites is how conservative the literature is compared to this guy's practices and the thriving tank I got from him.
For example, when I bought the tank, there were 12 fishes in it -- most of them 1" to 2" but a wrasse and a tank that are both about 3.5". Yet the book I got estimates I shouldn't have more than 3 or 4 little guys!
In the transition, he kept 3 cheap chromiis I didn't want, leaving nine. My question is, should I replace them with other fish (I want to!) or should I let the population shrink by attrition?
Also, do people generally leave their protein skimmers on all the time? Or just periodically?

 

[dburr]

It sounds like this guy had an overstocked tank.
3 or 4 little guys sound right.
Most people leave the skimmer on 24/7.
Stick around and ask questions, you will learn alot in a little time.
Enjoy, Dan

 

[wamp]

A tank that size should not have that many fish in it. Nine is actually too many. The long term health is what I wonder about. I'm sure they will live but long term is the question. If you want a monthly tank, than that many fish is fine, but if you truly strive to have a healthy tank, you should take out some fish.
I for one don't want to kill fish. They cost too much and more importantly, they are living creatures..

 

[lopeyc]

Well, what do you mean by longterm? They've been living in there for a year, apparently. And the water condition is good. They're not fighting. What will hurt them?

 

[j-cal]

honestly, I've seen similar before. A really good customer at my shop has been buying fish for their 90 reef since november. I'd wager that there are 40-50 fish in the tank. They do a h20 change every 3 weeks, feed heavily and water specs test out perfect or near perfect. Ironically, they have had a goniapora living for about 3-4 months with no sign of die off. Their secret? heck if i know. I just know i've never been more impressed with a tank in my life. I'm not one to recommend stocking the tank with that many fish, but I certainly wont lift my nose to it or say its impossible. If your tank stays stable and your fish grow and dont look stressed I'd say keep that many.

 

[uwscotch]

Depends on your intentions. If you want to keep just fish, I would think you're fine. My fish tank is 30 gal and has 7 fish. All of them are very peaceful but some reefers may say it is cramped. However I have clowns that breed regularly and if room was an issue, i'm sure she would be the one to complain. I've had my fish for several years, i'm not sure if you can ask for much better survival since you don't alsways know where the fish came from and how they were caught. If you want to fill it out with corals, etc. You may want to reconsider. Best of luck

 

[oo bubbagump oo]

I have a small Powder Blue Tang in my 20g Long. He eats, alot, and swims around and around. My tank is small for the PBT, which is why I wouldn't ever even think of adding another fish. The PBT is the king of my tank. No competition for food or swimming space and this alone is the reason why he is so happy here. Nine fish is a grip.
If I were you, I'd pick a "king" and base the rest of the livestock around HIM. That way, no competition and/or bullying.
Please, no flames. Justin

 

[lopeyc]

...for all the feedback!
I do have a "king" -- a yellow tang, who is healthy and "plump."
The other fish:
cotton-tail damsel
bi-color blennie
canary wrasse
maroon clown
clarkii clown
yellowtail blue damsel
magenta dottyback
flame angel
+ a clam, various soft and hard corals, two anemones, hermits, bristle worm, feather dusters and 40 lb of live rock. I have a sump, with more live rock.
I was hoping to add a fairy wrasse and a cardinal, but I'm reconsidering now...

 

[jlem]

Originally posted by oO BubbaGump Oo
I have a small Powder Blue Tang in my 20g Long. He eats, alot, and swims around and around. My tank is small for the PBT, which is why I wouldn't ever even think of adding another fish.
So you put a PB Tang into a tank way to small knowing it was to small. I am curious when you set up your tank? In June you lost a clown to Brooklynella. How long have you had your PB Tang for. Keeping a fish alive for a month or two is hardly a success. I had a beutifull gold rim tang for a couple weeks a few years back that ate fine and looked like it was in paradise that just died one day. The truth is that it was a really bad move on your part to knowingly put a fish in the wrong conditions and now you say how happy your fish is in an attemp to justify such a bad move. Hopefuuly when your fish dies eventually you will let people know about your mistake and advise people not to put a tang into a 20 gallon.

 

[clownfish_and_bettas]

J-Cal: It sounds like begginers luck to me..... I knew a guy who had a 10 gal micro reef. Never changed water, fed three times a day w/ 5 1" fish in it! As far as I know the tank is and has been thriving since day one! IMO that if you don't know enough about reefing to keep you worried all the time you might do better than alot of people who do.
lopeyc: If the fish are doing fine, why change anything? I'm not so sure about getting more though.
Nadia

 

[wamp]

lopeyc
Did you see the tank a year ago when it was setup? Did you see the livestock was added all at one time? Do you know the last time he bought a fish at the Pet Store?
I ask not trying or even going to flame your answers. But, there is a reason for asking.
I have been around this board for a while. I see alot of overstocking going on. Most people consider 3-5 months a sucess when in fact, it is not. Even a year for most all species of fish is young. So, No, I would not consider a year long term, it is still short term in my eyes...
Now having said that, back to the reasons I asked the questions. I see alot of people come and go. Most people as soon as a fish dies, they want to replace it. So, unless you really know the person who sold you the tank and knew exaclty when he got everything, it's tough to judge sucess.
As far as another post about the 90 gallon with 40+/- fish in it. Thats crazy! Even a fresh water tank should have far less than that. I would also say the same paragraph above should apply to that guy. You said you worked at the store, but have you seen his tank? I am not doubting your statement, just wondering how his ammonia stays down. By rule of chemistry, it could not unless the fish were only about 1/2" and ate very little... UNLESS, he has a 900 gallon filter added somewhere we don't know about
Like I said, I am not trying to be rude, or flame anyone, just trying to help out by giving you some of my experience with tanks.
Good luck with the tank lopeyc, I think you'll enjoy it!

