Can just one supporter of the AR-15 please annswer a simple few questions with no spin?
- Thread starter theclemsonkid
- Start date
2quills
Well-Known Member
It isnt about just the idea of banning assult rifles. Like you said in the first post...if we start doing this everu time something bad happens then where does it all end?
It would be all to easy for me to sit here and judge someone else for drinking alcohol that has easily killed more innocent people than assult rifles. Would it feel fair to you if I took away your wine because joe blow down the street cant control himself or drink responsibly? Some people find enjoyment with thier guns much like u find enjoyment in a glass of wine. Personaly I feel that wine is a womans drink anyway but I wouldnt try to take that away from you. What you think are ticky tacky reasons for owning an assult riffle the same could be said about your wine drinking. And this is what I believe everyone else here seems to already grasp the concept of accept the small few who argue against the wants or desires to own an AR.
It would be all to easy for me to sit here and judge someone else for drinking alcohol that has easily killed more innocent people than assult rifles. Would it feel fair to you if I took away your wine because joe blow down the street cant control himself or drink responsibly? Some people find enjoyment with thier guns much like u find enjoyment in a glass of wine. Personaly I feel that wine is a womans drink anyway but I wouldnt try to take that away from you. What you think are ticky tacky reasons for owning an assult riffle the same could be said about your wine drinking. And this is what I believe everyone else here seems to already grasp the concept of accept the small few who argue against the wants or desires to own an AR.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
How many of us need or could even drive a 200mph sports car.
Yet we buy cars that look like that.
Or do we need all the SUV also with v8 engines.
Yet we buy those also.
Of for that matter an off road type jeep.
Yet how many of those are bought every year.
for that matter what is the economic reasone for buying a prius or other hybred.
Yet we buy those also.
So again what makes something an assult rifle and how do we "control" those?
Yet we buy cars that look like that.
Or do we need all the SUV also with v8 engines.
Yet we buy those also.
Of for that matter an off road type jeep.
Yet how many of those are bought every year.
for that matter what is the economic reasone for buying a prius or other hybred.
Yet we buy those also.
So again what makes something an assult rifle and how do we "control" those?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504730
I guess I just still don't get why a woman who lives by herself with a kid with mental problems left a gun accessible.
This is the key issue in this case, and unfortunately, one that we'll never have a good answer too....
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504730
I guess I just still don't get why a woman who lives by herself with a kid with mental problems left a gun accessible.
This is the key issue in this case, and unfortunately, one that we'll never have a good answer too....
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504547
I tried asking this in the other thread, but it kept getting deflected and changed. So, I will ask in standard testing format here, hoping to get a response or two, because I genuinely want to know. Not because I think I'm right and you're wrong, but because I honestly want to know the justification in your head.
1. While I fully support the right to defend your home with a 9mm, shotgun, and other small capacity weapons, I feel like a semi-automatic assault rifle serves no purpose other than carnage. You, as the owner of an assault rifle, purchased that weapon because it offers what advantages, which a 9mm or shotgun does not?
2. If you are into game hunting, does an assault rifle offer you something that a standard low capacity rifle, or shotgun style weapon does not? If so, what does it offer?
3. Do you think that going out to shoot game with laws saying you can't have big magazines and semi-automatic rifles would be worth even the possibility that just one life would be saved? Or do you feel it's the status quo, and people will die anyways, why should my hunting be affected?
4. Lastly, I know a lot of NRA'ers are scared that "it's a slippery slope" when it comes to this. You start with assault rifles, but where does it stop? Before you know it, they outlaw all guns, and it's just the criminals, nutjobs, and government who have weapons while law abiding citizens will ultimately be the ones who get screwed. Is this a genuine concern? And also, do you believe that one day, you may actually need an assault rifle to fend off the government, or government troops, and that the second amendment gives you that right?
For some reason I decided to go back to the original post because we have spun out off direction. Why do we need street cars that can go over 100 MPH? The fastest LEGAL limit is 65 on an expressway. Why do we need a TV the size of a movie theater? Why do folks keep pitbulls? None of the things on my short list here are NEEDED, they are just wanted.
People are on some sort of ego trip maybe, and bigger, badder, faster makes them feel good???? Lots of folks can drink socially, and some folks are alcoholics. Many people have guns, and some are nuts or criminals. I like grass snakes, but some folks want a rattlesnake for a pet...I don't get it either, but why should a few nuts make it not allowed for others?
If banning all assault riffles would actually make a difference...I would jump on the band wagon...but it won't, so I don't. The media has a bunch of crap stirred up right now. I honestly think all they are doing is planting the idea in another nuts head to try the same thing or top it.
Just my opinion.
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504547
I tried asking this in the other thread, but it kept getting deflected and changed. So, I will ask in standard testing format here, hoping to get a response or two, because I genuinely want to know. Not because I think I'm right and you're wrong, but because I honestly want to know the justification in your head.
1. While I fully support the right to defend your home with a 9mm, shotgun, and other small capacity weapons, I feel like a semi-automatic assault rifle serves no purpose other than carnage. You, as the owner of an assault rifle, purchased that weapon because it offers what advantages, which a 9mm or shotgun does not?
2. If you are into game hunting, does an assault rifle offer you something that a standard low capacity rifle, or shotgun style weapon does not? If so, what does it offer?
3. Do you think that going out to shoot game with laws saying you can't have big magazines and semi-automatic rifles would be worth even the possibility that just one life would be saved? Or do you feel it's the status quo, and people will die anyways, why should my hunting be affected?
4. Lastly, I know a lot of NRA'ers are scared that "it's a slippery slope" when it comes to this. You start with assault rifles, but where does it stop? Before you know it, they outlaw all guns, and it's just the criminals, nutjobs, and government who have weapons while law abiding citizens will ultimately be the ones who get screwed. Is this a genuine concern? And also, do you believe that one day, you may actually need an assault rifle to fend off the government, or government troops, and that the second amendment gives you that right?
