Bullying

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/394767/bullying#post_3513812
Wait, can we just go back a second and reflect on the fact that Flower said she bit someone's finger off in a fight?
Ok, we now return to your regular programming....
LOL...I was 12, and three girls jumped me on the way home from school...one girl had put her hand in my mouth...She was gouging the inner lining of my cheek, so I bit down as hard as I could.
The girl then told me that I bit her middle finger because that was the one she was going shove up my rump (she used other words) So I told her that now she wouldn't be shoving it anywhere ever again. The other two girls jumped in and finished beating me up. I guess I didn't bite it all the way off...it was dangling by a piece of skin...past the first knuckle and between the second...and for the record, I have no idea if she was able to have it reattached....As a rule I don't hold a grudge, but to be honest, I hope she lost her whole hand from infection.
Frankly, I wasn't fighting, I was just defending myself. I didn't know them at all, and had no idea who they were.... they were not in my class at school. One girl just walked up to me and said she had heard that I called her a bad name. Now how does a person call somebody a bad name if you don't know who the heck they are????? But that logic didn't work when I told her that. Like I said, I found out many years later that I was the initiation into a gang....If I was an easy mark I wouldn't have been the initiation, I looked little, but I fully believed I was fighting for my very life, and they were trying to kill me. I had an adrenaline rush the bully just didn't have. If they knocked me down I would start kicking like doing the bicycle exercise..heel to face. it wasn't my teeth on the sidewalk...a few tuffs of my hair maybe.
I am in my 50's now and I still remember those fights like yesterday. I still cry when I think about it too.

 

[beth]

The really insane thing about bulling is that these days the kid who defends themselves could be subject to being charged with a crime! Do parents really want to see their kid who is bullied spend the night in detention? The whole system stinks. I'm glad for the anti-bullying laws, and, yes, Crimzy, sue the pants off if that is what it takes. Those parents raised a bully, and they are responsible. Schools need to take more responsibility, but, you know what? Teachers and admin are afraid of bullies too.
Bullying now days can be unseen assailants using the internet to torment kids who don't even know who the bullies are. Even adults get on the internet to torment some kid who they don't like. It is sick.
The bullies should all go to their own alternative ed school. The first incidence of bulling, you go there for 20 school days. If it happens again, then that is where you go from then on until you graduate or drop out. But it won't happen, because it is so unfair for the poor, misunderstood bully. Poor baby, can't help s/he comes from a broken home, a poor environment, etc. blah.

 

[reefraff]

I think it was in Australia but there was a video of this skinny little punk harassing a bigger kid and after being punched in the face a couple times the big kid finally bodyslams with little punk. You had people pushing for the big kid to be punished. Exactly how many times to you have to let someone slug you in the face before you fold them in quarters?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513864
I think it was in Australia but there was a video of this skinny little punk harassing a bigger kid and after being punched in the face a couple times the big kid finally bodyslams with little punk. You had people pushing for the big kid to be punished. Exactly how many times to you have to let someone slug you in the face before you fold them in quarters?
Pray tell...where were the teachers, and who was filming the video? I never will understand how someone can just stand there and do absolutely nothing to help. That's what angered me so much concerning my son...the coach and the principle were witnesses of Nick walking away from the bullies over the span of 7 months. If they had done something, anything, then Nick wouldn't of had to defend himself, and little bully booboo wouldn't have landed up in the hospital.
So as to how many times some one slugs you before you do something....how about expecting the video guru to call for some help. Those who do nothing are just as guilty as the perpetrator IMO. How much effort is it to call 911 instead of just watch? Teachers need to break up the fight and send the bully to the principles office to be dealt with.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513882
Pray tell...where were the teachers, and who was filming the video? I never will understand how someone can just stand there and do absolutely nothing to help. That's what angered me so much concerning my son...the coach and the principle were witnesses of Nick walking away from the bullies over the span of 7 months. If they had done something, anything, then Nick wouldn't of had to defend himself, and little bully booboo wouldn't have landed up in the hospital.
So as to how many times some one slugs you before you do something....how about expecting the video guru to call for some help. Those who do nothing are just as guilty as the perpetrator IMO. How much effort is it to call 911 instead of just watch? Teachers need to break up the fight and send the bully to the principles office to be dealt with.
You are expecting adult behavior out of kids.

