BurnNSpy...common and considerate concerns for ALL devoted reefkeeepers...

[keitho]

BurnNSpy...you know, if you wouldn't have been such an xxxxxx when you responded to the first call-for-help i sent, i might have been much more willing to share with you (and all on the board) the knowledge i have gained from a year's worth of uninterrupted research. when i ask questions, it is usually because i don't know the answer, AND i'm willing to admit that for the purpose of the advancement of the hobby (NOT because i don't have the proper parameters or i haven't done the necessary research). i understand that not all people are "politically correct" and not all people really give a da*n what others think, but i DO believe it IS in the best interest of the hobby (AND the global ecosystem) to not only HELP, but ENCOURAGE those individuals that are trying to propagate the threatened species of the world (not only corals, but fish, plants, etc) for the betterment of the human race AND the PLANET. i'm sure that there are many other members of this message board that would ASK questions if they didn't feel that they would be ostracized for asking a question that OTHERS would willingly answer to the best of their ability. as members of a reef community and custodians of wonderous, very, VERY fragile ecosystems, i would not only EXPECT, but DEMAND that the ONLY focus of OUR discussions be to BETTER the reefkeeping hobby as a WHOLE. so, with the before arguements presented, i BEG you NOT to discourage future curators of our planet's prized specimens (not to mention distinctive specimens) with harsh or unusually DIRECT language. please remember that, regardless of knowledge level, we are ALL trying to create an environment in which our animals, plant, and microbes not only can live, but ALSO FLOURISH. i feel, that as evidenced by your FLOURISHING reef community, you REALLY can ADD to the hobby as a whole, if only you would try to limit the direct language that may intimidate other reefkeeper with...the choice is yours as YOU are in power on this message board...please use not only your power BUT ALSO your knowledge wisely and freely GO BurnNSpy!!!!!!!!!
[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: BurnNSpy ]
[ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: BurnNSpy ]

 

[salisbury a d]

Wow Keitho. Great speech. Not exactly the way I would have put it when I get mad and other not just BurnNSpy. At least one of us can reason with others in a civilized maner.
Keitho is so right about asking questions and then getting an answer like you are stupid, or it was your fault.
If I were to ask a question like, What should the salinity be in the aquarium. Most likely the answer I would get is I am a stupid idiot and should not be in the hobbie of marine fish.
But it is a good question because there are new hobbiest on the baord who also would like to know and everyone is telling me it should be either 1.023 or 1.025 or for fish 1.021. But I keep it in the middle at 1.023
***Also when I posted about my anemone dying I never expected to get what I got out of BurnNSpy. He basically told me it was my fault and should hire a pro at aquariums to baby sit next time I go on vacation.
Adam

 

[twoods71]

For what its worth the guy seems to me to be a little rude at times.
Hey if he makes a personal attack on you, you have all the right in the world to attack back.

 

[fender]

Next time could you discuss this in the aquarium.
Nothing here about reefs........

 

[blueberryboomer]

I must have missed this post. The only thing I can say is this....BurnNSpy has given me some great advice, I thank him for that. Everyone here is on here to learn or get or give help. If someone sound harsh to you, there is probaly a very good reason, maybe it has been gone over several times before or someone has told you it won't work and gave you the reason and you go ahead and do it anyway and then when it doesn't work you come on here boo hooing and you get I told you soo. Like I said I missed the post, so I don't know what happened, I'm just saying why it happens sometimes. When ever I have a ? that I think I've seen on here before, I do a search BEFORE I post it. Alot of the time I don't need to post after I do a search. Just my 2 cents! Lisa

 

[salisbury a d]

Fender I think it is fine here. I am not a shark so my word doesn't have anything to do with it.
But being here in this forum is good because Reef Tanks forum seems to have the most response out of all of them.
Adam

 

[pufferlover]

