suzy
Member
Pretty interesting assessment of Iraq's progress:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/op...ewanted=1&_r=1
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/op...ewanted=1&_r=1
nwdyr
Active Member
AHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!! I come here to get away from the BS!!!! Bush sucks! we are fighting his personal war, we are dieing for his personal vendetta!! If anyone believes anything else...... I ahve a big bridge for sale , he is another John Gotti, just he hides behind his pres. sheild. coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2564862
Pretty interesting assessment of Iraq's progress:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/op...ewanted=1&_r=1
lol, you believe anything the ny times prints?
Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2564864
AHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!! I come here to get away from the BS!!!! Bush sucks! we are fighting his personal war, we are dieing for his personal vendetta!! If anyone believes anything else...... I ahve a big bridge for sale , he is another John Gotti, just he hides behind his pres. sheild. coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're right you've convinced me. I"m dumbfounded by the brilliance of your insightful opinion. You should work for the NY Times.
http:///forum/post/2564862
Pretty interesting assessment of Iraq's progress:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/op...ewanted=1&_r=1
lol, you believe anything the ny times prints?
Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2564864
AHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!! I come here to get away from the BS!!!! Bush sucks! we are fighting his personal war, we are dieing for his personal vendetta!! If anyone believes anything else...... I ahve a big bridge for sale , he is another John Gotti, just he hides behind his pres. sheild. coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're right you've convinced me. I"m dumbfounded by the brilliance of your insightful opinion. You should work for the NY Times.
theclemsonkid
Member
I thought I would go ahead and chime in here.
I am neither democrat or republican, although I will say these two basic personal ideas:
1. However unjust the war seems five years later, we unfortunately are now tied to the region whether we want to be or not. (let me add that I would have probably chosen never to be here in the first place)
2. At this pace, the war in Iraq will BANKRUPT the United States.
Am I the only sane person in this country, who sees what is happening here? Each and every day, we are spending billions of dollars in Iraq, as we are losing billions of dollars in earned income in the United States from job losses.
The most common reply to the "economic crisis" that I always hear is something like:
"The U.S. economy has its ups and downs. It has always recovered before, and it will recover once again."
Ok, that is a wonderful ideology in a world of rainbows and kittens and all... but sadly I am living in the actual real world.
America 2008 is like no other America we have ever known. For you young people, ask your parents how easy it was to get a job coming out of high school. Or for you older people, you KNOW how easy it was back just a few short decades ago. If all else failed, you had the manufacturing jobs to fall back on. And the best part about that, is that those wages were as good if not better than your post secondary education jobs.
Fast forward to 2008. Manufacturing jobs? Few and far between. And why is that? Because this government has made it very, very easy and appealing to do business elsewhere. And notice I say government, on both sides of the isle.
America is the ultimate "have its cake and eat it to" country.
We want cheap items, but we don't want to lose the jobs that provide them.
We want cheap oil, but we don't want to drill in Alaska where one of the worlds biggest reserves is to attain that price.
We want peace in the middle east, yet we not once, but TWICE elected a known war monger to the highest office.
We want to save the economy, yet support a war that to this point has cost over 750 BILLION dollars and counting.
Let's pretend for a moment that we weren't in this war, and you took that 750 billion and put it into the forclosure crisis, or the credit crunch, or God forbid EDUCATION.
Or let's try and rebuild the infrastructure of our OWN country.
More than anything, what bothers me is the fact that now a days, no one seems to care.
You have to remember that just a few short decades ago, hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets to protest a war that was simply unjust.
Now thirty some years later, we are in a war that is not simply unjust, but its dividing people, driving up oil, destroying our economy, bankrupting our future, and killing our soldiers...
And what are we doing about it?
A few thousand people show up every now and again to protest, before heading back to Starbucks to talk about how much fun that was over a venti mocha latte.
It's a sad, sad day in America....
I am neither democrat or republican, although I will say these two basic personal ideas:
1. However unjust the war seems five years later, we unfortunately are now tied to the region whether we want to be or not. (let me add that I would have probably chosen never to be here in the first place)
2. At this pace, the war in Iraq will BANKRUPT the United States.
Am I the only sane person in this country, who sees what is happening here? Each and every day, we are spending billions of dollars in Iraq, as we are losing billions of dollars in earned income in the United States from job losses.