 

[2quills]

Good luck with any of this. My mom works for a school district where students bring guns amd knives to school on a regular basis who threaten the teachers. Last year there was a teacher stabbed several times by a sudent.
Talk is cheap so sue all you want. If you dont teach kids about bullies when they are young and how to deal with them then how in the world are they going to manage when they are grown?

 

[darthtang aw]

I never will understand how someone can just stand there and do absolutely nothing to help.
news media does this all the time! I remember years ago the pullitzer prize winner for photography won the award for snapping what might have been a 6 year old starving and malnurished child little crawling a dragging itself to a relief camp somewhere in Africa handing out food that was still a mile away. The photographer did not assist the child as they were reporting in the other direction.....

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513893
news media does this all the time! I remember years ago the pullitzer prize winner for photography won the award for snapping what might have been a 6 year old starving and malnurished child little crawling a dragging itself to a relief camp somewhere in Africa handing out food that was still a mile away. The photographer did not assist the child as they were reporting in the other direction.....
It's because some of these so called journalists believe themselves to be observers in life so their philosophy is to not interfere with a story but merely observe and report about a story regardless of emotion or what their heart wants to do.
I understand the idea that parents want to protect their kids from all of the bad things in life but we will never control human nature. All of this talk of removing bullies from the schools is nothing more than mommy and daddy wanting to protect their babies from all the bad stuff that life has too offer instead of teaching them how to deal with it. While we all stand around wondering why we live in a nation that enables people to be dependent on government (big daddy) assistance or someone else to help them make their way through this life.

 

[flower]

My dear friends...I adore the both of you, but I have to say this.... Reefraff and 2Quills, you sound like my late husband. before you think that's a compliment.....
...my husband was a street puppy, that's how he dealt with life....the exact way you boys are talking about. My husband was an idiot, I loved him, God knows I loved that man, but he was an idiot. Once he made our daughter stand there among the other mean kids and tell them ...HIS OWN DAUGHTER! who was 10 at the time and in 3rd grade, that she would fight each of the kids one at a time but not all at once...those girls were in 6th grade. He stood there like a fool while she got beat up by each kid so she could learn to take up for herself. My stupid husband did that because that's how his uneducated stupid father taught him!
How much of an idiot was my man??? He was such an idiot that once he cashed our income tax money and spent it on a fancy camera. We had three children that needed new shoes and clothes badly, and I yelled at him for being so frivolous. He left to get the money back for the camera. This story is true as God is my witness. He returned later saying he could only get half of the money back. The guys at the bar didn't believe he was selling such a nice camera, and they thought it was a stolen item...then he said he had to show the guy he sold it to the receipt, before he would believe him, that it wasn't hot. My Mother, who was just standing there listening to our conversation piped in about then and asked..."if you had the receipt, why didn't you take the camera back to the store where you bought it and get a full refund?" I can still remember the totally stupid look on Dans face...the thought of doing something legal like that never occurred to him.
Surely you guys don't think that the people you mentioned did the right thing...it's an outrage to let a child die and just stand there, and watch and take pictures. Doing that is not human nature, rather it is the behavior of an imbecile. I will repeat myself...I will NEVER understand people who stand around and do nothing while someone needs help. I sure am not going to call that human nature.
.Please tell me you really don't think making a kid fight is the right way to teach them to handle the violence around them. 2 wrongs will NEVER make a right, and matching stupidity with stupidity isn't going to teach our children anything, but how to be an idiot. The street way is not the intelligent correct way to handle lifes difficulties. Teaching our children to not fight and handle their own form of justice...is not going to make them depend on the government for a handout so they can make it through life...seriously?????
Did it ever occur to you guys that if you teach your kids to take justice into their own hands, that if they follow your advice, they will land in jail and not be able to keep a good job because nobody with a brain wants to hire you with a prison record?

