Can I Report Bad/Illegal LFS?

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2496365
As for the bristle worms, this yet again shows me that this guy isn't as educated in the hobby as he makes himself out to be. Although i am by no means an expert, so please don't get that idea. Bristle worms are scavengers and will eat dead things and uneaten food. There is only one type of worm that can sting you when you touch it, it is a fireworm - and these apparently are the bad ones that can eat corals. So you need to be sure which one you have in your tank, perhaps a picture or a possible color description would help a more seasoned hobbiest identify.
My point being all bristle worms aren't bad.
There are thousands of species of Bristleworms and hundreds of species of Fire Worms. Most are scavengers, some are not. Most Fire Worms have bristles that can be irritating to your skin, a few have venom but are not common. A few can eat coral, one that I know of can eat Aiptasia, a couple can catch and eat small fish. 99% are beneficial.

 

[kanicky]

Originally Posted by nina&noah
http:///forum/post/2496315
He used to be a manager at my current LFS for a number of years. He said that he used to see the hitch hickers a lot when collecting Florida live rock was legal. He said the small fish stores, like the one I used to go to, often go to a particular spot to collect the live rock. He said that one of two things happened.
1. It was collected illegally
2. It is extremely old rock that has been in someone else's tank.
Given that it had a mantis shrimp, he was sure it was the first one.
What makes him think it's illegal to collect Florida LR? As Bang Guy pointed out, "Tampa Bay Saltwater and Gulf-View live rock is legally harvested in the Gulf." Also, most fish stores I'm aware of do not personally go out and collect LR. They have it shipped to them, or they buy it directly from wholesalers.
I do have a question, more for your source of info than for you: What does illegally purchased rock have to do with having a mantis shrimp? That's like saying, "She had an accident because she has a white car." What does one have to do with the other?
TONS of people get mantis shrimp hitch-hikers on "legally obtained" live rock. Having a mantis shrimp in your tank doesn't mean that your live rock was obtained illegally. Heck, I've even seen people have dwarf octopi as hitch-hikers! It's amazing what life can continue to live on the rock, even if it's been out of the water for hours, or moved from place to place.
I would call this guy on his BS.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2496337
This guy is providing you with lots of misinformation.
Yup.. Either he is trying to impress you by making stuff up, or he's just wrong. I would be very leery of allowing him to take care of my tank either way; And it'd be a snowball's prayer in Hades before I paid him to do anything.
For one thing, he's not bothering to address the issue of high Nitrates. It's true that water changes remove them, but you need to find the source. did you go too long between water changes? Tank overstocked? inadequate circulation allowing detritus build up? Over feeding? Improper substrate or substrate depth?

 

[nina&noah]

Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2496365
As for the bristle worms, this yet again shows me that this guy isn't as educated in the hobby as he makes himself out to be. Although i am by no means an expert, so please don't get that idea. Bristle worms are scavengers and will eat dead things and uneaten food. There is only one type of worm that can sting you when you touch it, it is a fireworm - and these apparently are the bad ones that can eat corals. So you need to be sure which one you have in your tank, perhaps a picture or a possible color description would help a more seasoned hobbiest identify.
My point being all bristle worms aren't bad.
Interesting! Ok the one I had was a pinkish red on the sides and white on top. I don't have a picture because we took him out and dumped him. If I see the others I will try to get a picture. They hide in the rock, so it might be difficult.
I find it very interesting how many different opinions there are in this hobby. It is enough to make your head spin. I never know who to trust!

 

[nina&noah]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2496532
Yup.. Either he is trying to impress you by making stuff up, or he's just wrong. I would be very leery of allowing him to take care of my tank either way; And it'd be a snowball's prayer in Hades before I paid him to do anything.
For one thing, he's not bothering to address the issue of high Nitrates. It's true that water changes remove them, but you need to find the source. did you go too long between water changes? Tank overstocked? inadequate circulation allowing detritus build up? Over feeding? Improper substrate or substrate depth?
Well that was kind of his point. He said that the rock was the source of the high Nitrates. Regardless, we've got that under control now. I don't know what to think anymore.

