Building sump/refugium out of two 10 Gallon Tanks

richamc01

richamc01

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks#post_3471272
Hello,
Welcome to the site...LOL..you have a black version of my stand. I have a 90g but like the 55g and 75g...I have a 4 foot long stand. That center brace is nothing but looks and I didn't want mine removed either. They designed my sump in two parts so I wouldn't have to.
Listen to Acrylic, he, along with Al&Burke and 2Quills designed my sump and the pictures he showed you is of that build. Search Flowers sump/fuge build and read it, I'm telling you Acrylic knows what he is talking about and will help you with the design you need...even using the two 10g tanks. On that thread the beginning is what you need to read thru...it has lots of pages but that's because some events took place turning it into a book...but if you read thru the beginning you will see the design and how to tweak yours.
Move the return to the edge of the first tank, and put the overflow hose in the center of the first tank, and the skimmer to the far left...leave the DSB fuge as it is, and lifted up.... and you have my system. The skimmer needs to be away from the fuge so it doesn't kill all the good refugium critters that overflow to the return to be sent on the wild ride up the return to your fish above for a tasty meal. The water from the DSB needs to go right up and the water from the tank needs to go thru the skimmer...
Also I have valves on all my hoses to regulate water flow. It also give me the option of shutting down the fuge and taking it offline. I have holes at the top of my return so the system shuts down almost instantly with very little back siphon before it stops...if the power goes out it is no problem at all...it has never flooded and starts right up when the power is restored. All return pumps, power heads and overflows are plugged into a single surge protector power strip, creating an emergency shut of button to stop the entire system in the event of an emergency. The guys thought of everything.
Thank you for the help...ive been skimming through the build that they did for you. looks like they did an awesome job. i dont know that i have enough time to read through all 95 pages though lol. but ill definitely keep going through it. Ill draw up what you suggested and see what kind of comments i can get.
thank you again.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Al's the mastermind with the drawings.......Flower could probably point you to the pages that have the nitty gritty work on........
 
richamc01

richamc01

Member
alright so ive came up with these two different designs....getting closer I hope? I'm really hooked on the bubble defuser and filter sock setup that Aqueon uses on there Pro Flex sump models...thats why you continue to see it. If it is unnecessary and not worth the time ill scrap it but I thought that it was an excellent design..
let me know what you think





Sorry there are two different plans here. pretty close to the same.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I'm still a bit confused;baffled by some of the details in the drawings......

I'm assuming your laying both designs out on top of each other.....or are you going to stack tanks on top of each other......My only critique on both designs show in this pic is still wasted space.....Wasted space meaning the down pip and then up flowing into the filter sock.......Wasted space....The design on top with the down tube from the tank and then the up flow chamber and then through the baffles.....Wasted IMHO.......You could easily incorporate a small; simple bubble tower that would incorporate the filter sock as well.....KEY....Maximize space.....The key with eliminating or minimizing bubbles at this point is with a bubble tower.....A simple bubble tower with teeth in the bottom of the tower would allow the bubbles to rise and pop as they are suppose to and the other water to escape from the bottom....Also with the filter sock on top in this area you incorporate both items in the same space.....
If you go to Flowers build I did something sort of close to what I'm talking about with the bubble tower and teeth on the bottom, but she doesn't have the filter sock holder....She has the ability to use rubble rock to break up the bubbles from the tank......
Another area of concern and not needed is the ball valve on that line.......There is NO NEED at all for that valve there......

Again I don't know how much thought or research you've put in so far, but have you made any determination on the return pump you'll be using. I ask this, because my next question is or will be is proper baffling spacing......It's a bit more than throwing some baffles in a sump. I'm sure your aware and don't take my words as harsh please!!!!!! Improperly spaced baffles are worthless.....On a normal size sump you'd be looking at 1" spacing just between baffles.....From past experience and depending on return pump choice you could possibly cheat the spacing to 3/4", but again return pump will have to be looked at......Another flaw; issue with the design is the "check valve". Ditch it.....Not worth the money, adds no real safety feature to the setup. They do work for a period of time, but leads to nothing, but false security......They also cut down flow or restricts flow back to the tank a bit......
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member

This drawing here is still wasting space......10 gallons.....You loosing 3"-4" with your baffles and down tube buried.....Again a bit of wasted space IMHO......There isn't any need for baffling in this fuge at all....The drain line coming from the tank doesn't need to be submerged, but can be made long enough to break the water surface, to minimize splashing; salt creep whatever, but still allow good water flow through the fuge to move your macros if you choose to run macros in this area......
I will point out however that the ball valve pictured here is correct....This is where you need to be able to regulate your flow accordingly.....Whatever you don't need here will ultimately be forced back over to the sump area......