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513919
My dear friends...I adore the both of you, but I have to say this.... Reefraff and 2Quills, you sound like my late husband. before you think that's a compliment.....
...my husband was a street puppy, that's how he dealt with life....the exact way you boys are talking about. My husband was an idiot, I loved him, God knows I loved that man, but he was an idiot. Once he made our daughter stand there among the other mean kids and tell them ...HIS OWN DAUGHTER! who was 10 at the time and in 3rd grade, that she would fight each of the kids one at a time but not all at once...those girls were in 6th grade. He stood there like a fool while she got beat up by each kid so she could learn to take up for herself. My stupid husband did that because that's how his uneducated stupid father taught him!
How much of an idiot was my man??? He was such an idiot that once he cashed our income tax money and spent it on a fancy camera. We had three children that needed new shoes and clothes badly, and I yelled at him for being so frivolous. He left to get the money back for the camera. This story is true as God is my witness. He returned later saying he could only get half of the money back. The guys at the bar didn't believe he was selling such a nice camera, and they thought it was a stolen item...then he said he had to show the guy he sold it to the receipt, before he would believe him, that it wasn't hot. My Mother, who was just standing there listening to our conversation piped in about then and asked..."if you had the receipt, why didn't you take the camera back to the store where you bought it and get a full refund?" I can still remember the totally stupid look on Dans face...the thought of doing something legal like that never occurred to him.
Surely you guys don't think that the people you mentioned did the right thing...it's an outrage to let a child die and just stand there, and watch and take pictures. Doing that is not human nature, rather it is the behavior of an imbecile. I will repeat myself...I will NEVER understand people who stand around and do nothing while someone needs help. I sure am not going to call that human nature.
.Please tell me you really don't think making a kid fight is the right way to teach them to handle the violence around them. 2 wrongs will NEVER make a right, and matching stupidity with stupidity isn't going to teach our children anything, but how to be an idiot. The street way is not the intelligent correct way to handle lifes difficulties. Teaching our children to not fight and handle their own form of justice...is not going to make them depend on the government for a handout so they can make it through life...seriously?????
Did it ever occur to you guys that if you teach your kids to take justice into their own hands, that if they follow your advice, they will land in jail and not be able to keep a good job because nobody with a brain wants to hire you with a prison record?
You've misinterpreted my meaning. I'm talking about teaching kids how to deal with the problems that they face in life. Whether it be out smarting a bully or defending yourself in a fight it matters very little to me either way. Different responses for different circumstances. Sometimes you're left with no choice, Mrs.I chew fingers off when I'm mad lol.
When I was 5 my father put a gun and my hand and taught me how to use it. By age 7 I wanted to be enrolled in martial arts and my parent allowed and supported me in it because they know it was all about learning self discipline and how to handle yourself in situations. By the time I was a in my mid teens I was technically considered a lethal weapon. I have never been in trouble for bullying or going postal on anybody check my record. In fact, in real life I am very complacent and one of the most easy going people you ever want to know. I learned how to deal with bullying by being capable of handling myself and knowing how to avoid conflict in the first place. I also know how to hold a job and pay my bills but I don't expect a pat on the back for it.
We all know that sometimes you are left with extremely few options in life. Fight or flight and where do you go when you have no where else to run? If you run your whole life then you're always just going to be another victim for someone else to pick on.