 

[lexluethar]

Just take everything with a grain of salt. You will hear a lot of opinions on how to do things. But generally speaking people will attest to this board because we have no profit from giving you information, opposed to the maintenance guy COULD have your pocket book in mind. "oh man its going to take 4 weeks of water changes to get those nitrates down because it is in your LR" type of thing. Or if he's on a mission to exterminate all bristle worms from your tank when 90% are harmless.
Its not to say he is wrong, just don't follow ANYONES advise blindly, research (not just here read a book or some actual studies), get different opinions and come to your own conclusion based off of what you've experienced and what different people have told you. Once you become more experienced, more of your advice and knowledge will come from your own experience instead of others words.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2496798
Its not to say he is wrong, just don't follow ANYONES advise blindly, research (not just here read a book or some actual studies), get different opinions and come to your own conclusion based off of what you've experienced and what different people have told you. Once you become more experienced, more of your advice and knowledge will come from your own experience instead of others words.
I agree, listen politely, ask pointed questions, and then do what you think makes the most sense. Just don't fall into the trap of taking the easiest advice or asking the same question over and over until you get the answer you want.

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/2496342

I was just replying???!?!?!?!?!?!
Man I can't seem to say anything right on these boards these days.
You say tons of the right things.
Sorry ophiura, I was just in a pissy mood last night. Probably could have said what I wanted to better. But yeeeeeeessssssss

some species are restricted to which body of water they live in.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/arthrop...raca/royslist/
Anyways, I don't think the OP has a snowballs chance in going after the LFS about her rock. And for someone to say that the rock "definitely" came from a specific spot.....maybe he collected the rock himself illegally for the store??

 

[ophiura]

At least I feel better now.

You can certainly get an idea of whether it is Florida/Caribbean or Indo Pacific, but more specific narrow range distributions are much less common for animals. Not impossible (Galapagos fauna) but not common. And the odds, frankly, of this guy specifically identifying something to species (especially a polychaete) is, IMO, low.

So I think he may have been able to say "you have rock from Florida/Caribbean" at least in part...and that is about the most he can do. If you have ever added coral from the store or traded (most of which will be Indo Pacific and on rock bits), then all bets are off.

 

[nina&noah]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2496809
I agree, listen politely, ask pointed questions, and then do what you think makes the most sense. Just don't fall into the trap of taking the easiest advice or asking the same question over and over until you get the answer you want.
That is good advice. I think sometimes I might be guilty of doing exactly that.

 

[gonefishcrazy]

which part of Miami? I go to some in nmb, nm, pembroke pines, hallandale.

 

[wfd1008]

you know, maybe this guy is able to tell you where your rock is from because he has seen it alot from that one area because HE was one of the people collecting it from there. just spitting that out there.
as far as not being allowed to collect LR out of FL waters, a guy at a LFS here said the same thing. that you have to have a permit to collect rock and only from certain areas, also that you haver to have a permit to have a rock farm in flordia waters and only in certain areas. I didn't buy any LR from him so i didn't ask more questions. how true this is, i don't know.

 

[bodacious]

I asked my uncle who is a diver for the u.s government and he said you can't tell where it comes from

 

[nina&noah]

Originally Posted by gonefishcrazy
http:///forum/post/2497096
which part of Miami? I go to some in nmb, nm, pembroke pines, hallandale.
I live in Doral. The store that sold me the rock is here in Doral, but now I go to a store on Bird Rd. Where is the store in Pem. Pines? My inlaws live there.

 

[nina&noah]

Originally Posted by bodacious
http:///forum/post/2497312
I asked my uncle who is a diver for the u.s government and he said you can't tell where it comes from
That's interesting, thanks.

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/2497006
At least I feel better now.

You can certainly get an idea of whether it is Florida/Caribbean or Indo Pacific, but more specific narrow range distributions are much less common for animals. Not impossible (Galapagos fauna) but not common. And the odds, frankly, of this guy specifically identifying something to species (especially a polychaete) is, IMO, low.

So I think he may have been able to say "you have rock from Florida/Caribbean" at least in part...and that is about the most he can do. If you have ever added coral from the store or traded (most of which will be Indo Pacific and on rock bits), then all bets are off.
Completely agree.
Personally, I avoid ever using Florida/Caribbean rock anymore. From my own experience, it's usually chock full of hitchhikers that I didn't want.
Not that it's bad rock if cured out properly. Plus if it is farmed on the West coast of Florida, there is a chance that it can have excessive amounts of phosphates in it. With all the terrestial runoff from pesticides and fertilizers, we have some issues with water conditions sometimes here in the Sunshine State.

 

[nina&noah]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to send an update. The LFS I was talking about in this thread was shut down last month. I didn't find out until last week. Unfortunately I don't know the details. All I know is that there was an "investigation" and they were shut down the same week. I don't know if they got busted for doing something illegal with the animals or if it was financial. At the very least, "karma" bit them in the butt. I shouldn't be happy about other people's misfortune, but I am happy that one bad LFS is out of business!

 

[ophiura]

Many LFS do run "back door" operations supplying illegal fish or other animals if they are a pet store. There are definitely many possibilities.