For some reason I decided to go back to the original post because we have spun out off direction. Why do we need street cars that can go over 100 MPH? The fastest LEGAL limit is 65 on an expressway. Why do we need a TV the size of a movie theater? Why do folks keep pitbulls? None of the things on my short list here are NEEDED, they are just wanted.
People are on some sort of ego trip maybe, and bigger, badder, faster makes them feel good???? Lots of folks can drink socially, and some folks are alcoholics. Many people have guns, and some are nuts or criminals. I like grass snakes, but some folks want a rattlesnake for a pet...I don't get it either, but why should a few nuts make it not allowed for others?
If banning all assault riffles would actually make a difference...I would jump on the band wagon...but it won't, so I don't. The media has a bunch of crap stirred up right now. I honestly think all they are doing is planting the idea in another nuts head to try the same thing or top it.
Just my opinion.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504752
People are on some sort of ego trip maybe, and bigger, badder, faster makes them feel good????
I call it the human condition. People do it because if it either makes them feel alive or brings them some sort of exitement. If we have to ask why then we need to look no further than our own selves for the answers. Can't nobody here tell me that they've never done something or purchased something for no other reason then they just freakin wanted to. Some of which, we will never understand about one another. I'm ok with that.
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504752
People are on some sort of ego trip maybe, and bigger, badder, faster makes them feel good????
I call it the human condition. People do it because if it either makes them feel alive or brings them some sort of exitement. If we have to ask why then we need to look no further than our own selves for the answers. Can't nobody here tell me that they've never done something or purchased something for no other reason then they just freakin wanted to. Some of which, we will never understand about one another. I'm ok with that.
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504752
For some reason I decided to go back to the original post because we have spun out off direction. Why do we need street cars that can go over 100 MPH? The fastest LEGAL limit is 65 on an expressway. Why do we need a TV the size of a movie theater? Why do folks keep pit bulls? None of the things on my short list here are NEEDED, they are just wanted.
People are on some sort of ego trip maybe, and bigger, badder, faster makes them feel good???? Lots of folks can drink socially, and some folks are alcoholics. Many people have guns, and some are nuts or criminals. I like grass snakes, but some folks want a rattlesnake for a pet...I don't get it either, but why should a few nuts make it not allowed for others?
If banning all assault riffles would actually make a difference...I would jump on the band wagon...but it won't, so I don't. The media has a bunch of crap stirred up right now. I honestly think all they are doing is planting the idea in another nuts head to try the same thing or top it.
Just my opinion.
Not technically true on the speed limit.....Pit bulls are another I disagree with the analogy.....It's not the dogs themselves that are evil or wrong it's what some humans have done to demonize this breed....Heck you could even put Rottweilers in that group, but I could have left my 200lb Rotty with the smallest of child and she wouldn't have hurt a flea....You might not have gotten close to that child either, but we as society have demonized things that really aren't that "bad" as we are led to be believe and that's because of a few "bad eggs"......
I don't see a huge TV or a fast car as an ego trip.....I personally don't like TV, but with all the craziness why would I go to a theater and pay their outrageous prices for movie, popcorn and candy, when I can comfortably and safely sit in my own home and enjoy the same things I could in a movie theater....I don't see anything wrong with fast cars.....Again responsible individuals, and we can't "police" everything 100%; 100% of the time....I was a car nut and had no problem dumping money into fast cars, but also have paid the price of being foolish with those toys as well, but there's place for everything......
You hit the nail on the head IMHO Flower......WHY SHOULD A FEW NUTS ruin things for the rest.....It's almost like my old days in the military of mass punishment.....1 screws up we all suffer....We're all grown adults or hope to think that way, and should have a free choice to choose at will what will and won't do as long as we don't harm and infringe on others well being.....
I know we are talking about such a heinous crime that took place, but how much different is driving under the influence......Sure we all grieve over the loss of such innocent life, but how is this "crime" any different than what just recently took place....Everyday people are killed by reckless individuals. We all know that we shouldn't drink and drive, but many choose to ignore and consciously take "all" of our lives at risk....I wonder if society or whoever wants to demonize guns why hasn't the same energy been placed on banning alcohol.....
I think what most people loose sight and it's easy to say, but the guns aren't the evil here.....The guns didn't fire by themselves.....People argue and contend to ban "large capacity magazines", but lets face it there is always an underground to get what you want if your willing to pay the price. How many legal gun owners actually go on shooting rampages.....A criminal or whack job will get a weapon regardless what restrictions you place on them if they are truly intent on committing the act.....
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504752
For some reason I decided to go back to the original post because we have spun out off direction. Why do we need street cars that can go over 100 MPH? The fastest LEGAL limit is 65 on an expressway. Why do we need a TV the size of a movie theater? Why do folks keep pit bulls? None of the things on my short list here are NEEDED, they are just wanted.
People are on some sort of ego trip maybe, and bigger, badder, faster makes them feel good???? Lots of folks can drink socially, and some folks are alcoholics. Many people have guns, and some are nuts or criminals. I like grass snakes, but some folks want a rattlesnake for a pet...I don't get it either, but why should a few nuts make it not allowed for others?
If banning all assault riffles would actually make a difference...I would jump on the band wagon...but it won't, so I don't. The media has a bunch of crap stirred up right now. I honestly think all they are doing is planting the idea in another nuts head to try the same thing or top it.
Just my opinion.
Not technically true on the speed limit.....Pit bulls are another I disagree with the analogy.....It's not the dogs themselves that are evil or wrong it's what some humans have done to demonize this breed....Heck you could even put Rottweilers in that group, but I could have left my 200lb Rotty with the smallest of child and she wouldn't have hurt a flea....You might not have gotten close to that child either, but we as society have demonized things that really aren't that "bad" as we are led to be believe and that's because of a few "bad eggs"......
