Building a Stand

[yannifish]

I would like to make my own stand for either a 55 or 75 gallon tank (I currently have a 55 gallon, might get a 75). I know I want to be able to fit a 20 gallon long in the stand for a sump (my current 10 gallon sump is just too small), so I'm not sure how I'd do this since a 20 gallon long has the same width as the 55.
So, I would like all the suggestions I can get on how to build this thing.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Go to this link https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388776/snakes-methods and then scroll down and click on snakes custom 20g stand build. You'll get some good ideas.

 

[acrylic51]

Build the stand with side access or better yet you could build the stand using a torsion panel method.

 

[yannifish]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/390618/building-a-stand#post_3460251
Build the stand with side access or better yet you could build the stand using a torsion panel method.
Which is? The side access sounds like a great idea. That way I can take the sump out if I need to.
Thanks SnakeBlitz, I'll take a look at that.
What do I use for the main frame, 2x4s? I guess my issue is if the tank sits right over the fram, the legs would prevent me from being able to fit a 20 gallong long.

 

[acrylic51]

The stand could be built several ways......A lot is dependent on how you position and install the legs on the stand.....If your wanting to use dimensional lumber I would suggest using 2x4's for your legs and employ "cripple studs" in the leg area instead of solely relying on mechanical fastners to hold things together.....I would also suggest if you don't want a center support in the middle of your stand to use 2x6's for your top support......On a 55 or 75 they would be plenty to carry the load over a 4' length.....Even if you felt uncomfortable you could double up the 2x6's laminating them for additional strength, but think it's really not needed.....
With eliminating the center brace in the stand design you can definitely get a bigger sump underneath the stand easily.......
Using the "torsion panel" method involves more material, but yields an equally strong panel.....It also cuts down on wasted space inside the stand.....A "torsion panel" is a piece of plywood with 1x stock between 2 skins (sheets) of plywood.....Using this method you would have perfectly square usable corners inside the stand, unlike the above method, but either will work......
Not sure what you really mean about the tank sitting over the frame.......

I will take some pics of my stand I'm building for my quarantine/frag rack to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.......

You can kind of get an idea what I mean about positioning your legs......I also used "cripple studs" to carry the load.........

Again gives you a good idea of what you can do with upsizing your beams to carry the load opening the stand up.......I used 2x12's for my cross beams and 2x6's for my legs.....My HomeDepot had a good deal on the 2x12's. They were $5.00 for 8' pieces......

Just another view......

 

[yannifish]

I see what you mean about the cripple studs. I was wondering how I was going to do that. Are the cripple studs going right to the floor or resting on a base plate? It's hard to tell in that picture.
So 2x6s (maybe 2x8s) for the top support. What kind of cross bracing would I need? And would I use joist hangers to put in the cross braces or just nail them in place?
Also, what goes between the stand and the tank, a sheet of 3/4 inch plywood?
What kind of water proofing will a wood stand need?
As you can see I need all the information I can get.

 

[acrylic51]

My main legs go to the floor.....My "cripple studs" are wedged and screwed into place between the bottom of the top frame work and the bottom frame work......Meaning the top frame work of the stand rests on top of the "cripple studs", and the cripple studs sit on top of the bottom frame work. I screw or lag the "cripple studs to the main legs of the stand........
I always use 3/4" plywood on top of my 2x framing......I guess you could use a thinner panel, but I feel comfortable with 3/4" and most do as well. Styrofoam is dependent on type of tank installed.....Best to check manufacturer recommendations....Some say it will void the warranty, but don't think warranty is an issue in your case.....
As far as sealing the wood......I basically paint the stand with an exterior gloss paint......I then lined the bottom of the stand with FRP board, and caulked the edges......
As far as your cross bracing on the stand.....I never have used mechanical fasteners such as joist hangers.....Just don't see the need for the added expense. I measure everything out as I would if I was building a load bearing floor more or less ( kinda like building a deck mounting your joists). Depending how I feel I sometimes take my Bostich Framing nailer and take the cross bracing in place quick and then I put 3" screws through the cross bracing tying everything tight.....Nails over time have a tendency to want to back out, so that is why I prefer to use screws......I also use wood glue anytime I build....Is it needed.....Probably not, but makes me feel better.....I prefer TiteBond glue over any other.....I can't remember which 1 exactly it is, but there are several types, but the 1 I use has the green label......If your doing a lot of finish work they make a super nice "high hide glue". Works excellent.....

Hopefully in this pic you can see what I mean about installing the cross bracing.....If you look close enough you can see I don't skimp on screws as well......

 

[yannifish]

What should the spacing be on the cross bracing?
Should the stand be designed so the edge of the tank is directly over the 2x6 top frame?
As for finishing I'd like to use oak and stain it, instead of paint. More attractive IMO and that way it will match the other woodwork in my house. Is there a minimum thickness of the plywood I want to use on the outside of the stand in order to add rigidity?