 

[acrylic51]

Agree!!!!!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513921
You've misinterpreted my meaning. I'm talking about teaching kids how to deal with the problems that they face in life. Whether it be out smarting a bully or defending yourself in a fight it matters very little to me either way. Different responses for different circumstances. Sometimes you're left with no choice, Mrs.I chew fingers off when I'm mad lol.
When I was 5 my father put a gun and my hand and taught me how to use it. By age 7 I wanted to be enrolled in martial arts and my parent allowed and supported me in it because they know it was all about learning self discipline and how to handle yourself in situations. By the time I was a in my mid teens I was technically considered a lethal weapon. I have never been in trouble for bullying or going postal on anybody check my record. In fact, in real life I am very complacent and one of the most easy going people you ever want to know. I learned how to deal with bullying by being capable of handling myself and knowing how to avoid conflict in the first place. I also know how to hold a job and pay my bills but I don't expect a pat on the back for it.
We all know that sometimes you are left with extremely few options in life. Fight or flight and where do you go when you have no where else to run? If you run your whole life then you're always just going to be another victim for someone else to pick on.
LOL...I didn't chew a finger off for being mad...the idiot stuck her hand in my mouth and proceeded to gouge and tear out my cheek from the inside, it was more reflex than anything else..... I ran from those kids for months. I would wait an hour after school in the building in hopes they would be gone by the time I went home, (how afraid is a kid to hang out in the school bathroom an hour after school?) and often I hit the doors in a dead run in hopes of out distancing them, and making it home before they caught up to me. The experience did not build character, it left an emotional scar. Every living soul will fight when the option to run has run out....that is human nature...you don't have to teach that to anyone, no training is necessary. Nor is it needed to experience such a situation so that to know you can, nor will never having to do such a thing mean they will be picked on all their life.
I allowed my sons to learn how to box, and my nephews are black belts in Karate. I don't mind kids knowing how to defend themselves but allowing them to fight a bully and say it will prevent them from depending on others (such as the police) to fight their battles is just silly. To add that they will grow up and expect the government to hold their hand because they never learned to fight their own battles is just as silly.
0 tolerance....if you bully a kid, you get kicked out of school...Our children should be able to go to school, and not have to defend themselves. I am not coddling my children and ruining their ability to grow up and know how to handle adversity by refusing to accept bullying as just a right of passage for being a kid in public school. If a child is bringing a gun to school, or pulling a knife on a teacher...they should be permanently removed from public school and placed in a nut ward, they are violent and too dangerous to be around the normal children. I have news for you, no amount of training in martial arts can help you against a gun shooting bullets. Another kid walking up behind you and stabbing you to death...no amount of preparation will prevent the outcome.
It's a sad world we live in where the children do indeed bring such weapons to school...frankly all the more reason to teach your kids to run and take cover...because any confrontation with those kinds of kids is going to mean death or serious injury.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513919
My dear friends...I adore the both of you, but I have to say this.... Reefraff and 2Quills, you sound like my late husband. before you think that's a compliment.....
If that is what you gleamed from my post you are in serious need of a course in reading comprehension and I'll just leave it at that.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513928