I don't see a huge TV or a fast car as an ego trip.....I personally don't like TV, but with all the craziness why would I go to a theater and pay their outrageous prices for movie, popcorn and candy, when I can comfortably and safely sit in my own home and enjoy the same things I could in a movie theater....I don't see anything wrong with fast cars.....Again responsible individuals, and we can't "police" everything 100%; 100% of the time....I was a car nut and had no problem dumping money into fast cars, but also have paid the price of being foolish with those toys as well, but there's place for everything......
You hit the nail on the head IMHO Flower......WHY SHOULD A FEW NUTS ruin things for the rest.....It's almost like my old days in the military of mass punishment.....1 screws up we all suffer....We're all grown adults or hope to think that way, and should have a free choice to choose at will what will and won't do as long as we don't harm and infringe on others well being.....
I know we are talking about such a heinous crime that took place, but how much different is driving under the influence......Sure we all grieve over the loss of such innocent life, but how is this "crime" any different than what just recently took place....Everyday people are killed by reckless individuals. We all know that we shouldn't drink and drive, but many choose to ignore and consciously take "all" of our lives at risk....I wonder if society or whoever wants to demonize guns why hasn't the same energy been placed on banning alcohol.....
I think what most people loose sight and it's easy to say, but the guns aren't the evil here.....The guns didn't fire by themselves.....People argue and contend to ban "large capacity magazines", but lets face it there is always an underground to get what you want if your willing to pay the price. How many legal gun owners actually go on shooting rampages.....A criminal or whack job will get a weapon regardless what restrictions you place on them if they are truly intent on committing the act.....
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504730
I appreciated your clear and concise answer on the subject. It doesn't change the way I feel personally, but it does help me better understand why those like you who want to keep them think. Like I said earlier, I think it's a fine line between what you would trade for the value of a human life. The same can certainly be said for alcohol and drugs. Both are legal and both are abused, which cause death and destruction.
My entire stance on the issue, is that those in favor of something like an AR-15 have (in my PERSONAL opinion) very ticky-tack reasons for wanting to allow them to be legal on the streets. As someone who is an avid hunter, I get your point of view. I'm not well versed enough in weapons to know whether you could get by with something else or not. You seem to think not so much. I still feel like under most circumstances not involving wild boar, you could get by with something less deadly.
I guess I just still don't get why a woman who lives by herself with a kid with mental problems left a gun accessible. Maybe instead of blaming mental health issues, or gun control, we ought to take a good long look at how and where people store their weapons. I can tell you right now, I don't have children, so I will keep my gun in a simple lock box. However, if I had kids, or even kids in my home even semi regularly, to whom the best of my knowledge were sane, I would make sure I was the only one with access to that weapon.
ClemsonKid, you kinda answered your own question.......It's not the guns fault it was "poor judgement" in your opinion why a woman, who lives by herself with a kid with mental issues leave guns accessible......People making poor decisions and we want to readily blame the guns.
If your considering a weapon for personal carry because you make cash drops at night.....9mm used on a guy strung out and high.....he'll keep coming.....Personally I like my 10mm or 40 S&W.....The 40 is my favorite carry when out late.....And yes I do have kids in the house....21, 12 and 4yr old granddaughter and all except the smallest have been schooled as to the dangers these weapons will cause.....I think a lot has to do with how we raise our kids.....Some don't want to hear it, but the generation now a day has no respect and that has been lost over time, because "we" are soft.......
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504730
I appreciated your clear and concise answer on the subject. It doesn't change the way I feel personally, but it does help me better understand why those like you who want to keep them think. Like I said earlier, I think it's a fine line between what you would trade for the value of a human life. The same can certainly be said for alcohol and drugs. Both are legal and both are abused, which cause death and destruction.
My entire stance on the issue, is that those in favor of something like an AR-15 have (in my PERSONAL opinion) very ticky-tack reasons for wanting to allow them to be legal on the streets. As someone who is an avid hunter, I get your point of view. I'm not well versed enough in weapons to know whether you could get by with something else or not. You seem to think not so much. I still feel like under most circumstances not involving wild boar, you could get by with something less deadly.
I guess I just still don't get why a woman who lives by herself with a kid with mental problems left a gun accessible. Maybe instead of blaming mental health issues, or gun control, we ought to take a good long look at how and where people store their weapons. I can tell you right now, I don't have children, so I will keep my gun in a simple lock box. However, if I had kids, or even kids in my home even semi regularly, to whom the best of my knowledge were sane, I would make sure I was the only one with access to that weapon.
ClemsonKid, you kinda answered your own question.......It's not the guns fault it was "poor judgement" in your opinion why a woman, who lives by herself with a kid with mental issues leave guns accessible......People making poor decisions and we want to readily blame the guns.
If your considering a weapon for personal carry because you make cash drops at night.....9mm used on a guy strung out and high.....he'll keep coming.....Personally I like my 10mm or 40 S&W.....The 40 is my favorite carry when out late.....And yes I do have kids in the house....21, 12 and 4yr old granddaughter and all except the smallest have been schooled as to the dangers these weapons will cause.....I think a lot has to do with how we raise our kids.....Some don't want to hear it, but the generation now a day has no respect and that has been lost over time, because "we" are soft.......
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504798
Not technically true on the speed limit.....Pit bulls are another I disagree with the analogy.....It's not the dogs themselves that are evil or wrong it's what some humans have done to demonize this breed....Heck you could even put Rottweilers in that group, but I could have left my 200lb Rotty with the smallest of child and she wouldn't have hurt a flea....You might not have gotten close to that child either, but we as society have demonized things that really aren't that "bad" as we are led to be believe and that's because of a few "bad eggs"......
I don't see a huge TV or a fast car as an ego trip.....I personally don't like TV, but with all the craziness why would I go to a theater and pay their outrageous prices for movie, popcorn and candy, when I can comfortably and safely sit in my own home and enjoy the same things I could in a movie theater....I don't see anything wrong with fast cars.....Again responsible individuals, and we can't "police" everything 100%; 100% of the time....I was a car nut and had no problem dumping money into fast cars, but also have paid the price of being foolish with those toys as well, but there's place for everything......