The most common reply to the "economic crisis" that I always hear is something like:
"The U.S. economy has its ups and downs. It has always recovered before, and it will recover once again."
Ok, that is a wonderful ideology in a world of rainbows and kittens and all... but sadly I am living in the actual real world.
America 2008 is like no other America we have ever known. For you young people, ask your parents how easy it was to get a job coming out of high school. Or for you older people, you KNOW how easy it was back just a few short decades ago. If all else failed, you had the manufacturing jobs to fall back on. And the best part about that, is that those wages were as good if not better than your post secondary education jobs.
Fast forward to 2008. Manufacturing jobs? Few and far between. And why is that? Because this government has made it very, very easy and appealing to do business elsewhere. And notice I say government, on both sides of the isle.
America is the ultimate "have its cake and eat it to" country.
We want cheap items, but we don't want to lose the jobs that provide them.
We want cheap oil, but we don't want to drill in Alaska where one of the worlds biggest reserves is to attain that price.
We want peace in the middle east, yet we not once, but TWICE elected a known war monger to the highest office.
We want to save the economy, yet support a war that to this point has cost over 750 BILLION dollars and counting.
Let's pretend for a moment that we weren't in this war, and you took that 750 billion and put it into the forclosure crisis, or the credit crunch, or God forbid EDUCATION.
Or let's try and rebuild the infrastructure of our OWN country.
More than anything, what bothers me is the fact that now a days, no one seems to care.
You have to remember that just a few short decades ago, hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets to protest a war that was simply unjust.
Now thirty some years later, we are in a war that is not simply unjust, but its dividing people, driving up oil, destroying our economy, bankrupting our future, and killing our soldiers...
And what are we doing about it?
A few thousand people show up every now and again to protest, before heading back to Starbucks to talk about how much fun that was over a venti mocha latte.
It's a sad, sad day in America....
stdreb27
Active Member
2. At this pace, the war in Iraq will BANKRUPT the United States.
Actually this isn't exactly true. Most if not all the stuff the army buys has to be american made. So a good chunk of that money is spent here in the united states. Funding manufacturing, R&D, and other jobs here in the usa.
Am I the only sane person in this country, who sees what is happening here? Each and every day, we are spending billions of dollars in Iraq, as we are losing billions of dollars in earned income in the United States from job losses. I'm not sure how we are loosing billions of dollars in job losses. The only net job losses have been recorded over the last quarter. After about 5 continuous years of growth. I'm not sure I get what you're saying. You're talking a hypothetical loss that doesn't represent anything.
The most common reply to the "economic crisis" that I always hear is something like:
"The U.S. economy has its ups and downs. It has always recovered before, and it will recover once again."
Ok, that is a wonderful ideology in a world of rainbows and kittens and all... but sadly I am living in the actual real world.
The real world where we never recovered from the Great Depression, several real recessions after WWII to the double digit inflaiton of the Carter years? And the redefined recession where we still had growth during W's first term? Yeah, the American Economy is going to fail after all we are in tough times. real gdp growth at .6%, unemployment at 5%, a whopping .83% of homes were in forclosure in the last quarter of 07. We really are up poo creek without a paddle. It is you that needs a reality check.
America 2008 is like no other America we have ever known. For you young people, ask your parents how easy it was to get a job coming out of high school. Or for you older people, you KNOW how easy it was back just a few short decades ago. If all else failed, you had the manufacturing jobs to fall back on. And the best part about that, is that those wages were as good if not better than your post secondary education jobs.
hmm, 24 years ago unemployment rates were almost 10 percent. yeah real easy to find a job.
Fast forward to 2008. Manufacturing jobs? Few and far between. And why is that? Because this government has made it very, very easy and appealing to do business elsewhere. And notice I say government, on both sides of the isle. you know look at todays closed economies and tell me how well those countries are doing.
America is the ultimate "have its cake and eat it to" country.
We want cheap items, but we don't want to lose the jobs that provide them. So is it government's fault or our fault if we don't pay the price for the more expensive American made products.