 

[infalable]

Hey Lopey, welcome to the board. Keep in mind that sometimes practices that go against the norm sometimes work out ok. However, to be successful in the long run, the fundementals always win out. Being experiened, the other guy was probably able to compensate for any problems, you may not be so lucky. Also, keep in mind the best interest of the occupants in the tank. A busy tank may look good, but you may end up with unhappy fish. A lot of the folks who responded really know their stuff. They are only interested in the well being of the tank. The best of luck to you.

 

[lopeyc]

To answer some of the questions:
-- I did not see this tank before three weeks ago, when I first looked at it, and I have not asked when each fish was added (although I can -- everything I have asked he has promptly responded). However, the entire tank was only set up a year ago, so they are not that old -- and most of the fish are juveniles.
-- The reason I had been considering more was to replace the three little chromis we removed upon the transfer of the tank, at his suggestion.
-- The seller's explanation of the stability and water quality of his tank amount to this: Because of the high ratio of live rock and corralline algae to gallons of water, nothing more than regular protein skimming had been needed. He also limited the input: Using only kalkwasser and food pellets and the rare brine shrimp treat, he shied away from conditioners, additives, frozen or fresh food, etc.
-- His explanation of the fact that their is little sign of aggressive behavior was that by overstocking the tank, he had kept down the fish's natural territorial instincts. Feeding time is pretty mellow, with only the banded shrimp and arrow crab getting fiesty -- which is hilarious to watch and which seems to bother the fish not at all!
-- In looking up the fish in my marine fish encyclopedia, I notice that all of his selections are of hardy and generally compatible fish. Plus, there are no pairs, few conspecifics, etc. In other words, it is a practical assemblege, not a risk-filled one.
Thanks for the warm welcome. I am already completely addicted to this hobby (oof, hate that word), love my little tank community and am already trying to convince myself I can afford a 90g setup to move the bigger fish into. Am also excited by the BEAUTIFUL marine fish stores in my metro area -- better than the average city aquarium!
However, you have all reminded me that I have been handed a stable system without all the hard work that went into creating it -- hope I don't screw it up...

 

[oo bubbagump oo]

jlem: I politely asked that flames be rhetorical. Please have respect for LOPEYC and provide him with some useful information about his situation. I think this would benefit all of us, thanks.
Justin

 

[jlem]

Originally posted by oO BubbaGump Oo
jlem: I politely asked that flames be rhetorical. Please have respect for LOPEYC and provide him with some useful information about his situation. I think this would benefit all of us, thanks.
Justin

I have a 30 gallon tank with a yellow tang and a purple tang that love eachother. I would like to just say that people who say that my setup is unhealthy please refrain from flaming me and let me post anything I want regardless if it causes somebody to kill some fish by using my tank as an example.
^^^^^^ JOKENG OF COURSE^^^^^^^
If you choose to post then you choose to accept the replies. Plenty of people replied to Lopeyc sitution as well as I could have. Your reply gave no info to Lopeyc's accept that a tang in a 20 gallon tang will thrive and be happy which is just wrong considering that your fish is pretty new and has hardly thrived for any decent amount of time.

 

[terminus est]

Swimming around and around is a major sign of stress!!! Use some common sense. I am with Jlem, if you are going to post about a ridiculous and cruel tank setting then you are asking to be flamed. Loopey is new and he got the tank already set up from someone else. Obviously he is trying to rectify the situation by asking things here. You on the other hand I have seen before and dont get the new guy buffer excuse. Now be a moral and ethical human being and either get the 125+ gallon tank a powder blue requires or bring the fish back immediatly. he may be 2 inch now but they grow fast and need tank space that far outweighs their size. Keeping the fish as is puts you in the same catagory as kids who put blow up frogs with firecrackers and douse dogs with gas and set them on fire. Subhuman in my opinion. So dont ask politely not to get flamed or flame others in the same thread as you post something stupid like that.
If you were joking and I missed it, you picked a really sore topic to joke about.

 

[wamp]

lopeyc
You have no Idea how happy I am to see that you have taken the time to look up the fish you have and thier needs!!! Seriously!!
As I have stated before in other posts, I think a healthy tank is one in which it is cared for, properly maintaned and stocked within reason. It sounds to me like you are very eager to learn and open to input. I really respect that. Have fun with the tank and yes, it is an extreme addiction... Even costs more than drugs!
Enjoy

 

[uwscotch]

Looking at the fish you have in the tank right now, I would recommend no more fish and maybe lose a couple. As I mentioned earlier, my fish is stocked a little heavy but are small and some schooling fish that occupy different levels of the tank. I have always followed the inches of fish per gallon rule and not necessarily the number of fish per gallon rule. I also consider not only the length but width and height of the fish. A tang for example i feel that if it is 3 inches in length, it is comparable to about 6 fish inches in length of chromis or goby, etc. that has a reduced metabolism and actual body mass. again, best of luck and i hope this works for you. Talk to your LFS and you may be able to get store credit to return a fish and buy equipment, etc. or maybe, just maybe A REAL BIG TANK My earlier reply has changes since I have now seen the list of fish in the tank. Happy reefing.

 

[oo bubbagump oo]

Well, I guess you guys are the experts! Maybe I should listen to you.
Say, how much do you experts get paid nowadays?
Justin

 

[terminus est]

A dollar a gallon per month