You hit the nail on the head IMHO Flower......WHY SHOULD A FEW NUTS ruin things for the rest.....It's almost like my old days in the military of mass punishment.....1 screws up we all suffer....We're all grown adults or hope to think that way, and should have a free choice to choose at will what will and won't do as long as we don't harm and infringe on others well being.....
I know we are talking about such a heinous crime that took place, but how much different is driving under the influence......Sure we all grieve over the loss of such innocent life, but how is this "crime" any different than what just recently took place....Everyday people are killed by reckless individuals. We all know that we shouldn't drink and drive, but many choose to ignore and consciously take "all" of our lives at risk....I wonder if society or whoever wants to demonize guns why hasn't the same energy been placed on banning alcohol.....
I think what most people loose sight and it's easy to say, but the guns aren't the evil here.....The guns didn't fire by themselves.....People argue and contend to ban "large capacity magazines", but lets face it there is always an underground to get what you want if your willing to pay the price. How many legal gun owners actually go on shooting rampages.....A criminal or whack job will get a weapon regardless what restrictions you place on them if they are truly intent on committing the act.....
LOL...I have a 47 inch TV in a very small living room because that's the largest that will fit. I also have two very over protective German Shepherds. My grand kids can't even wrestle just playing around them. I only go to a theater if the movie is one of those bigger than life and cooler to watch on a huge screen kind of show, such as Jurassic park. I used the analogy I did to make a point. There isn't anything wrong with a pit bull...except... LOL, I think they are butt ugly. I don't care for the look of a little Yorkie either...beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Years ago I got a ticket for going 87 MPH down the highway. Maybe ego trip is the wrong words...My point was just that people like certain things different than what other folks might find offensive.
We can only be responsible for ourselves, our own behavior is all we have the power to change. There is no blanket cure for the evils of the world. Folks have even killed over religion, something designed to bring out the best in people. Anything in the hands of a nut becomes deadly. The disaster of 911 took place because the nuts had a little box cutter on an airplane. That was their weapon to subdue the people...Hindsight is always 20/20.
You can't bring a fingernail clipper on a plane anymore...they still high-jack planes. People had been high-jacking planes for many years before some nut decided to use one as a weapon of mass destruction. A few nuts do an awful lot of damage to others. The hope of taking automatic weapons away, is to slow down a nut if he goes off, the concept has merit. Unfortunatly the items to build a bomb is easy enough to get. If we take one weapon away, a nut will find another one to use that's just as deadly if not more. The problem isn't the weapon, it's the nut. So your last sentence says it all.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504798
Not technically true on the speed limit.....Pit bulls are another I disagree with the analogy.....It's not the dogs themselves that are evil or wrong it's what some humans have done to demonize this breed....Heck you could even put Rottweilers in that group, but I could have left my 200lb Rotty with the smallest of child and she wouldn't have hurt a flea....You might not have gotten close to that child either, but we as society have demonized things that really aren't that "bad" as we are led to be believe and that's because of a few "bad eggs"......
I don't see a huge TV or a fast car as an ego trip.....I personally don't like TV, but with all the craziness why would I go to a theater and pay their outrageous prices for movie, popcorn and candy, when I can comfortably and safely sit in my own home and enjoy the same things I could in a movie theater....I don't see anything wrong with fast cars.....Again responsible individuals, and we can't "police" everything 100%; 100% of the time....I was a car nut and had no problem dumping money into fast cars, but also have paid the price of being foolish with those toys as well, but there's place for everything......
You hit the nail on the head IMHO Flower......WHY SHOULD A FEW NUTS ruin things for the rest.....It's almost like my old days in the military of mass punishment.....1 screws up we all suffer....We're all grown adults or hope to think that way, and should have a free choice to choose at will what will and won't do as long as we don't harm and infringe on others well being.....
I know we are talking about such a heinous crime that took place, but how much different is driving under the influence......Sure we all grieve over the loss of such innocent life, but how is this "crime" any different than what just recently took place....Everyday people are killed by reckless individuals. We all know that we shouldn't drink and drive, but many choose to ignore and consciously take "all" of our lives at risk....I wonder if society or whoever wants to demonize guns why hasn't the same energy been placed on banning alcohol.....
I think what most people loose sight and it's easy to say, but the guns aren't the evil here.....The guns didn't fire by themselves.....People argue and contend to ban "large capacity magazines", but lets face it there is always an underground to get what you want if your willing to pay the price. How many legal gun owners actually go on shooting rampages.....A criminal or whack job will get a weapon regardless what restrictions you place on them if they are truly intent on committing the act.....
LOL...I have a 47 inch TV in a very small living room because that's the largest that will fit. I also have two very over protective German Shepherds. My grand kids can't even wrestle just playing around them. I only go to a theater if the movie is one of those bigger than life and cooler to watch on a huge screen kind of show, such as Jurassic park. I used the analogy I did to make a point. There isn't anything wrong with a pit bull...except... LOL, I think they are butt ugly. I don't care for the look of a little Yorkie either...beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Years ago I got a ticket for going 87 MPH down the highway. Maybe ego trip is the wrong words...My point was just that people like certain things different than what other folks might find offensive.
We can only be responsible for ourselves, our own behavior is all we have the power to change. There is no blanket cure for the evils of the world. Folks have even killed over religion, something designed to bring out the best in people. Anything in the hands of a nut becomes deadly. The disaster of 911 took place because the nuts had a little box cutter on an airplane. That was their weapon to subdue the people...Hindsight is always 20/20.
You can't bring a fingernail clipper on a plane anymore...they still high-jack planes. People had been high-jacking planes for many years before some nut decided to use one as a weapon of mass destruction. A few nuts do an awful lot of damage to others. The hope of taking automatic weapons away, is to slow down a nut if he goes off, the concept has merit. Unfortunatly the items to build a bomb is easy enough to get. If we take one weapon away, a nut will find another one to use that's just as deadly if not more. The problem isn't the weapon, it's the nut. So your last sentence says it all.
scsinet
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504730
I appreciated your clear and concise answer on the subject. It doesn't change the way I feel personally, but it does help me better understand why those like you who want to keep them think. Like I said earlier, I think it's a fine line between what you would trade for the value of a human life. The same can certainly be said for alcohol and drugs. Both are legal and both are abused, which cause death and destruction.