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by yannifish http:///t/390618/building-a-stand#post_3460411
What should the spacing be on the cross bracing?
Should the stand be designed so the edge of the tank is directly over the 2x6 top frame?
As for finishing I'd like to use oak and stain it, instead of paint. More attractive IMO and that way it will match the other woodwork in my house. Is there a minimum thickness of the plywood I want to use on the outside of the stand in order to add rigidity?
I build a lot by eye......Sorry I know that isn't technical or easy to explain....But when I start building I take my outside measurements......Say 48"....then I know if my outside dimensions are 48 1/2" cause the 55 and 75 are 48".....I never build exact. Always leave yourself a little wiggle room.....So knowing my stand outside edge to outside edge is 48 1/2" I divide that by 2 which would give me my exact center of 24 1/4". This is the exact center of your stand....So knowing that my first cross brace would be centered on that 24 1/4" mark.....I then take the measurement between my center cross brace (joist) and divide that again in 1/2. That is where I place my next cross brace. I repeat this step for the opposite side.....Again not an exact science on my part, but I visually eye what I feel is adequate at times......
As far as the tank edges.....I try to rest the tank fully on the 2x material I'm using.....Never inside....I try to put it on/over the 2x directly.....Not hanging off either....Again you are going to leave yourself a little wiggle room for error, but the tank should rest firmly over the top framing area.....
Oak......I've gotten away from Oak for a lot of reasons, but it all comes down to personal preference......Oak is a very open pore wood.....IMHO to get an ultra smooth finish you need to fill those pores.....Again that is my personal taste, and some do like the open pores of Oak, I just find it hard to get a quality; ultra shiny finish I'm always after......I never paint wood.....Well..........plywood yes, but stuff like Oak, Mahogany, and such why hide the beauty of the wood.....
As far as plywood for the outside of the stand.....Technically you could use 1/4" plywood to wrap the stand with.....I don't suggest or like using plywood for a finish for a stand.....I prefer to used solid lumber. Plywood has a tendency to yield "blotchy" finishes or uneven IMHO......Solid lumber IMHO gives a better result and finish, and can handle a bit more sanding than plywood.....Again depends how particular you are about your finish work, but prep work is key.....Corey will tell or advise the same. The finish result is in the prep work. If I could dig up picks of my old 240 stand, and some have seen the pics.....It was smooth and glossy enough that you could shave looking into it, so I do spend a fair amount of time hand rubbing the finish.....Am I perfect heck no and if I wasn't to lazy and cheap with my time, I'd be at WoodCraft every weekend taking courses to get better......
HTH!!!!!!!

 

[yannifish]

It'll be oak to match everything else.
Completely agree about painting. This summer I watched a neighbor build a cedar strip boat just to paint it gray. Made me cringe.
Well the exterior will be all oak, I just wasn't sure if I want to use some plywood and then put an oak skin over the plywood. Or just use solid oak (whats cheaper?).
So what would I do if the stand needed to be a little wider than the tank to accommodate a sump the same width as the tank (if I stick with the 55)? Double up the 2x on the outside top so the tank is still over the 2x?

 

[acrylic51]

Your idea on doubling up would be fine, but don't think it would really be necessary, but how over sized are you planning.....

 

[2quills]

All I did in order to incorporate my sump which is the same width as the display is simply not use any verticle supports in the center of the stand. Just make sure you beef up the corners and use sufficient cross bracing across the top of the stand. And leave the center vertical piece of your skin on the front of the stand so that its removable.

 

[yannifish]

Okay. Like I said, I hope to go with a 75 which would solve the issue (I'd be able to slide the sump in from the end), but we'll see.
I'm assuming it would be okay if one part of the leg (not the "cripple" stud) was 2x2 instead of 2x4? I just did a google sketchup plan and with two 2x4s the gap still wouldn't be narrow enough to slide in the sump. With 2x2s it would be.

 

[acrylic51]

The room under a 75 4' I could stuff a 40 breeder I think under there.....Worse case scenario move the legs from the front of the stand to the sides of the stands......

 

[yannifish]

What are the dimensions on a 40 gallon breeder?
I was thinking 20 gallon long. Enough room for everything and a fuge.

 

[acrylic51]

36 3/16"L x 18 1/4"W x 16 15/16"H......

 

[yannifish]

I'd have to eliminate the middle legs to fit that.
Here is a quick SketchUp drawing:

 

[acrylic51]

Sketchup looks good.....And yes eliminating the middle brace would allow you to fit the 40 breeder inside the stand......The only thing I might add to the sketch would be a cross brace on each end locking the legs tight......Just my thoughts.....

 

[yannifish]

Where would you put the braces? Between the inside legs at either end?
If I got rid of the middle legs I could almost get my 55 under there. But that would be way overkill. I think the 20 would facilitate my needs fine.

 

[2quills]

To be quite frank with you, yanni...I don't see why you'd possibly need that much vertical bracing for a 75g tank. If I had the option I'd drop the legs in the center of the stand and add some more horizontal braces across the top. Then stuff a 40 breeder under there. You really limit yourself going with a single 20g sump. I've seen a couple builds just on this site alone with that same combo and micro bubbles is an every present issue. You have to end up cutting your flow way down and restrict yourself on options for different sizes or variations of possible future equipment.
With your current design you will need to expand the width of the stand by at least a couple of inches even to be able to fit a 20g under there through the end like you mentioned. You'd want at least 13" space in order for the tank to fit in. Add the dimensions of your two 2x4's on the corners which are 3.5" a piece which gives you 7". So take 7" and add 13" on top of that and you'll need to build a stand which is approximately 21" wide. Otherwise I don't see if fitting through the door openings. You'd have to make the stand pretty tall in order to do that.
You can get just as much water volume using a 40 breeder for a sump as you can a 55g because of the extra width a breeder tank will give you over a 55g.
Just my .02