BUFFER Does Not Raise PH!!!!

bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
The term "Buffer" is a marketing term. It's misleading and companies telling you to use it to raise PH are being dishonest. A Buffer will not permanently raise your PH unless you overdose. Do not use it to raise your PH or you could cause problems.
There is a relationship between PH, Calcium, and Alkalinity so raising Alkalinity a LOT will actually raise PH, it's just bad practice and raising ALK too much could cause precipitation which will actually result in a lowered PH.
Use it to raise Alkalinity but only if your ALK is low. This means you need to test before dosing.
Bang <--- off the soapbox for now
 
molamola

molamola

Member
Had I known that buffer was for fishtanks, I wouldn't have been using it on my car. So, what you're saying is that products like Turtlewax and Armorall would help boost my alkalinity? It's amazing!
 
golfish

golfish

Active Member
you ever notice how the pH seems to fall even lower after using buffer? Sure, it raises it big time in the first few moments then falls like a rock.
 
T

thomas712

Guest
This is one of those painful subjects that can give you headaches for days. I like how Anthony Calfo puts it.
"Alkalinity and pH are distinctly different from each other, although their definitions and functions can be easily confused. For those of you as uninformed about water chemistry as I was when I first began, alkalinity is essentially a measurement of water's ability to neutralize acids. It is a measure of the buffering capacity of a system while pH is basically the measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions in water, in terms of acidity or alkalinity. The alkalinity of water regarding pH issues merely refers to the basic end of a pH scale (alkaline) in contrast to the acidic end of the scale and does not reflect the buffering capacity of a system. It is easy to believe that water with alkaline pH is likely to be high in alkalinity (buffering capacity). However, this is not necessarily true. Water with a high pH, but a low alkalinity is regarded as unstable. Such water will quickly decline in pH with the natural accumulation of organic acids in aquarium systems.
The oldest and most common method of increasing the buffering capacity of salt water is the addition of sea buffer. Sea buffer is basically (no pun intended) a powdered mix of bicarbonates, carbonates, and borates. Such mixes are designed to increase the alkalinity (buffering capacity) of seawater without raising the pH beyond a set point. Some buffering products do raise the pH of seawater and should only be used with caution. Baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, is a significant portion of most dry mixes of sea buffer.
Anthony Calfo
If thats not enough to understand you then try to figure out just what your buffering with, and you have to tear apart your buffer to find out what percentage of bicarbonates, carbonates and borates it has. For instance in the case of using seachem as a buffer but you can't figure out why your corals are not growning, but you have perfect buffer, great dKH values going, only to find out that you have more borate than carbonates and the corals can't grow without the carbonates.
I'm going to stop now cause I feel like a nerve is pulsing in my head.
Thomas
 
nm reef

nm reef

Active Member
Now that was a headaches maker!!!! Way too much info for me....:rolleyes:
I agree with the technical info and with bangs words.....but I don't actually understand the issue in specific terms. I do know that by supplimenting a calcium product and a related PH buffer or alkalinity suppliment its allowed me to establish and maintain a somewhat stable calcium/PH/alkalinity range for about 3 years now. It takes time to establish the amounts to add and there can be problems if things get out of whack...but for me its worked fairly well.A regular suppliment schedule/program and careful testing of levels works for me is all I know for certain.
The high tech reasons for "how" it all works just hurts my friggin' head.....:D
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator

Originally posted by ophiura
Something get you onto this today or just a random thought or??? :D
In the past week I've seen over a dozen similar complaints - "My PH is low and I keep adding buffer but it won't stay up" followed by "My Calcium is now below 300 and my Alkalinity is off the chart".
This is a pure symptom of product marketing misleading consumers. The situation outlined above is a dangerous condition. It just makes me sick to see someone lose their tank because of a simple misconception.
 
promisetbg

promisetbg

Active Member

Originally posted by Bang Guy
In the past week I've seen over a dozen similar complaints - "My PH is low and I keep adding buffer but it won't stay up"

This is most often seen at this time of the year,and in summer..when we tend to close up our homes.{for obvious reasons]
The indoor carbon dioxide{ CO2 }can increase to three times that of outside air from pet and human respiration,gas appliances,kerosene heaters,and wood burning stoves.Simply opening a window,or airing out your home,can increase and stabilize PH in a matter of hours.You can also run the venturi of your skimmer to a controlled outdoor location,so that your tank essentially "breathes fresh air".
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
If (as stated) "Buffer's are not the way to raise pH...
Could you list the "Safe and Healthy" ways to raise cronic low pH, and reccomendations for "maintaining " a proper pH level...???
 
rseaves

rseaves

New Member
My PH stays around 8.0 My KH is around 11.
What product do you recommend to raise pH.
I currently use super buffer by Kent to maintain my buffering capacity.
 
solonfairy

solonfairy

Member
aerating the water will go a long ways... keeping the surface of the water rippled or having a sump that agitates the water is a good place to start
also... watch your organics. a good deal of people i talk to have low pH and heavy feeding. decaying food and waste will lower pH
if your pH is falling at nite and you dont have a RDP lit fuge... highly consider it
after all of that, I control my pH by the way i dose my tank for Ca and dkh. dripping kalk 24/7 has to be one of the most rock-solid stable ways to keep pH (as well as Ca and dkh) in line. and for those with calcium reactors and low pH... dripping kalk does wonders there too.
outside of reactors and kalkwasser on smaller systems, etc.... i control pH via the method i dose to keep dkh up. (this is what calfo was talking about). if you need to raise dkh and your pH is 8.2 or less, then use carbonate as it will raise dkh and pH (momentarily big pH jumps (*see below), overtime it takes a while). if your pH is 8.2 or more and you need to raise dkh, use bicarbonate. it will keep pH stable (slightly lower it for a few minutes) while raising dkh. The whole time you are doing this keep an eye out on calcium as its levels are decrease with a sole addition of a dkh source.
also when dosing for dkh i recommend only raising by 1dkh per 24hrs. if you are really in-tune with chemistry you can raise by 2dkh per 24hrs (but if you were so in-tuned, you probably wouldnt be reading this to learn how to adjust dkh)
*big pH jumps while raising dkh with a normal Ca and Mag load can cause precipitation, hence the ^1dkh/24hr suggestion.
good luck
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator

Originally posted by RSEAVES
My PH stays around 8.0 My KH is around 11.
What product do you recommend to raise pH.
8.0 is just fine!
Low PH is almost always Carbonic Acid (Dissolved CO2 and Hydrogen).
The only product I know of that removes CO2 is limewater.
Grab a gallon of your tank water and take it outside. Test the PH after 15 minutes and if it's a lot higher then the problem is your indoor concentration of CO2.
 
rseaves

rseaves

New Member

Originally posted by Bang Guy
8.0 is just fine!
Low PH is almost always Carbonic Acid (Dissolved CO2 and Hydrogen).
The only product I know of that removes CO2 is limewater.
Grab a gallon of your tank water and take it outside. Test the PH after 15 minutes and if it's a lot higher then the problem is your indoor concentration of CO2.

Thanks I will try that
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator

Originally posted by SolonFairy
*big pH jumps while raising dkh with a normal Ca and Mag load can cause precipitation, hence the ^1dkh/24hr suggestion.

Everyone should heed this warning as well. Just a momentary rise of PH to over 8.5 while raising Alkalinity can cause a precipitation event.
 
X

xnikki118x

Guest
Just wanted to thank everybody for clearing this up, and much thanks to Bang for starting such an informational thread.
 
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