My entire stance on the issue, is that those in favor of something like an AR-15 have (in my PERSONAL opinion) very ticky-tack reasons for wanting to allow them to be legal on the streets. As someone who is an avid hunter, I get your point of view. I'm not well versed enough in weapons to know whether you could get by with something else or not. You seem to think not so much. I still feel like under most circumstances not involving wild boar, you could get by with something less deadly.
I guess I just still don't get why a woman who lives by herself with a kid with mental problems left a gun accessible. Maybe instead of blaming mental health issues, or gun control, we ought to take a good long look at how and where people store their weapons. I can tell you right now, I don't have children, so I will keep my gun in a simple lock box. However, if I had kids, or even kids in my home even semi regularly, to whom the best of my knowledge were sane, I would make sure I was the only one with access to that weapon.
At the risk of sounding like I am diminishing the gravity of the recent and other tragedy, it is worth reiterating that liberties and freedoms have value as well, that value is indescribably unique and great. The decision to forfeit those freedoms in the name of "safety" or "security" should not be taken lightly. In other words, simply because we do not see a reason for people owning the AR-15, we should not be too quick to dismiss their reasons or their rights to do so. Remember that in spite of all of this, the chances of a particular "assault weapon" being used in an atrocity like this is very, very low. That said, when they are involved, their involvement is usually major.
I'd also mention here that there is no information (that I know of) that suggests that this woman left her weapons accessible. We do not know whether this piece of human naval lint somehow forced his mother to open the safe before he killed her. We don't know that the guns were being accessed for legal uses before he shot her. We don't know that the guns were not just laying out around the house ready for him to grab and do what he did.
I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of laws that state that hold people accountable for what their weapons are used for when it is determined that they were stored in a negligent manner. If a gun is traced back to a person and it is discovered that they had their guns properly secured in a safe and that safe was forced open, fine. But if someone calls in and reports a burglary, and the cop gets a report of 10 guns missing and sees no safe in the house (or evidence that the entire safe was removed), then there should be some responsibility. Those are just my suggestions on the matter, but the point is that I would support reasonable laws that require responsible storage of weapons.
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin#post_3504730
I appreciated your clear and concise answer on the subject. It doesn't change the way I feel personally, but it does help me better understand why those like you who want to keep them think. Like I said earlier, I think it's a fine line between what you would trade for the value of a human life. The same can certainly be said for alcohol and drugs. Both are legal and both are abused, which cause death and destruction.
My entire stance on the issue, is that those in favor of something like an AR-15 have (in my PERSONAL opinion) very ticky-tack reasons for wanting to allow them to be legal on the streets. As someone who is an avid hunter, I get your point of view. I'm not well versed enough in weapons to know whether you could get by with something else or not. You seem to think not so much. I still feel like under most circumstances not involving wild boar, you could get by with something less deadly.
I guess I just still don't get why a woman who lives by herself with a kid with mental problems left a gun accessible. Maybe instead of blaming mental health issues, or gun control, we ought to take a good long look at how and where people store their weapons. I can tell you right now, I don't have children, so I will keep my gun in a simple lock box. However, if I had kids, or even kids in my home even semi regularly, to whom the best of my knowledge were sane, I would make sure I was the only one with access to that weapon.
At the risk of sounding like I am diminishing the gravity of the recent and other tragedy, it is worth reiterating that liberties and freedoms have value as well, that value is indescribably unique and great. The decision to forfeit those freedoms in the name of "safety" or "security" should not be taken lightly. In other words, simply because we do not see a reason for people owning the AR-15, we should not be too quick to dismiss their reasons or their rights to do so. Remember that in spite of all of this, the chances of a particular "assault weapon" being used in an atrocity like this is very, very low. That said, when they are involved, their involvement is usually major.
I'd also mention here that there is no information (that I know of) that suggests that this woman left her weapons accessible. We do not know whether this piece of human naval lint somehow forced his mother to open the safe before he killed her. We don't know that the guns were being accessed for legal uses before he shot her. We don't know that the guns were not just laying out around the house ready for him to grab and do what he did.
I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of laws that state that hold people accountable for what their weapons are used for when it is determined that they were stored in a negligent manner. If a gun is traced back to a person and it is discovered that they had their guns properly secured in a safe and that safe was forced open, fine. But if someone calls in and reports a burglary, and the cop gets a report of 10 guns missing and sees no safe in the house (or evidence that the entire safe was removed), then there should be some responsibility. Those are just my suggestions on the matter, but the point is that I would support reasonable laws that require responsible storage of weapons.
mantisman51
Active Member
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls
Please respond to this Clemson. That's a real-life, official FBI crime statistic website. 12996 people killed with firearms, less than half of those killed by cars, and only 358 killed by ALL rifles-not just so-called "assault rifles". Do the math: .27%, just over 1/4 of 1% are committed with ALL rifles-most are hunting rifles and this includes murder-suicides. What happened is a tragedy. It is not even close to a trend. I do not own an AR15, but support those that do. You want to talk callous and coldly, immorally political? How about Adolph Feinstein submitting a bill to ban 100 types of firearms and all accessories, capitalizing on the bodies of children to advance her ultra-leftist agenda in front of a microphone less than 2 hours after the killing and before their bodies were cold? Our right to bear arms is not just to form a militia, as the Supreme Court ruled 2 or 3 years ago, it is our Creator-given right as much as free speech and and the right to remain silent and the prevention of illegal search and seizure. It is just as much to give WE THE PEOPLE the ultimate authority in this nation. Not lord and savior Obama, not Sweaty Reid, not Queen Nancy and not Adolph Feinstein. They HATE that we the people now have the ability to stop any tyrant or attempted "president for life"-100 million gun owners can stop anybody and anything. These proposed gun bans are nothing more than politicians seeking to force their will on WE THE PEOPLE and have us unable to stop them. To everyone not brainwashed by these power-hungry animals: buy your "assault rifles" now and buy as many as you can. Then buy as many 30 round magazines and ammo as you can. Then find a place where jack-booted ATF thugs(the same guys who have armed the cartels while trying to take your firearms) cannot find them. I believe a firmly as I've ever felt anything in my life, this is our Dear Leader's burning of the Reichstag moment. From here on he and his leftist followers start the process of disarming Americans and setting him up as President for Life. Laugh now lefties. So did far too many in Germany, Russia and China. What's really sad is how many of you leftists get a thrill at that thought.