LOL...I didn't chew a finger off for being mad...the idiot stuck her hand in my mouth and proceeded to gouge and tear out my cheek from the inside, it was more reflex than anything else..... I ran from those kids for months. I would wait an hour after school in the building in hopes they would be gone by the time I went home, (how afraid is a kid to hang out in the school bathroom an hour after school?) and often I hit the doors in a dead run in hopes of out distancing them, and making it home before they caught up to me. The experience did not build character, it left an emotional scar. Every living soul will fight when the option to run has run out....that is human nature...you don't have to teach that to anyone, no training is necessary. Nor is it needed to experience such a situation so that to know you can, nor will never having to do such a thing mean they will be picked on all their life.
I allowed my sons to learn how to box, and my nephews are black belts in Karate. I don't mind kids knowing how to defend themselves but allowing them to fight a bully and say it will prevent them from depending on others (such as the police) to fight their battles is just silly. To add that they will grow up and expect the government to hold their hand because they never learned to fight their own battles is just as silly.
0 tolerance....if you bully a kid, you get kicked out of school...Our children should be able to go to school, and not have to defend themselves. I am not coddling my children and ruining their ability to grow up and know how to handle adversity by refusing to accept bullying as just a right of passage for being a kid in public school. If a child is bringing a gun to school, or pulling a knife on a teacher...they should be permanently removed from public school and placed in a nut ward, they are violent and too dangerous to be around the normal children. I have news for you, no amount of training in martial arts can help you against a gun shooting bullets. Another kid walking up behind you and stabbing you to death...no amount of preparation will prevent the outcome.
It's a sad world we live in where the children do indeed bring such weapons to school...frankly all the more reason to teach your kids to run and take cover...because any confrontation with those kinds of kids is going to mean death or serious injury.
Flower, you do realize (I hope) that I was not insinuating anything towards you or the way you raise you raised your children. This is all just chatter on the internet as far as I'm concerned so please don't take anything personal. But most parents do have their blinders on when it comes to their own kids and some I personally feel are way over protective.
But please, never did I mention that the answer to bullying was for kids to go out and beat the crap out of each other until one of them submits. Because that's not how my personal philosophy works.
Isn't it funny that you mention the reliance on law enforcement when I come from a family with a kid brother who's about to join the force up north and my parents and grandparents were all x military. Some of the people that we call hero's or call upon when we are in trouble are some of the very same people who grew up exactly like I did with parents who taught them some of the very same things at an early age. I just don't buy into some of the bs that I read around here about things like that. When the majority of people need help they call upon someone who's just as big and mean as the bad guys but who uses their powers for good instead of evil, right?
Believe me when I tell ya that I've grown up around a tough neighborhood or two. I've been jumped by a group of kids for being different then them where two of them held me down while one of them commenced to punching me in the ribs and broke a couple to where I had to go to the hospital when I was young. I used to get chased by the same kids (baby thugs thinking they're gang bangers) tormenting me by pulling out knives and sticks and chasing me to my neighborhood and then holding out in front of my house. I mean we all have stories.
But in all my life I've only ever been in maybe 2 physical fights (excluding being jumped). Neither of which I threw the first punch and neither of which I wanted to happen in the first place. Perhaps you think my parents wanted me to learn how to fight when what I was taught was that the best way to protect yourself is to learn how to control your fear so that you can recognize and asses danger so that you can avoid it before it ever gets too far out of control.

