Can I use crushed coral in reef tank?

[nj27000]

Just wondering if I can use it in reef,
I started out thinking that salt water
hobby was just adding fish..didnt know that
there was a reef tank and fish tank choice
at any rate... I have crushed coral any advice
? Thank in advance for your response <img src="graemlins//confused.gif" border="0" alt="[confused]" />

 

[joshh]

cc will trap the poop

 

[madd catt]

Crushed coral is great in a reverse undergravel filter system because instead of fitering down its its fitering up or through it.for a tank wi no reverse flow system you could try araganite by caribsea small partical substrate.

 

[karvis]

you could but you have to seperate it into 5 parts and change one part after a couple months, etc. so you wont disrupt the bacteria colonies that nuch.

 

[wrassecal]

I'm in the process of removing my crushed coral, gets too messy, don't like the looks as much as sand etc. It is a pain to remove! I only do about a 1/8 at a time and then put that in some cut panty hose back in the tank to keep the bio load going. I predict if you use it you will end up like me, slowly changing over to deep sand bed.

 

[mr.bubble]

I have cc, IT SUCKS!! I want to remove it! cc is a major nitrate factory! at will trap all the poopoo, But it will just rot. Now live sand had nice bacteria in it that eats all the poopoo and dead matter. How the heck do i remove this cc? i keep taking out some cc, and adding SOME live sand it takes tooooo long. Just save yourself ALOT of time and get live sand.

 

[lubbockfishdude]

I hope this doesnt sound like asilly question, but how does sand not trap detritus? If it falls to the floor of the tank and is then covered up due to movement, wouldnt it cause a nitite buildup just as cc does? A thorough explanation on how sand works as opposed to cc would be great. Thanks reef friends.

 

[ren]

well sand has more surface area than CC due to the size. This area houses bacteria that 'feeds' on the detris disposing of it. Also with a deep sand bed there ia a oxygen free area at the botton that houses the bacteria to fully complete the nitrogen cycle:
Ammonia->nitrite->nitrate->nitrogen

 

[kris walker]

Sign..., this issue just won't go away.
CC is not a nitrate factory. That is just rubbish. If it were, then no reef tank would have it, and many do.
There are lots of critters in CC just like there are in sand. And they eat detritus, poop, whatever just as they do in sand. It does not simply decay away. Someone with a sand bed should take a fine look at a tank with a healthy CC bed (esp. with a flashlight at night--there is lots of movement down there, lots of critters).
In sand, critter poop gets all over the place (critters play in sand). In CC you have poop just the same. Some of this poop must decay, but you have this decay in BOTH.
And then there is biofiltration. The observations are in. Ok, time to remember all these observations rather than conveniently forget when passing the "CC's bad" dogma around. Many people with CC have 0 nitrates, and they've posted here before. Why? Well, could be many things. LR has been suggested to have anoxic zones in it, which can house nitrate-consuming bacteria. CC under LR may be isolated enough from water circulation to house nitrate consuming bacteria. A 3 in CC bed by itself may be deep enough to be a DSB.
Since we always assume the sand is the way to go, let me ask some questions that I think have not been resolve yet.
1. If circulation is almost non-existent in a sand bed, how can it effectively process ammonia and nitrite originating from the water column? How can the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate travel back and forth through the biomedia effectively?
2. The smaller the better I always hear based on surface area considerations (for bacteria to colonize). Well, the smaller the grains, also the harder it is to circulate water (and therefore ammonia/nitrite/nitrate) through it, so the worse the nitrate processing in theory.
Nobody to this day has pointed out an objective study that compares the results of having a DSB versus having an equally thick CC bed. This nitrate-factory idea is IMO dogma that is not founded in experiments.
With all this said, I must say that I LIKE sand better than CC, and if I had known how much better sand looks when I put my tank up, I would not have thought twice about getting the sand instead.
I must also say that I don't here many reports from people who have DSB's who have nitrate problems. So maybe DSB's are better at processing nitrates, despite those above questions. HOWEVER, that does not mean CC is a "nitrate factory".
Let's give the "CC's bad" thing a rest please. It ain't bad, just something else's more popular these days.
EDIT: maybe I'm lucky, but I have 0 nitrates, feed my corals (no fish) everyday, and do not clean the gravel at all. I cleaner crew consists of 2 starfish, 3 shrimp, and 12 snails.
Just my 0.04,
kris