Please respond to this Clemson. That's a real-life, official FBI crime statistic website. 12996 people killed with firearms, less than half of those killed by cars, and only 358 killed by ALL rifles-not just so-called "assault rifles". Do the math: .27%, just over 1/4 of 1% are committed with ALL rifles-most are hunting rifles and this includes murder-suicides. What happened is a tragedy. It is not even close to a trend. I do not own an AR15, but support those that do. You want to talk callous and coldly, immorally political? How about Adolph Feinstein submitting a bill to ban 100 types of firearms and all accessories, capitalizing on the bodies of children to advance her ultra-leftist agenda in front of a microphone less than 2 hours after the killing and before their bodies were cold? Our right to bear arms is not just to form a militia, as the Supreme Court ruled 2 or 3 years ago, it is our Creator-given right as much as free speech and and the right to remain silent and the prevention of illegal search and seizure. It is just as much to give WE THE PEOPLE the ultimate authority in this nation. Not lord and savior Obama, not Sweaty Reid, not Queen Nancy and not Adolph Feinstein. They HATE that we the people now have the ability to stop any tyrant or attempted "president for life"-100 million gun owners can stop anybody and anything. These proposed gun bans are nothing more than politicians seeking to force their will on WE THE PEOPLE and have us unable to stop them. To everyone not brainwashed by these power-hungry animals: buy your "assault rifles" now and buy as many as you can. Then buy as many 30 round magazines and ammo as you can. Then find a place where jack-booted ATF thugs(the same guys who have armed the cartels while trying to take your firearms) cannot find them. I believe a firmly as I've ever felt anything in my life, this is our Dear Leader's burning of the Reichstag moment. From here on he and his leftist followers start the process of disarming Americans and setting him up as President for Life. Laugh now lefties. So did far too many in Germany, Russia and China. What's really sad is how many of you leftists get a thrill at that thought.
theclemsonkid
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSInet http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504821
At the risk of sounding like I am diminishing the gravity of the recent and other tragedy, it is worth reiterating that liberties and freedoms have value as well, that value is indescribably unique and great. The decision to forfeit those freedoms in the name of "safety" or "security" should not be taken lightly. In other words, simply because we do not see a reason for people owning the AR-15, we should not be too quick to dismiss their reasons or their rights to do so. Remember that in spite of all of this, the chances of a particular "assault weapon" being used in an atrocity like this is very, very low. That said, when they are involved, their involvement is usually major.
I'd also mention here that there is no information (that I know of) that suggests that this woman left her weapons accessible. We do not know whether this piece of human naval lint somehow forced his mother to open the safe before he killed her. We don't know that the guns were being accessed for legal uses before he shot her. We don't know that the guns were not just laying out around the house ready for him to grab and do what he did.
I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of laws that state that hold people accountable for what their weapons are used for when it is determined that they were stored in a negligent manner. If a gun is traced back to a person and it is discovered that they had their guns properly secured in a safe and that safe was forced open, fine. But if someone calls in and reports a burglary, and the cop gets a report of 10 guns missing and sees no safe in the house (or evidence that the entire safe was removed), then there should be some responsibility. Those are just my suggestions on the matter, but the point is that I would support reasonable laws that require responsible storage of weapons.
I think we certainly agree there. Unfortunately I don't know if the public will ever hear how exactly he got a hold of the weapons used. I'd like to think if I had a child who was mentally questionable at best, I would have those weapons under Fort Knox like security. As in locked in a safe that only I knew how to access. It sounds like she was an avid and active gun collector, so she may have been a little more lax with the security because perhaps she felt like her kids knew the guns, and how dangerous they were.
Even if he tried to forcefully coerce her, should she have allowed that? I mean obviously worse case scenario, he kills her. But is that worth it, considering what she could have saved from happening? It's really, really hard to speculate.
Originally Posted by SCSInet http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504821
At the risk of sounding like I am diminishing the gravity of the recent and other tragedy, it is worth reiterating that liberties and freedoms have value as well, that value is indescribably unique and great. The decision to forfeit those freedoms in the name of "safety" or "security" should not be taken lightly. In other words, simply because we do not see a reason for people owning the AR-15, we should not be too quick to dismiss their reasons or their rights to do so. Remember that in spite of all of this, the chances of a particular "assault weapon" being used in an atrocity like this is very, very low. That said, when they are involved, their involvement is usually major.
I'd also mention here that there is no information (that I know of) that suggests that this woman left her weapons accessible. We do not know whether this piece of human naval lint somehow forced his mother to open the safe before he killed her. We don't know that the guns were being accessed for legal uses before he shot her. We don't know that the guns were not just laying out around the house ready for him to grab and do what he did.
I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of laws that state that hold people accountable for what their weapons are used for when it is determined that they were stored in a negligent manner. If a gun is traced back to a person and it is discovered that they had their guns properly secured in a safe and that safe was forced open, fine. But if someone calls in and reports a burglary, and the cop gets a report of 10 guns missing and sees no safe in the house (or evidence that the entire safe was removed), then there should be some responsibility. Those are just my suggestions on the matter, but the point is that I would support reasonable laws that require responsible storage of weapons.