We want cheap oil, but we don't want to drill in Alaska where one of the worlds biggest reserves is to attain that price. This is true
We want peace in the middle east, yet we not once, but TWICE elected a known war monger to the highest office. You're right, we should have left Sadaam and his REAL torture chambers in power.
We want to save the economy, yet support a war that to this point has cost over 750 BILLION dollars and counting.
ummm previously addressed.r />
Let's pretend for a moment that we weren't in this war, and you took that 750 billion and put it into the forclosure crisis, or the credit crunch, or God forbid EDUCATION. Or let the people KEEP THEIR OWN MONEY! Instead of wasting it on failing ISD's, come on DC spends over 20 grand on each student in their district. Money is not the problem in education.
Or let's try and rebuild the infrastructure of our OWN country.
Sure, why not, but come on we have an excellent infrastructure compaired to many other countries in the world. (guys see that show on NAT GEO or was it Discovery on the Death Road in south america?)
Come on, you're dose of the "real world" has some serious problems.
Actually this isn't exactly true. Most if not all the stuff the army buys has to be american made. So a good chunk of that money is spent here in the united states. Funding manufacturing, R&D, and other jobs here in the usa.
Am I the only sane person in this country, who sees what is happening here? Each and every day, we are spending billions of dollars in Iraq, as we are losing billions of dollars in earned income in the United States from job losses. I'm not sure how we are loosing billions of dollars in job losses. The only net job losses have been recorded over the last quarter. After about 5 continuous years of growth. I'm not sure I get what you're saying. You're talking a hypothetical loss that doesn't represent anything.
The most common reply to the "economic crisis" that I always hear is something like:
"The U.S. economy has its ups and downs. It has always recovered before, and it will recover once again."
Ok, that is a wonderful ideology in a world of rainbows and kittens and all... but sadly I am living in the actual real world.
The real world where we never recovered from the Great Depression, several real recessions after WWII to the double digit inflaiton of the Carter years? And the redefined recession where we still had growth during W's first term? Yeah, the American Economy is going to fail after all we are in tough times. real gdp growth at .6%, unemployment at 5%, a whopping .83% of homes were in forclosure in the last quarter of 07. We really are up poo creek without a paddle. It is you that needs a reality check.
America 2008 is like no other America we have ever known. For you young people, ask your parents how easy it was to get a job coming out of high school. Or for you older people, you KNOW how easy it was back just a few short decades ago. If all else failed, you had the manufacturing jobs to fall back on. And the best part about that, is that those wages were as good if not better than your post secondary education jobs.
hmm, 24 years ago unemployment rates were almost 10 percent. yeah real easy to find a job.
Fast forward to 2008. Manufacturing jobs? Few and far between. And why is that? Because this government has made it very, very easy and appealing to do business elsewhere. And notice I say government, on both sides of the isle. you know look at todays closed economies and tell me how well those countries are doing.
America is the ultimate "have its cake and eat it to" country.
We want cheap items, but we don't want to lose the jobs that provide them. So is it government's fault or our fault if we don't pay the price for the more expensive American made products.
We want cheap oil, but we don't want to drill in Alaska where one of the worlds biggest reserves is to attain that price. This is true
We want peace in the middle east, yet we not once, but TWICE elected a known war monger to the highest office. You're right, we should have left Sadaam and his REAL torture chambers in power.
We want to save the economy, yet support a war that to this point has cost over 750 BILLION dollars and counting.
ummm previously addressed.r />
Let's pretend for a moment that we weren't in this war, and you took that 750 billion and put it into the forclosure crisis, or the credit crunch, or God forbid EDUCATION. Or let the people KEEP THEIR OWN MONEY! Instead of wasting it on failing ISD's, come on DC spends over 20 grand on each student in their district. Money is not the problem in education.
Or let's try and rebuild the infrastructure of our OWN country.
Sure, why not, but come on we have an excellent infrastructure compaired to many other countries in the world. (guys see that show on NAT GEO or was it Discovery on the Death Road in south america?)