 

[darthtang aw]

.Our children should be able to go to school, and not have to defend themselves.
We also shouldn't have evil in the world but we do.
Flower, there is a time to turn the other cheek as some are taught. But don't the same teachings also state there is a time to fight and defend yourself?
I also feel some are confusing gang mentallity with bullying...both are actually two separate issues.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513933
Flower, you do realize (I hope) that I was not insinuating anything towards you or the way you raise you raised your children. This is all just chatter on the internet as far as I'm concerned so please don't take anything personal. But most parents do have their blinders on when it comes to their own kids and some I personally feel are way over protective.
But please, never did I mention that the answer to bullying was for kids to go out and beat the crap out of each other until one of them submits. Because that's not how my personal philosophy works.
Isn't it funny that you mention the reliance on law enforcement when I come from a family with a kid brother who's about to join the force up north and my parents and grandparents were all x military. Some of the people that we call hero's or call upon when we are in trouble are some of the very same people who grew up exactly like I did with parents who taught them some of the very same things at an early age. I just don't buy into some of the bs that I read around here about things like that. When the majority of people need help they call upon someone who's just as big and mean as the bad guys but who uses their powers for good instead of evil, right?
Believe me when I tell ya that I've grown up around a tough neighborhood or two. I've been jumped by a group of kids for being different then them where two of them held me down while one of them commenced to punching me in the ribs and broke a couple to where I had to go to the hospital when I was young. I used to get chased by the same kids (baby thugs thinking they're gang bangers) tormenting me by pulling out knives and sticks and chasing me to my neighborhood and then holding out in front of my house. I mean we all have stories.
But in all my life I've only ever been in maybe 2 physical fights (excluding being jumped). Neither of which I threw the first punch and neither of which I wanted to happen in the first place. Perhaps you think my parents wanted me to learn how to fight when what I was taught was that the best way to protect yourself is to learn how to control your fear so that you can recognize and asses danger so that you can avoid it before it ever gets too far out of control.
I guess it doesn't take much to see I'm over sensitive on the subject...and I apologize to the both of you... upon reflection, my err is actually directed at Dan, he is gone now, I miss him... but we had our wars over the years, and I'm afraid that was one of the really big ones. He sure did some of the dumbest stuff...someday LOL....I might get a chance to share some stories of the good funny Dan that I loved and called my husband.
Kids do all kinds of stupid things, I blame it on the hormones. With the ability to get their hands on weapons...it's a frightening world we live in. Most of those same bullies grew up to really good people. That's the big worry...that they won't have the chance to grow up.
After grade school we moved out of the city...Life was normal, where girls would fight over boyfriends, and call each other names. To my amazement it stopped there. That's what I call normal taunting, and that kind of silly kid stuff will always be around. The city gangs are dangerous, and those poor kids are living in a war zone. They can't even walk to school in safety, my heart sinks every time I listen to the news and some poor child has been shot and killed.
Where I live... the city kids were relocated here when the projects were broken down and destroyed. We could take the kids out of the city, but we couldn't take the city out of the kids...the gangs are here now, and in Round Lake beach we have had drive by shootings. The city mentality has now spread like a cancer.

 

[2quills]

Well a im sure a large number of bangers start out as bullies. But here is what I have seen. Even if you take those kids out of schools and place them in other schools then a kid might be a little safer while they are at school. But when those same kids live in the same neighborhoods how to you prevent the bullying when school lets out?
Its the same mentality that thinking just because we pass more and more laws that things are bound to get better. Kids need structure, I get that. But I feel that a lot of what ive seen and heard being proposed isn't really solving very much. It just invites alterier issues to come into play. When a kid can be tossed out of school on a whim how does that benefit the rest of society?

 

[darthtang aw]

When a kid can be tossed out of school on a whim how does that benefit the rest of society?
I disagree with the tossing out on a whim. But in my case, the students I know that were expelled had been warned multiple times and their parents were talked with multiple times. That is not a "whim", and most expulsions aren't off a whim. Remember, schools gain their funding by the number of students they have, so schools really don't want to throw kids out unless they have to......especially at the middle school and lower age ranges.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513952
Well a im sure a large number of bangers start out as bullies. But here is what I have seen. Even if you take those kids out of schools and place them in other schools then a kid might be a little safer while they are at school. But when those same kids live in the same neighborhoods how to you prevent the bullying when school lets out?
Its the same mentality that thinking just because we pass more and more laws that things are bound to get better. Kids need structure, I get that. But I feel that a lot of what ive seen and heard being proposed isn't really solving very much. It just invites alterier issues to come into play. When a kid can be tossed out of school on a whim how does that benefit the rest of society?
Actually it's usually just the opposite. If people were able to take care of themselves there wouldn't be the need to be in a gang. IME most gang members are punks who gravitate to a few badassess who run the gang. Once in they tend to become bullies cause they know they have their boys behind them. Girl gangs are different though. At least the one's I am familiar with. Those were some crazy mean bioches you didn't want to mess with individually or collectively.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394767/bullying/20#post_3513957
I disagree with the tossing out on a whim. But in my case, the students I know that were expelled had been warned multiple times and their parents were talked with multiple times. That is not a "whim", and most expulsions aren't off a whim. Remember, schools gain their funding by the number of students they have, so schools really don't want to throw kids out unless they have to......especially at the middle school and lower age ranges.
Draw a picture of a gun get kicked out on the spot. Pick on a kid and get 23 warnings before getting after school detention.