I think we certainly agree there. Unfortunately I don't know if the public will ever hear how exactly he got a hold of the weapons used. I'd like to think if I had a child who was mentally questionable at best, I would have those weapons under Fort Knox like security. As in locked in a safe that only I knew how to access. It sounds like she was an avid and active gun collector, so she may have been a little more lax with the security because perhaps she felt like her kids knew the guns, and how dangerous they were.
Even if he tried to forcefully coerce her, should she have allowed that? I mean obviously worse case scenario, he kills her. But is that worth it, considering what she could have saved from happening? It's really, really hard to speculate.
theclemsonkid
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504837
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls
Please respond to this Clemson. That's a real-life, official FBI crime statistic website. 12996 people killed with firearms, less than half of those killed by cars, and only 358 killed by ALL rifles-not just so-called "assault rifles". Do the math: .27%, just over 1/4 of 1% are committed with ALL rifles-most are hunting rifles and this includes murder-suicides. What happened is a tragedy. It is not even close to a trend. I do not own an AR15, but support those that do. You want to talk callous and coldly, immorally political? How about Adolph Feinstein submitting a bill to ban 100 types of firearms and all accessories, capitalizing on the bodies of children to advance her ultra-leftist agenda in front of a microphone less than 2 hours after the killing and before their bodies were cold? Our right to bear arms is not just to form a militia, as the Supreme Court ruled 2 or 3 years ago, it is our Creator-given right as much as free speech and and the right to remain silent and the prevention of illegal search and seizure. It is just as much to give WE THE PEOPLE the ultimate authority in this nation. Not lord and savior Obama, not Sweaty Reid, not Queen Nancy and not Adolph Feinstein. They HATE that we the people now have the ability to stop any tyrant or attempted "president for life"-100 million gun owners can stop anybody and anything. These proposed gun bans are nothing more than politicians seeking to force their will on WE THE PEOPLE and have us unable to stop them. To everyone not brainwashed by these power-hungry animals: buy your "assault rifles" now and buy as many as you can. Then buy as many 30 round magazines and ammo as you can. Then find a place where jack-booted ATF thugs(the same guys who have armed the cartels while trying to take your firearms) cannot find them. I believe a firmly as I've ever felt anything in my life, this is our Dear Leader's burning of the Reichstag moment. From here on he and his leftist followers start the process of disarming Americans and setting him up as President for Life. Laugh now lefties. So did far too many in Germany, Russia and China. What's really sad is how many of you leftists get a thrill at that thought.
Look Mantis, I appreciate a lot of what you post. For the most part, you use logical reasoning, and make valid points whether I agree with them or not. I appreciate that. However, you have an incredibly, and I mean INCREDIBLY warped perception of "the left". First off, you say it's really sad that us leftists get a thrill out of the thought of your perceive as a "president for life". I'm left leaning, a lot of my friends and business colleagues are as well, and I don't know a single one of them who thinks like this. Not one. Do you really, in your wildest dreams, think the United States of America, in 2012, could ever allow that to happen? I know you have your Germany, Russia, and China comparisons... but it's not the mid 1900's. Today's world is nothing like that which allowed those situations to arise. If you want to load up on your weapons and bury yourself in the desert for this fantasy world you see coming, you are more than welcome to. That's the great part about America. You have that freedom.
Did it ever once occur to you that maybe they want to ban assault rifles because, oh I don't know, there have been several shootings that have killed children with those rifles? I'm not sure why you think there are all these underlying motives for everything. And for the record, there was already a federal assault rifle ban in this country. The same ban that you seem to think is the beginning of the end for your personal rights. What happened then? Did they start with that ban and then come after everything else? What's that you say? No, they didn't?
And lastly, let's be realistic here. The only way (and I never see this happening, but if it did) the United States Government could turn on it's own people is with the power of the military. The military, which is made up OF THE PEOPLE. I know countless, countless people in all armed services and law enforcement, and I would bet anything that not a single one of them would turn on their own countrymen. Do you really believe, your friends and neighbors are going to take orders to end your life with force?
And in theory, let's say the government did some insane takeover of the country. Then what? Genocide? Murder? What's the end game there? Personal wealth and power for the leaders? The leaders in this country already have power and wealth. What would their motive be? I can't even begin to see why or how this fantasy of yours would ever take place. So please, if you would, enlighten me!
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504837
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls
Please respond to this Clemson. That's a real-life, official FBI crime statistic website. 12996 people killed with firearms, less than half of those killed by cars, and only 358 killed by ALL rifles-not just so-called "assault rifles". Do the math: .27%, just over 1/4 of 1% are committed with ALL rifles-most are hunting rifles and this includes murder-suicides. What happened is a tragedy. It is not even close to a trend. I do not own an AR15, but support those that do. You want to talk callous and coldly, immorally political? How about Adolph Feinstein submitting a bill to ban 100 types of firearms and all accessories, capitalizing on the bodies of children to advance her ultra-leftist agenda in front of a microphone less than 2 hours after the killing and before their bodies were cold? Our right to bear arms is not just to form a militia, as the Supreme Court ruled 2 or 3 years ago, it is our Creator-given right as much as free speech and and the right to remain silent and the prevention of illegal search and seizure. It is just as much to give WE THE PEOPLE the ultimate authority in this nation. Not lord and savior Obama, not Sweaty Reid, not Queen Nancy and not Adolph Feinstein. They HATE that we the people now have the ability to stop any tyrant or attempted "president for life"-100 million gun owners can stop anybody and anything. These proposed gun bans are nothing more than politicians seeking to force their will on WE THE PEOPLE and have us unable to stop them. To everyone not brainwashed by these power-hungry animals: buy your "assault rifles" now and buy as many as you can. Then buy as many 30 round magazines and ammo as you can. Then find a place where jack-booted ATF thugs(the same guys who have armed the cartels while trying to take your firearms) cannot find them. I believe a firmly as I've ever felt anything in my life, this is our Dear Leader's burning of the Reichstag moment. From here on he and his leftist followers start the process of disarming Americans and setting him up as President for Life. Laugh now lefties. So did far too many in Germany, Russia and China. What's really sad is how many of you leftists get a thrill at that thought.
