florida joe
Well-Known Member
Quote:
UH HUH....so JOE......got anything to say to me
ummm ummm how was you day honey
UH HUH....so JOE......got anything to say to me
ummm ummm how was you day honey
Can a fish cure ICH with its immune system ???
- Thread starter ivasawajin
- Start date
meowzer
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348451
ummm ummm how was you day honey
LOL.....better since you are back again
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348451
ummm ummm how was you day honey
LOL.....better since you are back again
J
jstdv8
Guest
Get a room!
ivasawajin
Member
i thought this is about ICH and not your love life ... anyway thanks for the info . i should get some cleaner shrimps , i got a cleanet wrasse though
meowzer
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvasawaJin http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348493
i thought this is about ICH and not your love life ... anyway thanks for the info . i should get some cleaner shrimps , i got a cleanet wrasse though
LOL....sorry about that...just some friendly joking
A cleaner shrimp will not hurt, as long as you remember it also is not a cure....and YES you can have both a cleaner shrimp and a cleaner wrasse
Originally Posted by IvasawaJin http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348493
i thought this is about ICH and not your love life ... anyway thanks for the info . i should get some cleaner shrimps , i got a cleanet wrasse though
LOL....sorry about that...just some friendly joking
A cleaner shrimp will not hurt, as long as you remember it also is not a cure....and YES you can have both a cleaner shrimp and a cleaner wrasse
J
jstdv8
Guest
Moderator injustice.
Ban the Meo!!!
Ban the Meo!!!
gemmy
Active Member
Here is some good info on the life cycle of ich:
The Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease (Cryptocaryon) parasite has 4 distinct phases in its life. (See Graphic below.)
[*]
1. Tomont Stage
[*]
Trophonts which have burrowed into the gills & formed cysts, protected by gill mucus.
Trophonts can live in the cyst embedded in the gills almost indefinitely.
herit; font-weight: inherit; text-decoration: inherit; ">No effective treatment at this stage.[*]2.
[*]
osition: outside; list-style-image: none; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; text-decoration: inherit; ">Parasites (Tomites) discharged from the Tomont cyst and become free swimming.[*]Tomites can survive for 1-2 days before they must find another host.
[*]
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) treatment effective in exploding the Tomites.
[*]
Many chemical treatments effective at this stage.
4. Trophont Stage
Tomites which attached to the fish's gills feed from the host, grow, form a cyst and become dormant.
Tomites which attach to the fish's surface feed from the host, grow, detach from the fish and go to the Trophont Stage 2.
ation: inherit; ">
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) treatment effective in exploding the surface cysts.
[*]
Some chemicals effective in treatment of surface cysts at this stage.
[*]
The Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease (Cryptocaryon) parasite has 4 distinct phases in its life. (See Graphic below.)
[*]
1. Tomont Stage
[*]
Trophonts which have burrowed into the gills & formed cysts, protected by gill mucus.
Trophonts can live in the cyst embedded in the gills almost indefinitely.
herit; font-weight: inherit; text-decoration: inherit; ">No effective treatment at this stage.[*]2.
[*]
Tomont
- cysts have been discharged from the gills.
Can survive for 6 to 10 days
- in the cyst.
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) and some chemical treatments are effective in exploding the cyst and Tomites
- .
osition: outside; list-style-image: none; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; text-decoration: inherit; ">Parasites (Tomites) discharged from the Tomont cyst and become free swimming.[*]Tomites can survive for 1-2 days before they must find another host.
[*]
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) treatment effective in exploding the Tomites.
[*]
Many chemical treatments effective at this stage.
4. Trophont Stage
Tomites which attached to the fish's gills feed from the host, grow, form a cyst and become dormant.
Tomites which attach to the fish's surface feed from the host, grow, detach from the fish and go to the Trophont Stage 2.
ation: inherit; ">
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) treatment effective in exploding the surface cysts.
[*]
Some chemicals effective in treatment of surface cysts at this stage.
[*]
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Get a room!
Hobbyists do it in salt water
Get a room!
Hobbyists do it in salt water
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Great info. My limited knowledge begs me to ask.
“Trophonts can live in the cyst embedded in the gills almost indefinitely.”
The ick parasite is genetically programed to reproduce so it will not stay attached to the fish indefinitely, how can it
“No effective treatment at this stage”
Actually a fresh water dip can help .
“Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) and some chemical treatments are effective in exploding the cyst and Tomites.”
Hypo does not explode the cysts what it does is not allow the transfer of fluids needed to multiply or so I think.
Chemicals kill the ick parasite while it is in its free swimming state by exposing them to toxins I believe and are useless in any other stage
“Trophonts can live in the cyst embedded in the gills almost indefinitely.”
The ick parasite is genetically programed to reproduce so it will not stay attached to the fish indefinitely, how can it
“No effective treatment at this stage”
Actually a fresh water dip can help .
“Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) and some chemical treatments are effective in exploding the cyst and Tomites.”