 

[fshhub]

1,circulation is not desired in a dsb, b/c you want the lower layers to remain low in oxygen, which is where the bacteria taht finishes breaking down the nitrates live, yes they DO, now sand and cc may be used, but a 3 " cc bed is not any where near the same as a 3 inch bed of sand
2, again, you do NOT want circulation in the dsb, it is the one thing you do not want, it defeeats teh purpose of having it altogether
not dogma, c allows water to pass through and so on, whihc enables the cc to trap the detritus, yes some have used cc effectively, BUT sand is more effective, and easier maintenance than cc
IMO, objective study or not, i have used both, and both on the same tank, after doing alot of research(open research, not blind guessing and trying to avoid the issue) and have found that dogma or otherwise, i have found the cc to not be a nitrate factory, but have not yet found a better description that can be understoood by lamen's and more to the point, not to mention that although not accurate, teh term nitrate factory is an oft used term so it is teh first thing that comes to mind for most( like the term airplane or military intelligence, nether is any where near a description for the item tehy name)
and another point, to have the same affect with cc, you need at least 4 times OR MORE cc than sand to have the sam esurface area, and to create teh anoxic zones desired, so 3 inches of cc is not near the same as 3 inches of sand
now that alllll being said, like i menitoned above, there are many cc users who have had no problems( i agreee, kris), but htey do involve more maintenance and are not quite as affective in the long run as sand(for he same volume)
BUT
they can work well
i myself, as mentioned have used both and now only use sand, by choice, and i do reccommend it, but cc CAN be used, howveve rit is more a thing of the past with most of us, many of us have used it but if we had it to do over again would definitely consider using sand the next time(if we have not already switched yet
HTH and good luck

 

[kris walker]

Fshhub, there has to be some circulation in a DSB to get the nitrate in the water column (say that output from the LR) into the deeper part. You can't have poor circulation and great nitrate processing at the same time. To get the nitrate processed, it has to get into the DSB somehow. Do you see what I'm sayin? Thanks for your reply, it's good to hear from you after so long.
Goldfish, ls will only denitrify if it if "sufficiently deep" to create an o2-poor layer at the bottom due to low circulation (as clearly stated by fshhub). It will not denitrify otherwise. So if it isn't deep enough, there is no benefit over a shallow CC bed other than looks.
And if something does not denitrify, it doesn't mean it adds to nitrates. So is the choice really that simple?
"Now, if you were to use just crushed coral in say a fish only tank that has no live sand critters introduced to it, then I will call it a nitrate factory."
Again, there is no reason to call it a nitrate factory. If the CC doesn't denitrify, which has not been proven and observations suggest otherwise, at least for light-moderate bioloads, then it simply doesn't denitrify. That doesn't mean it produces nitrates like a factory.
Anway, as you all can tell, I've huffed and puffed on this for too long. So if you want to continue giving CC a hard time, then fine. Your typing fingers, your choice.
But I will prove you all wrong someday when I can afford the objective tests. I will revive CC!!
kris

 

[steamboat1569]

I have crushed coral in my 55 gal. I hate it. I have had it for 4 yrs. I have to vacuum it 2 times a month to keep the algea away. I am now building a 75 to 100 gal tank. I will switch to sand this time.

 

[hockeyplyr]

I posted this in fish section also so Ill make it short. I ve have a fish only tank stocked heavely for aprox1.5 years and my Nitrates have never gone above ten. I am About to Change to LS simply because of aesthetics. Im sure it is possible that is may have some advantages but keep in mind the tank you see listed bellow. And I never do water changes My ammonia is always 0, Nitrites 0 and my Nitrates have never gone above 10 . This is the gods truth, IMO If you have good filtration its a mute point. There are many alarmists on this site many different setups work just as well as others. If Ive learned one thing in my short time in this hobbie it is nothing is carved in stone. Its alot of trial and error.
So Take advise with a grain of salt. I agrea hole hardedly with Kris their is alot of advise spat out that is not coming from experiance on this site. But more from hearsay. I want to hear from the Guy who set up his Tank with CC and could never get his nitrates down until he got rid of it.
Do you all get my point I bet Kris Gets it. Like He said, Simply dont give out information based on theory and what you have read we could all read a book and find out how its supose to be but IMO what forums like this are for are for the trading of experiances. the telling of results that came from certain practices.
I know Im venting but I hope someone who is just starting reads this because Ive done many things that people have said were neccesary and through my own experimenting found out they were not.
So in conclusion it would be nice to just hear input about what somone has tried in practice and work or did not work. Not what you heard.