Come on, you're dose of the "real world" has some serious problems.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2564272
Please. Talk about watching too many movies. You don't think they monitor the international waters surrounding the US? Hey, let them pull a cargo ship down the Mississippi and fire one of them babies off! We can have Arnuld, Rambo, or Steven Segal jump on the ship and stop them before they pull the trigger!
Cargo ships Rudedog.... you know, the kind that carry things like oil? All they need to do is get a nuclear warhead, and they can wipe out any one of our major port cities very easily. "Pentagon and Missile Defense Agency officials increasingly are concerned with the threat of terrorists using a cargo ship to fire cruise and ballistic missiles just off U.S. shores but outside its territorial waters." http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,110199,00.html
Not a movie theme....
http:///forum/post/2564272
Please. Talk about watching too many movies. You don't think they monitor the international waters surrounding the US? Hey, let them pull a cargo ship down the Mississippi and fire one of them babies off! We can have Arnuld, Rambo, or Steven Segal jump on the ship and stop them before they pull the trigger!
Cargo ships Rudedog.... you know, the kind that carry things like oil? All they need to do is get a nuclear warhead, and they can wipe out any one of our major port cities very easily. "Pentagon and Missile Defense Agency officials increasingly are concerned with the threat of terrorists using a cargo ship to fire cruise and ballistic missiles just off U.S. shores but outside its territorial waters." http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,110199,00.html
Not a movie theme....
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2564862
Pretty interesting assessment of Iraq's progress:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/op...ewanted=1&_r=1
Great article, found in the opinon section, written by an unamed editorialist, full of inaccuracies (based on other actual (and sourced) news articles).
http:///forum/post/2564862
Pretty interesting assessment of Iraq's progress:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/op...ewanted=1&_r=1
Great article, found in the opinon section, written by an unamed editorialist, full of inaccuracies (based on other actual (and sourced) news articles).
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2564864
AHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!! I come here to get away from the BS!!!! Bush sucks! we are fighting his personal war, we are dieing for his personal vendetta!! If anyone believes anything else...... I ahve a big bridge for sale , he is another John Gotti, just he hides behind his pres. sheild. coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait, wait, wait... learly you havent checked your emails recently. The "private Bush's War" talking point is no longer in vogue. Please catch up with the latest talking point. I'd hate to see us have to dismantle that nonsense all over again...
Here, in a nutshell:
*Clinton, in 1998 said Iraq had WMDs
*Irag refused to comply
*Congress voted to authorize (including leading Dems)
*Every major Intel Agency in the world said Saddam had WMDs
*President Bush has no financial interest in the War
http:///forum/post/2564864
AHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!! I come here to get away from the BS!!!! Bush sucks! we are fighting his personal war, we are dieing for his personal vendetta!! If anyone believes anything else...... I ahve a big bridge for sale , he is another John Gotti, just he hides behind his pres. sheild. coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait, wait, wait... learly you havent checked your emails recently. The "private Bush's War" talking point is no longer in vogue. Please catch up with the latest talking point. I'd hate to see us have to dismantle that nonsense all over again...
Here, in a nutshell:
*Clinton, in 1998 said Iraq had WMDs
*Irag refused to comply
*Congress voted to authorize (including leading Dems)
*Every major Intel Agency in the world said Saddam had WMDs
*President Bush has no financial interest in the War
1journeyman
Active Member
How is the war tied to a recession?
Iraq is exporting almost the same amount of oil now as they were Pre-Invasion. If you believe the cost of oil will go down when Iran controls the Iraqi oil fields you're dreaming...
Iraq is exporting almost the same amount of oil now as they were Pre-Invasion. If you believe the cost of oil will go down when Iran controls the Iraqi oil fields you're dreaming...
rudedog40
Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2565047
Wait, wait, wait... learly you havent checked your emails recently. The "private Bush's War" talking point is no longer in vogue. Please catch up with the latest talking point. I'd hate to see us have to dismantle that nonsense all over again...