Hypo does not explode the cysts what it does is not allow the transfer of fluids needed to multiply or so I think.
Chemicals kill the ick parasite while it is in its free swimming state by exposing them to toxins I believe and are useless in any other stage
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348587
Great info. My limited knowledge begs me to ask.
“Trophonts can live in the cyst embedded in the gills almost indefinitely.”
The ick parasite is genetically programed to reproduce so it will not stay attached to the fish indefinitely, how can it
“No effective treatment at this stage”
Actually a fresh water dip can help .
“Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) and some chemical treatments are effective in exploding the cyst and Tomites.”
Hypo does not explode the cysts what it does is not allow the transfer of fluids needed to multiply or so I think.
Chemicals kill the ick parasite while it is in its free swimming state by exposing them to toxins I believe and are useless in any other stage
I had seen my fish really spread the gills so the cleaner shrimp could do a good job...no doubt they were getting the cysts embedded in there.
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348587
Great info. My limited knowledge begs me to ask.
“Trophonts can live in the cyst embedded in the gills almost indefinitely.”
The ick parasite is genetically programed to reproduce so it will not stay attached to the fish indefinitely, how can it
“No effective treatment at this stage”
Actually a fresh water dip can help .
“Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock) and some chemical treatments are effective in exploding the cyst and Tomites.”
Hypo does not explode the cysts what it does is not allow the transfer of fluids needed to multiply or so I think.
Chemicals kill the ick parasite while it is in its free swimming state by exposing them to toxins I believe and are useless in any other stage
I had seen my fish really spread the gills so the cleaner shrimp could do a good job...no doubt they were getting the cysts embedded in there.
J
jstdv8
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348573
Quote:
Get a room!
Hobbyists do it in salt water
Ha, that's funny. One of my Signatures on a different forum say's "Hunters do it in the woods."
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383081/can-a-fish-cure-ich-with-its-immune-system/20#post_3348573
Quote:
Get a room!
Hobbyists do it in salt water
Ha, that's funny. One of my Signatures on a different forum say's "Hunters do it in the woods."
al mc
Active Member
My 2 cents: Since I do not scientifically know how to test for dormant Ich or do PCR testing for Ich DNA in Flower's tank i can not prove or disprove her theory that she had Ich and with good husbandry practice/keeping her fish immune's system healthy that she has eliminated the Ich from her tank. However, through many posts on this site and others about how difficult it can be to treat Ich with conventional therapies....copper, hyposalinity and/or fallow tanks...I believe it is dangerous to assert that the best way to eliminate Ich from your tank is garlic, vitamins and good nutrition.
This may not have been anyone's intention but I do not want to have any new people to this hobby get the impression that this is a good way to eliminate the parasite from their tanks.
This may not have been anyone's intention but I do not want to have any new people to this hobby get the impression that this is a good way to eliminate the parasite from their tanks.
bill109
Active Member
im not trying to make any statements here, but before my tank crashed from a faulty heater, i saw a tang get ich and it stayed on one fish. it fell off in a matter of a couple days, and it never came back. it may have been dormant but it never came back even with multiple fish in the tank. it could of been low stress or other factors, but it never once came back..
im just sharing my experiences here, an odd coincidence perhaps.
im just sharing my experiences here, an odd coincidence perhaps.
J
jstdv8
Guest
Like Joe said earlier, Ich cannot go dormant.
It either dies or it feed on a part of the fish that you can't see (Gills)
the white spots you see are not the ich itself, its a sort of scar where the ich has went in and burried itself inside the fish, what you are seeing is basically scar tissue.
The likley reason the ich never came back is due to your fish being helathy enough to fight it off from being able to penetrate the exterior skin of the fish (slimecoat) so instead (if it is still present in the system) It attacks the area of the fish that is always vulnerable, and that is the inside of the gills.
It could be in there reproducing for a long time and you would never see it.
Then you have a power outage, or add a new fish that causes other fish to stress out, or a heater malfunction and your fish get stressed and thier slimecoat is weakened. Then all the ich that has built up over time attacks.
It either dies or it feed on a part of the fish that you can't see (Gills)
the white spots you see are not the ich itself, its a sort of scar where the ich has went in and burried itself inside the fish, what you are seeing is basically scar tissue.
The likley reason the ich never came back is due to your fish being helathy enough to fight it off from being able to penetrate the exterior skin of the fish (slimecoat) so instead (if it is still present in the system) It attacks the area of the fish that is always vulnerable, and that is the inside of the gills.
It could be in there reproducing for a long time and you would never see it.
Then you have a power outage, or add a new fish that causes other fish to stress out, or a heater malfunction and your fish get stressed and thier slimecoat is weakened. Then all the ich that has built up over time attacks.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Just a note on ick and the gills of the fish. The ick parasite in of itself does not kill the fish. While the parasite feeding on the fish both body and gills weakens the fish and makes it susceptible to infection and secondary diseases. The primary reason for death do to ick infestation is the impacting of the gills by the sheer numbers of the parasite