Again this design IMHO is wasting space and uneeded......The up flow or bubble tower......By the time the water makes it's way through the fuge and outward on the other side from the bulkhead it's so slow and bubble free.......

Sorry and I know I'm a pain, but something else I looked or thought about with the top design.....Again the space can be maximized using a bubble tower/filter sock combo......Eliminating the extra set of baffles. With all those baffles you have laid out, your return area will be so small you'll have issues keeping the water level topped off and then you have to worry about back siphons from the tank as well. That's actual the least of my worries here, but really the only place you'd want baffles is between the skimmer and return section, but again if we set this up right you could possibly get away with just 2 baffles IMO.......
 
richamc01

richamc01

Member
alright. I think I may have gotten it right this time...I fell like im practically stealing your design and I hope that isnt an issue...



So i think that this is going to work. Also i plan to use the sc150 skimmer from scaquariums. They also have the 65 gallon model. Do you think that the 65 gallon model would be stong enough for my 55 gallon tank after adding the additional 20 gallon sump? I plan to have a pretty heavy load in my tank and i dont want to short myself on the skimmer.
Also im not sure about which overflow or return pump to use. do you have any recommendations?
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Looks pretty good, but I will look over it this evening when I get off the road and can fully concentrate with a good cup of coffee. Stealing designs.....Nah!!! I've picked so many bits and pieces from different builds its crazy.....
Hopefully others will chime in as well!!!!!
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richamc01 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471394
alright. I think I may have gotten it right this time...I fell like im practically stealing your design and I hope that isnt an issue...



So i think that this is going to work. Also i plan to use the sc150 skimmer from scaquariums. They also have the 65 gallon model. Do you think that the 65 gallon model would be stong enough for my 55 gallon tank after adding the additional 20 gallon sump? I plan to have a pretty heavy load in my tank and i dont want to short myself on the skimmer.
Also im not sure about which overflow or return pump to use. do you have any recommendations?
You are in very good hands already. But I thought I would chime in.
I really don't see a need for the third baffle in between the skimmer section and the return pump section. The first two should do the job. This will give you more space in the return section which will mean more water volume to evaporate before you need to top off.
Also, the reason Shawn was asking about your skimmer, and return pump choice, is that it will effect the sections you want to keep them in. You can do a search online on the skimmer choice you made and find the optimum operating level (for example it might run best in 10" of water or 8"). If you go with a baffle that is too high you can always use something to boost up the skimmer (egg crate), but if you make them too small you can't do anything. For your return pump the section needs to be big enough to house the pump and have a large enough total volume so you are not topping off water twice a day (unless that is your objective). 10g is not that big and your first designs with multiple baffles would make your return section about 1.5-2g
The ball valve on the fuge section is good. As said, it will allow you to dial the flow into the fuge and anything dialed back will just go into the other tank with the skimmer.
Not that it is the right way but I have a ball valve on my drain line just off the bulk head from the DT. But I have the drain line running about 8-10 feet going into a fish room. I like being able to totally shut off the drain and stop any flow going into the sump for maintenance. I also have a ball valve going from the return pump to the DT. This is so I can stop the back siphon before the air hole in the return does. Not needed but I like the control. There are lots of different ways to do it. For example I do not have any three baffle bubble traps in my 67g sump. It just has three sections, sectioned off by a single glass baffle. And I have never had any issues with micro bubbles. There is a guy on here that has a sump with no baffles at all just one big sump tank, the water is all at the same level.
Have you checked into a true union ball valve?? Or unions?? I used unions in my setup just in case something needs to be changed out. Then I can remove the section using the union and redo it.
What kind of overflow are you using?? Is it a U tube siphon type or is your tank drilled?
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
The water coming from the fuge and dumping into the return pump section will cause microbubbles. You should have it drop into the skimmer section instead, just before your baffles to your return pump.
 