Here, in a nutshell:
*Clinton, in 1998 said Iraq had WMDs
*Irag refused to comply
*Congress voted to authorize (including leading Dems)
*Every major Intel Agency in the world said Saddam had WMDs
*President Bush has no financial interest in the War
Another nutshell:
*Daddy Bush goes over there to protect the Kuwait oil fields
* Chases Sadaam out of Kuwait
* Sadaam has WMD's at that time
* Instead of surging into Iraq to rid the world or Sadaam, Daddy Bush Cuts and Runs home.
* A Trillion dollars will now be spent on Gulf War 2
journey you flip-flop more than Perry. First we're there because of WMD's, then we're over there to kill every terrorists (because that's what war is), then it's to bring democracy to the region. Which one is it? Oh that's right! It's all three!! Like I asked you before, what will it take in your mind to end this war?
http:///forum/post/2565047
Wait, wait, wait... learly you havent checked your emails recently. The "private Bush's War" talking point is no longer in vogue. Please catch up with the latest talking point. I'd hate to see us have to dismantle that nonsense all over again...
Here, in a nutshell:
*Clinton, in 1998 said Iraq had WMDs
*Irag refused to comply
*Congress voted to authorize (including leading Dems)
*Every major Intel Agency in the world said Saddam had WMDs
*President Bush has no financial interest in the War
Another nutshell:
*Daddy Bush goes over there to protect the Kuwait oil fields
* Chases Sadaam out of Kuwait
* Sadaam has WMD's at that time
* Instead of surging into Iraq to rid the world or Sadaam, Daddy Bush Cuts and Runs home.
* A Trillion dollars will now be spent on Gulf War 2
journey you flip-flop more than Perry. First we're there because of WMD's, then we're over there to kill every terrorists (because that's what war is), then it's to bring democracy to the region. Which one is it? Oh that's right! It's all three!! Like I asked you before, what will it take in your mind to end this war?
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2565076
Another nutshell:
*Daddy Bush goes over there to protect the Kuwait oil fields
* Chases Sadaam out of Kuwait
* Sadaam has WMD's at that time
* Instead of surging into Iraq to rid the world or Sadaam, Daddy Bush Cuts and Runs home.
* A Trillion dollars will now be spent on Gulf War 2
journey you flip-flop more than Perry. First we're there because of WMD's, then we're over there to kill every terrorists (because that's what war is), then it's to bring democracy to the region. Which one is it? Oh that's right! It's all three!! Like I asked you before, what will it take in your mind to end this war?
Rudedog, you keep trying to tie me to arguments I never made...
I've never, ever said we went to war over a single issue.
I've answered repeatedly what it would take to end the war. A Democratically elected Iraqi Government, with the neccessary police force to work with our Intel to prevent Al Qaeda from being a presence, with a military strong enough to secure their borders from Iran.
http:///forum/post/2565076
Another nutshell:
*Daddy Bush goes over there to protect the Kuwait oil fields
* Chases Sadaam out of Kuwait
* Sadaam has WMD's at that time
* Instead of surging into Iraq to rid the world or Sadaam, Daddy Bush Cuts and Runs home.
* A Trillion dollars will now be spent on Gulf War 2
journey you flip-flop more than Perry. First we're there because of WMD's, then we're over there to kill every terrorists (because that's what war is), then it's to bring democracy to the region. Which one is it? Oh that's right! It's all three!! Like I asked you before, what will it take in your mind to end this war?
Rudedog, you keep trying to tie me to arguments I never made...
I've never, ever said we went to war over a single issue.
I've answered repeatedly what it would take to end the war. A Democratically elected Iraqi Government, with the neccessary police force to work with our Intel to prevent Al Qaeda from being a presence, with a military strong enough to secure their borders from Iran.
rudedog40
Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2565252
Rudedog, you keep trying to tie me to arguments I never made...
I've never, ever said we went to war over a single issue.
I've answered repeatedly what it would take to end the war. A Democratically elected Iraqi Government, with the neccessary police force to work with our Intel to prevent Al Qaeda from being a presence, with a military strong enough to secure their borders from Iran.
Then I guess you're ***. I just read in the paper this morning where 1,300 Iraqi police and military personnel quit and refused to fight during the Basra conflict. or any future conflict. At least their 'Democratically elected Iraqi Government' didn't do what Sadaam would've done --- had then shot, drawn, and quartered. It's a shame our American troops can't do the same without any recourse. You'd find your 'retention rates' dramatically skewed...
http:///forum/post/2565252
Rudedog, you keep trying to tie me to arguments I never made...