For the last 2 days I have come back to this post and wondered if I should respond and tonight I guess I feel like I should.
What everyone has to realize is that the members who post a lot (and yes especially the sharks) do it for the love of the hobby, not for any reward from the board owners other then being recognized for their diligence by being made a shark. We do get tired at times of seeing the same questions day after day, but in my case I tell myself that many are new and want the one on one they feel they will get here. Others do not understand the search feature ability or just choose to ignore it. So if sometimes one of us is a bit sharp just remember we are not robots and we do want to help you. The way we choose to post is just as different as everyone out there is and some are more pointed then others, but not meant to be hurtful just pointed. As many have said there are other boards out there but I have found none that give the good, sensible info you get here, and best of all it is quick and free. I do find one other thing interesting to me at least and that is there are more posts about pointed answers then posts about how much help has been gained from the members (now I realize there are some very flattering posts some times but they are in the minority and frankly it makes me wonder why people take things so out of context). Anyway just my thoughts and frankly I feel better.

 

[nm reef]

I also have watched the progression of this topic............and I'd like to say a few things before this dies a quiet death.....
1) I am not burns biggest fan......but he does offer his time and experience to any and all that seek it....myself included......just like life...........some folks just ain't never gonna be friends
2) I am sort of active on several boards....and for the most part they are all a lot more inclined to have posts of this nature.......in my personal opinion personal attacks and stuff should be avoided......I prefer this board mainly because this type of topic is rare here.........for the most part folk agree to dis-agree and learn to peacefully co-exist
3) This board has several active and knowledgeable sharks that I have personally thanked on more than one occassion(burn included)...they have helped me develope my systems and I am grateful for their help....we also have a lot of reef keepers that go out of their way to help........new guys like me....and some experienced in saltwater.....I like it here....even the bad stuff......and I'd hate to see flames become the rule like they are on other boards
HeckI've never much cared for burns responses in general.....but some of you are more than likely sick of hearing from me too....burn....nothing personal.....I'm just tryin to say it takes all sorts to make and keep this the best board on the net.....and individual personality problems DO NOT belong here..............

 

[salisbury a d]

PufferLover...
I know you can get a little cranky at the repeating of questions,
BUT,
1.there are new people on the board who might have that question.
2.It'll give other people more of the topic to search on.
3.Knowledge on the hobbie is always changing and so are the people
Adam.

 

[pufferlover]

Missed my point I think. I said that even tho questions are repeated quite often I respond where possible because I know the people are new. My point was to those who think some get short sometimes it is that sometimes , just like at work in the real world, you become a bit tired and it shows. I have never nor have I ever felt (other then one person who is gone) that any shark has gone out of their way to be rude. Your point of the nature of the hobby changing is a valid one but then the questions should become fresher along with that. My reason for a response at all was to try to point out that there is 2 sides to this type of feeling and it is worth discussing (as is being done) to clear the air. I mentioned before I am now in retail sales and if you want rude that is where you find it every day.

 

[keitho]

okay...hold on for a second. the intent of the previous post was ABSOLUTELY NOT to "bash" anyone. i just feel that sometimes it is necessary to temper frustrations and limit sharp language in an effort to avoid discouraging those of us in the reefkeeping hobby (myself included) from asking the "obvious" questions. and, BurnNSpy, i will say this to you directly...i was not attacking you. to be quite honest, the post was spurred on by an incident earlier when i was posting about having trouble with my moon coral. your response, although it could be taken several ways, was interpreted by me as an attack on not only my intelligence but also my diligence. now, granted, i may have been a little too sensitive when i read that, but i have seen the same language and attitude displayed towards many other folks on this board by a LOT of people on this board. the only thing that i don't understand is if anyone doesn't like what another person is saying or you don't want to reply, THEN DON'T REPLY AND DON'T LISTEN. this is the way i look at it and the method by which i try to limit the number of repeat posts i must type. i mean, afterall, let's be honest...no one on this board or on this planet knows everything about reefkeeping. in my circumstance, i think that there was really nothing i could have done to save the moon coral because i believe it had prior problems that only manifest themselves AFTER i purchased it. i'm sure, whether we are willing to admit it or not, that we've ALL been in that situation at least once. anyway, these thoughts represent what i believe is a fair and thoughtful way of responding to inflammatory posts, and, if nothing else, i hope people have learned to be a little tolerant of those of us that don't know everything. besides, you just might be surprised at what we DO know...