 

[steamboat1569]

CC is a mistake. My nitrates with CC have been ok too. My test was wrong, even salifert. I am switching to a deep sand bed.

 

[fshhub]

ok, you do have to have good circulation, but not inside the bed of sand, the critters and bacteria will aid in nitrate reduction, as i said, the term nitrate factory is more of a term used, and kris is correct it is more like a be lacking in some nitrate reducing abilities,
as for whether or not it will work, yes cc will work, i said before it will and have used it,
but, it does require some maintenance that is not needed with sand, adn realy should have a skimmer and or a wet dry filter or something
sand on the other hand, in a very mature system, needs nothigng except for water circulation, i have a dsb with no skimmer or anything, except powerheads, we have no algae problems at all, and our nitrates are generally about 5 to 10, but do occasionally get as highg as 20, if ywe do not watch it and do water changes, a cc with nothing else, IMO has a hard time achieving these numbers, if even possible, without some more assistance
HTH

 

[nj27000]

ok now I am really confused..lol..
well I had already put in cc and live sand on top...so expense wise...I will just have to deal with it...just wanted to know that it was possible to handle...any opinion about the effect of using both or even mixing?? Thanks for al your post

 

[jim672]

Hey New Joisey! How's the traffic on the GSP?
I started my tank with CC. After the tank matured, never had a problem with ammonia, nitrate or nitites but almost constantly had phosphate problems which tranlated into huge issues with algea....on the CC, the glass, my LR, etc. I removed the CC...not an easy or quick process....and replaced it with LS. Also purchased a very good clean-up crew, but now no algea problems.
Having LS over CC kind of defeats some of the positive aspects of having both. With just CC, you can keep it clean, as someone else mentioned, by regular "vacuuming". The LS would get sucked-up in the combination tank so you can't really do that now. Over time, the smaller sand grains will filter down between the larger grains of CC and you'll loose some of the asthetic value of having sand.
Bottom line...it's there so go with it. Watch your phosphate level. Enjoy.

 

[josh]

Hi,
I have had CC for almost 5 years, nitrates never get aboue 5.... ever. The DSB bandwagon has been running rampid, espically in this BB. Kris had a good point, if CC is sooo bad, then why are there so many beautiful healthy reefs with CC? If you do have a CC bed, then the debate is whether to vacuum or not, I never have vacuumed by CC bed and have never had any problems what so ever. The DSB is a very over rated solution to the nitrate problems some folks have. While I don't argue that a DSB works, it must be maintained regardless of what people say, you have to get critters in there to break down the waste whatever substrate you use. Give the revolution 5 years and see what the long term effects are. Having said all this, I don't think it's bad per se. I just wouldn't ever swtich over an established CC bed to a DSB bed.. way to great of potential for crash.. and the DSB dosen't mature for months, so what have you really gained? Ok off the soapbox and I am dauning my flame retartdent cloathing
Just one reefers opinions of the matter, take it with a grain of salt like any other advice.

 

[josh]

It may be old school, but many people have great success with it. Also, myself and others have never proclaimed that a DSB is bad or CC is better we are just giving our viewpoint and out experiences with our substrate, which is the whole point of our BB. And to say someone is full of it just b/c they hold a different viewpoint than yours, is just not what this BB is all about. nuff said.
BTW - sweet tank

 

[josh]

Originally posted by josh:
Having said all this, I don't think it's bad per se. I just wouldn't ever swtich over an established CC bed to a DSB bed.. way to great of potential for crash.. [/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Let's atleast try to read the post before commenting on it, as I said a DSB is fine I just would never switch over just b/c some people think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
- - I am surprised Kelly hasn't gotten in on this debate yet, he is always up for a good spirited debate. If it was about lights, you know he would be here !
- - Sea Wraith, must be black magic