I've never, ever said we went to war over a single issue.
I've answered repeatedly what it would take to end the war. A Democratically elected Iraqi Government, with the neccessary police force to work with our Intel to prevent Al Qaeda from being a presence, with a military strong enough to secure their borders from Iran.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2565306
Then I guess you're ***. I just read in the paper this morning where 1,300 Iraqi police and military personnel quit and refused to fight during the Basra conflict. or any future conflict. At least their 'Democratically elected Iraqi Government' didn't do what Sadaam would've done --- had then shot, drawn, and quartered. It's a shame our American troops can't do the same without any recourse. You'd find your 'retention rates' dramatically skewed...
First, watch the language. Abbrevations for profanity are not allowed.
Second, I'm not personally invested in this war. To imply failure in Iraq is bad for me and not for our country is shallow at best.
Third, Yes. out of 15,000 soldiers and police the Iraqi army did have over a thousand refuse orders. They have been fired (probably also in that article you read) and are being prosecuted and court marshalled.
Fourth... Please explain why re-enlistment rates are solid if so many soldiers want to bail like you keep implying?
http:///forum/post/2565306
First, watch the language. Abbrevations for profanity are not allowed.
Second, I'm not personally invested in this war. To imply failure in Iraq is bad for me and not for our country is shallow at best.
Third, Yes. out of 15,000 soldiers and police the Iraqi army did have over a thousand refuse orders. They have been fired (probably also in that article you read) and are being prosecuted and court marshalled.
Fourth... Please explain why re-enlistment rates are solid if so many soldiers want to bail like you keep implying?
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2564164
I haven't seen a report saying where he is.
I think we can agree, however, that Al Qaeda is in Iraq, correct?
We work with many countries that are not Democracies but still allow us to hunt terrorists within their borders.
We know he is somewhere b/w Pakistan and Afganistan in those mountains
http:///forum/post/2564164
I haven't seen a report saying where he is.
I think we can agree, however, that Al Qaeda is in Iraq, correct?
We work with many countries that are not Democracies but still allow us to hunt terrorists within their borders.
We know he is somewhere b/w Pakistan and Afganistan in those mountains
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2565331
We know he is somewhere b/w Pakistan and Afganistan in those mountains
No we don't. We assume, but we certainly don't know that.
http:///forum/post/2565331
We know he is somewhere b/w Pakistan and Afganistan in those mountains
No we don't. We assume, but we certainly don't know that.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2565050
How is the war tied to a recession?
Iraq is exporting almost the same amount of oil now as they were Pre-Invasion. If you believe the cost of oil will go down when Iran controls the Iraqi oil fields you're dreaming...
Yet, they are not using there profits to rebuild their land... they are using us to do that... This oil thing is fueling the recession.. Look at some of the major exporters we get oil from... many of them are in conflicts or at odds with the USA... I believe they are doing this purposely...
http:///forum/post/2565050
How is the war tied to a recession?
Iraq is exporting almost the same amount of oil now as they were Pre-Invasion. If you believe the cost of oil will go down when Iran controls the Iraqi oil fields you're dreaming...
Yet, they are not using there profits to rebuild their land... they are using us to do that... This oil thing is fueling the recession.. Look at some of the major exporters we get oil from... many of them are in conflicts or at odds with the USA... I believe they are doing this purposely...
theclemsonkid
Member
stdreb27;2565013 said:
theclemsonkid
Member
America 2008 is like no other America we have ever known. For you young people, ask your parents how easy it was to get a job coming out of high school. Or for you older people, you KNOW how easy it was back just a few short decades ago. If all else failed, you had the manufacturing jobs to fall back on. And the best part about that, is that those wages were as good if not better than your post secondary education jobs.
hmm, 24 years ago unemployment rates were almost 10 percent. yeah real easy to find a job.
Ok, I'll give you that one. I guess I'm just confused as to why a 20 something white kid with a masters degree can't find a job that pays more than 11.00 an hour. I only ask because for the last seven months prior to this one, that was me. And you can bet your butt I was looking. Again, I think you need to qualify the "quality" of a job vs just having one.