 

[andymi]

I have seen agression by some people on other boards. What I think the knowledgeable people need to remember is the fact that they were new once too. Living by a simple motto of treat people the way you would like to be treated should ring true. On numerous times, not only on this board, I have been bashed for the methods I use in my reef tanks because they are old school. Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that people are getting into this hobby with little or no information from an LFS and are looking for better answers. Thankfully, we have boards like this online. Keep in mind too that this is not forced on anyone to come here and SWF.com, the sharks and everyone else should be extremely happy that these people have made the choice to signup and use this board when there are others out there. Personally I think that when it comes down to bashing newbies that person should take a step back and re-evaluate themselves being in this hobby and helping people. This board has all kinds, from knowledgeable to newbies, adults to children. Not only are we setting a bad example when we do this for the new people getting into the hobby, but we are setting a bad example for any of the kids on this board.
Just my 2 cents, like it or not.
-Andy

 

[vince]

hey BurnNSpy, are you the same guy as ReefSpy in _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.com forum?

 

[burnnspy]

I am not ReefSpy, sounds like he/she likes my nick.
I will finally respond to this post:
What Andymi said about people getting into reefs without any knowledge is what I dread the most, is all to common and I have a very hard time understanding.
Reef keeping should not be in the same catagory as impulse buying for a pair of shoes, a game or a candy bar.
As with pufflover, I have only intentionally attacked one person on this BB and have since apologized. Since I have setup my website, I have established a FAQ page to assist novice reef keepers with frequent questions and I just redirect them there in the hope of answering more questions then they have had a chance to come up with. I am hopeful for the Reef Basics page, but haven't gotten feedback if it was useful of not.
Thank you Blueberryboomer, it only takes a little light at the end of the tunnel to keep me going.
BurnNSpy

 

[vince]

With all due respect to BurnNSpy,
if some people are agreeing to what keitho said and is having problems with the way you are acting, maybe you do need to change. We don't see any other posts concerning other member's attitude on this board but you. I'm not criticizing you but that's just what I think.

 

[salisbury a d]

Adding to what Vince said. Burn needs to learn that no matter what he does people will always impulse shop with marine tanks without research.
I know what I will say next I have said over and over.
Burn when you reply give your statement some contents. You should give some insight to you experience or what you have read to back up your answer.
And do not blame someone for a fish or inverts death unless you know for a fact that it was their fault like my anemone.
And don't be so pushy with what you say.
I don't have to have a Red Sea Test kit if I don't want it. I already have a test kit.
Adam

 

[@knight]

is it really that big of a deal??? cmon guys.
if you dont like someones post don't read them, its a simple as that. why waste your time trying to conform someone because they dont do things the way YOU want them to? the advise offered here is here because someone cares, you ask a question, be thankful you get an answer. don't sit here and bicker cuz the big bad answer was rude.

 

[salisbury a d]

@knight. How old are you. You are out and living on your own? If you are that is what I think, That or you are not the youngest in your family.
I am just pissed because I get enough BS at home from my family and never thaught I would get a snotty smart A55 remark from a highly respected person on this board.
And then this person acts like it is my fault for itr andjadf;lasdk
It obviously is a prob because so many people are concerned about it and that something or someone should change.
Adam

 

[@knight]

no salisbury, didnt mean for it to be taken that way and it wasnt directed at you.
it was smart, cus I am a "smart a55" at times, but i really dont think that an issue like this is worth wasting this much time over. why cant it be dropped and move on.
the point i was trying to make is, be happy for what you got.
btw, yeah, i do have my own pad, but really, i didnt mean to directly insult anyone, I just fail to see how anyone could let a post from someone they have never met in person get to them to this extent. I typically find rude post more humorous than anything else.
but i may be wrong, as i have been many times before, and will be again, i make no claims to perfection. just my .02

 

[vince]

the concept of "if you don't like, don't confront" will not always work. Also, most people who were pointed at for their "cranky" behaviors have been banned. It does not matter if he was nice to you or not. As a moderator, he should be nice to everyone in overall. If people are having problems with his attitude, it should not be ignored just because he was nice to you. They are part of this community too and if they are ignored, it would be starting a prejudice among swf.com bbs.