richamc01

richamc01

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471419
You are in very good hands already. But I thought I would chime in.
I really don't see a need for the third baffle in between the skimmer section and the return pump section. The first two should do the job. This will give you more space in the return section which will mean more water volume to evaporate before you need to top off.
Also, the reason Shawn was asking about your skimmer, and return pump choice, is that it will effect the sections you want to keep them in. You can do a search online on the skimmer choice you made and find the optimum operating level (for example it might run best in 10" of water or 8"). If you go with a baffle that is too high you can always use something to boost up the skimmer (egg crate), but if you make them too small you can't do anything. For your return pump the section needs to be big enough to house the pump and have a large enough total volume so you are not topping off water twice a day (unless that is your objective). 10g is not that big and your first designs with multiple baffles would make your return section about 1.5-2g
The ball valve on the fuge section is good. As said, it will allow you to dial the flow into the fuge and anything dialed back will just go into the other tank with the skimmer.
Not that it is the right way but I have a ball valve on my drain line just off the bulk head from the DT. But I have the drain line running about 8-10 feet going into a fish room. I like being able to totally shut off the drain and stop any flow going into the sump for maintenance. I also have a ball valve going from the return pump to the DT. This is so I can stop the back siphon before the air hole in the return does. Not needed but I like the control. There are lots of different ways to do it. For example I do not have any three baffle bubble traps in my 67g sump. It just has three sections, sectioned off by a single glass baffle. And I have never had any issues with micro bubbles. There is a guy on here that has a sump with no baffles at all just one big sump tank, the water is all at the same level.
Have you checked into a true union ball valve?? Or unions?? I used unions in my setup just in case something needs to be changed out. Then I can remove the section using the union and redo it.
What kind of overflow are you using?? Is it a U tube siphon type or is your tank drilled?
alright I will do away with the third baffle. and move forward from there. I think I way do all of the ball valves like you have on your setup just so i can take it offline if i ever need to for some reason. I think that the skimmer i am going to go with is the sc150 from scaquariums and i will have to do some research to determine the proper water depth for it.
I havent checked into unions and im not too familiar with what they are but ill do some research on them.
I will be using a U tube siphon on the DT and I will be drilling one of the 10 gallon tanks on the sump/fuge. One of the tanks I have is glass and the other is acrylic. I will be drilling the acrylic one since i assume it will be cheaper and easier to drill through it.
thank you for all of the pointers
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471421
The water coming from the fuge and dumping into the return pump section will cause microbubbles. You should have it drop into the skimmer section instead, just before your baffles to your return pump.
I was planning on putting the drain from the fuge just on the surface of the water. If you watch this video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBHDVwL4YKU ..... at about 2:26 in the video is what i was planning on doing with the drain from the fuge. expect i will be doing this in my return section. This will also give me some circulation in the return chamber. Good idea? bad idea?
 
richamc01

richamc01

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471421
The water coming from the fuge and dumping into the return pump section will cause microbubbles. You should have it drop into the skimmer section instead, just before your baffles to your return pump.
also i was told that i didnt want the water from the fuge to be going through the skimmer....chance of the skimmer sucking up valuable pods.
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richamc01 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471432
also i was told that i didnt want the water from the fuge to be going through the skimmer....chance of the skimmer sucking up valuable pods.
I think I read from BangGuy that pods are not harmed by the skimmer or the return pump (how else do they get up to your DT) . But if you mean that they are sucked up to the collection cup of the skimmer and then discarded that would be true.
Check out this pic with true union ball valves and a regular union.

The pic on the left shows (up front) a regular union, and in the back you can see the red knobs of the ball valve. There is a union on each side of the ball valve. So you can shut the ball valve and disconnect the pipe using the union. They are a bit more pricy buy worth the extra $$ IMHO
HTH
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
The last design looks good. Only thing I see is the bubble tower is a little short so you might want to raise it so that it sits just above the surface of the water maybe an inch. Micro bubbles shouldn't be a big issue coming from the fuge drain. If it is you can simply put an elbow on there which will allow you to divert the flow from droping strait down into the return chamber and instead have it dispell at the surface so the bubble can rise and pop before they'd ever make it to the pump. Other then that it looks good. The third baffle in the bubble trap...you can take it or leave it.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I still think the 10g sump is way too small for a 90g tank. When I had my 20g on a 10g sump with four inches of overflow room, it seemed like it almost flooded every time. Your baffles will have to be really low.
 
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