Fast forward to 2008. Manufacturing jobs? Few and far between. And why is that? Because this government has made it very, very easy and appealing to do business elsewhere. And notice I say government, on both sides of the isle. you know look at todays closed economies and tell me how well those countries are doing.
I never said a completely closed economy. But they better do something, be it with NAFTA or the tax situation. I would love for you, or anyone, to explain to me how our economy is going to recover if we keep sending more and more jobs overseas because we make it so easy and profitable to do so for the top 1% who own these companies.
America is the ultimate "have its cake and eat it to" country.
We want cheap items, but we don't want to lose the jobs that provide them. So is it government's fault or our fault if we don't pay the price for the more expensive American made products.
I'm not saying it's anyones fault. I just tire of hearing people complain about the economy, yet they would complain if prices at WalMart went up 20%, you know?
We want cheap oil, but we don't want to drill in Alaska where one of the worlds biggest reserves is to attain that price. This is true
We want peace in the middle east, yet we not once, but TWICE elected a known war monger to the highest office. You're right, we should have left Sadaam and his REAL torture chambers in power.
Say what you want about Saddam. He is no different than a handful of other dictators in the world. And believe me, what he did is MUCH less than what is going on is Africa, and even parts of Asia. But of course there is nothing of significance in those places (i.e. oil), so why do we as Americans really care what is going on?
We want to save the economy, yet support a war that to this point has cost over 750 BILLION dollars and counting.
ummm previously addressed.
Let's pretend for a moment that we weren't in this war, and you took that 750 billion and put it into the forclosure crisis, or the credit crunch, or God forbid EDUCATION. Or let the people KEEP THEIR OWN MONEY! Instead of wasting it on failing ISD's, come on DC spends over 20 grand on each student in their district. Money is not the problem in education.
You use that one example. You come to Ohio where I live and I will show you white upper class schools paying teachers 50% more a year, going to school in new buildings, and learning on the latest technology. Then I'll take you to the hood, where it looks like a third world country and we can talk about where the money is going...
Or let's try and rebuild the infrastructure of our OWN country.
Sure, why not, but come on we have an excellent infrastructure compaired to many other countries in the world. (guys see that show on NAT GEO or was it Discovery on the Death Road in south america?)
Did you know that in the past three years Iraq has gotten more new highways and bridges than the United States? Just think if we build those here in our OWN country. Safer streets and a few hundred thousand jobs to boot. Sounds crazy to me.
hmm, 24 years ago unemployment rates were almost 10 percent. yeah real easy to find a job.
Ok, I'll give you that one. I guess I'm just confused as to why a 20 something white kid with a masters degree can't find a job that pays more than 11.00 an hour. I only ask because for the last seven months prior to this one, that was me. And you can bet your butt I was looking. Again, I think you need to qualify the "quality" of a job vs just having one.
Fast forward to 2008. Manufacturing jobs? Few and far between. And why is that? Because this government has made it very, very easy and appealing to do business elsewhere. And notice I say government, on both sides of the isle. you know look at todays closed economies and tell me how well those countries are doing.
I never said a completely closed economy. But they better do something, be it with NAFTA or the tax situation. I would love for you, or anyone, to explain to me how our economy is going to recover if we keep sending more and more jobs overseas because we make it so easy and profitable to do so for the top 1% who own these companies.
America is the ultimate "have its cake and eat it to" country.
We want cheap items, but we don't want to lose the jobs that provide them. So is it government's fault or our fault if we don't pay the price for the more expensive American made products.
I'm not saying it's anyones fault. I just tire of hearing people complain about the economy, yet they would complain if prices at WalMart went up 20%, you know?
We want cheap oil, but we don't want to drill in Alaska where one of the worlds biggest reserves is to attain that price. This is true
We want peace in the middle east, yet we not once, but TWICE elected a known war monger to the highest office. You're right, we should have left Sadaam and his REAL torture chambers in power.
Say what you want about Saddam. He is no different than a handful of other dictators in the world. And believe me, what he did is MUCH less than what is going on is Africa, and even parts of Asia. But of course there is nothing of significance in those places (i.e. oil), so why do we as Americans really care what is going on?
We want to save the economy, yet support a war that to this point has cost over 750 BILLION dollars and counting.
ummm previously addressed.
Let's pretend for a moment that we weren't in this war, and you took that 750 billion and put it into the forclosure crisis, or the credit crunch, or God forbid EDUCATION. Or let the people KEEP THEIR OWN MONEY! Instead of wasting it on failing ISD's, come on DC spends over 20 grand on each student in their district. Money is not the problem in education.
You use that one example. You come to Ohio where I live and I will show you white upper class schools paying teachers 50% more a year, going to school in new buildings, and learning on the latest technology. Then I'll take you to the hood, where it looks like a third world country and we can talk about where the money is going...
Or let's try and rebuild the infrastructure of our OWN country.
Sure, why not, but come on we have an excellent infrastructure compaired to many other countries in the world. (guys see that show on NAT GEO or was it Discovery on the Death Road in south america?)
Did you know that in the past three years Iraq has gotten more new highways and bridges than the United States? Just think if we build those here in our OWN country. Safer streets and a few hundred thousand jobs to boot. Sounds crazy to me.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2565339
Yet, they are not using there profits to rebuild their land... they are using us to do that... This oil thing is fueling the recession.. Look at some of the major exporters we get oil from... many of them are in conflicts or at odds with the USA... I believe they are doing this purposely...
You clearly do not understand global commodity trading Rylan.
Near record levels of oil are being produced. Supply/demand and speculators are driving the price of oil. In conjunction with the weak US dollar that a barrel of oil is tied too.
http:///forum/post/2565339
Yet, they are not using there profits to rebuild their land... they are using us to do that... This oil thing is fueling the recession.. Look at some of the major exporters we get oil from... many of them are in conflicts or at odds with the USA... I believe they are doing this purposely...
You clearly do not understand global commodity trading Rylan.
Near record levels of oil are being produced. Supply/demand and speculators are driving the price of oil. In conjunction with the weak US dollar that a barrel of oil is tied too.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2564228
Senator Obama doesn't seem to agree.
"Al Qaeda is not in Ir --" said Obama at which point he caught himself and finished the sentence by saying: "the key Al Qaeda leadership is not based in Iraq (taken from comments April 11th)
This, of course, goes along with his comments during the Feb 26th Democratic debate where he said he would send troops back to Iraq if Al Qaeda ever tried to set up a base there.
Whats wrong with this? At least he caught himself, unlike another candidates... He didn't give false information about Iran, and he didn't misspeak about sniper fire...
His comments seem to be along the same lines as Petreas about Afghanistan, and that should be our focus. I agree that this should be the best course of action.. Target Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.. and if they set up strongholds in Iraq.. target those specifically.. Much of the fighting in Iraq isn't even by so called "terrorist" but by rivaling militias..(now they are terrorist in the since of the word, but not ones that our dangerous to us domestically). Our focus should have always been Bin Laden 1st. According what was said, what has been done since, and the consequences.. his judgement on this war has been on.
http:///forum/post/2564228
Senator Obama doesn't seem to agree.
"Al Qaeda is not in Ir --" said Obama at which point he caught himself and finished the sentence by saying: "the key Al Qaeda leadership is not based in Iraq (taken from comments April 11th)
This, of course, goes along with his comments during the Feb 26th Democratic debate where he said he would send troops back to Iraq if Al Qaeda ever tried to set up a base there.
Whats wrong with this? At least he caught himself, unlike another candidates... He didn't give false information about Iran, and he didn't misspeak about sniper fire...
His comments seem to be along the same lines as Petreas about Afghanistan, and that should be our focus. I agree that this should be the best course of action.. Target Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.. and if they set up strongholds in Iraq.. target those specifically.. Much of the fighting in Iraq isn't even by so called "terrorist" but by rivaling militias..(now they are terrorist in the since of the word, but not ones that our dangerous to us domestically). Our focus should have always been Bin Laden 1st. According what was said, what has been done since, and the consequences.. his judgement on this war has been on.