Look Mantis, I appreciate a lot of what you post. For the most part, you use logical reasoning, and make valid points whether I agree with them or not. I appreciate that. However, you have an incredibly, and I mean INCREDIBLY warped perception of "the left". First off, you say it's really sad that us leftists get a thrill out of the thought of your perceive as a "president for life". I'm left leaning, a lot of my friends and business colleagues are as well, and I don't know a single one of them who thinks like this. Not one. Do you really, in your wildest dreams, think the United States of America, in 2012, could ever allow that to happen? I know you have your Germany, Russia, and China comparisons... but it's not the mid 1900's. Today's world is nothing like that which allowed those situations to arise. If you want to load up on your weapons and bury yourself in the desert for this fantasy world you see coming, you are more than welcome to. That's the great part about America. You have that freedom.
Did it ever once occur to you that maybe they want to ban assault rifles because, oh I don't know, there have been several shootings that have killed children with those rifles? I'm not sure why you think there are all these underlying motives for everything. And for the record, there was already a federal assault rifle ban in this country. The same ban that you seem to think is the beginning of the end for your personal rights. What happened then? Did they start with that ban and then come after everything else? What's that you say? No, they didn't?
And lastly, let's be realistic here. The only way (and I never see this happening, but if it did) the United States Government could turn on it's own people is with the power of the military. The military, which is made up OF THE PEOPLE. I know countless, countless people in all armed services and law enforcement, and I would bet anything that not a single one of them would turn on their own countrymen. Do you really believe, your friends and neighbors are going to take orders to end your life with force?
And in theory, let's say the government did some insane takeover of the country. Then what? Genocide? Murder? What's the end game there? Personal wealth and power for the leaders? The leaders in this country already have power and wealth. What would their motive be? I can't even begin to see why or how this fantasy of yours would ever take place. So please, if you would, enlighten me!
2quills
Well-Known Member
I think it's important to understand that even though people are calling this an assault weapon technically its not. It's a semi-automatic variant of a real assault weapon. Mechanically speaking it functions no differently than every other semi-automatic weapon out there. That's why these things are legal to purchase in some states in the first place. True fully automatic assault riffles are already illegal to posses. Yes they can hold more bullets in larger magazines but to me it makes very little difference when someone who can already shoot can simply carry more pre-loaded clips in their belt for any other type of semi-auto pistol or riffle. A good shooter can change out clips or mags in the blink of an eye. It's hardly much time for someone whos hiding in a closet or under a desk to get the jump on a shooter. Especially when they're probably scared our of thier witts as it is. It's nothing personal, I just dont feel that banning this particular weapon means much unless you go after all guns. And most politicians wouldnt toucj that with a 10ft pole. They'll probably restrict magazine sizes to make it seem like they are at least trying to minimize future innocent casualties.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I tried asking this in the other thread, but it kept getting deflected and changed. So, I will ask in standard testing format here, hoping to get a response or two, because I genuinely want to know. Not because I think I'm right and you're wrong, but because I honestly want to know the justification in your head.
1. While I fully support the right to defend your home with a 9mm, shotgun, and other small capacity weapons, I feel like a semi-automatic assault rifle serves no purpose other than carnage. You, as the owner of an assault rifle, purchased that weapon because it offers what advantages, which a 9mm or shotgun does not?
2. If you are into game hunting, does an assault rifle offer you something that a standard low capacity rifle, or shotgun style weapon does not? If so, what does it offer?
3. Do you think that going out to shoot game with laws saying you can't have big magazines and semi-automatic rifles would be worth even the possibility that just one life would be saved? Or do you feel it's the status quo, and people will die anyways, why should my hunting be affected?
4. Lastly, I know a lot of NRA'ers are scared that "it's a slippery slope" when it comes to this. You start with assault rifles, but where does it stop? Before you know it, they outlaw all guns, and it's just the criminals, nutjobs, and government who have weapons while law abiding citizens will ultimately be the ones who get screwed. Is this a genuine concern? And also, do you believe that one day, you may actually need an assault rifle to fend off the government, or government troops, and that the second amendment gives you that right?
Ok, I will answer. I will answer from the AR platform which I own. I own one AR. Technically speaking the firing mechanism of the AR is called a Lower receiver. While I only own one lower receiver, I own three different uppers. The calibers are as follows, .22lr, .223/5.56, and a 50 beowulf upper.In less than 30 seconds I can swap between any ofthese calibers by just switching the barrel (upper reciever). With one gun I can huntany game I want for the most part. From a home defense standpoint I leave it chambered in the 5.56. Frome a target shooting and "fun" aspect i use the .22 upper considerably more. Hunting I use the beowulf upper. i may not get the distance of some the other calibers out there, but then again, at 150 yds I can drop just about any big game...Most of my hunt shots are under 150yds.
As for the magazines, if those were to be banned, I wouldn't lose sleep at night. I own several 30 and 20 round magazines. I only use them when target shooting (pain in the butt to reload them each time) But I do use 5 and ten rounders when hunting.
I remember someone commenting on the shotgun not being as deadly due to its shell capacity and taking over 2 minutes to reload...I hate to burst bubbles here, but I can reload a 5 shell shotgun in about 15 seconds max done it 7 seconds myself. cocked and ready to fire again in a total of 10 seconds. There are also shotguns on the market with 15 shell capacities now as well as semi auto-shotguns......
Touching on the "need" aspect to degree....all empires crumble and governments fall. History has never had a single government entity survive the test of time. When these governments fall or empires, what has happened the population in many case......There are several monetary issues within our government at the moment that appear to be only going to get worse....Will it crumble in y lifetime? probably not...but just in case.....We have various forms of insurance, this is just another form of insurance......One I hope, like all the others, I will never need to use.
1. While I fully support the right to defend your home with a 9mm, shotgun, and other small capacity weapons, I feel like a semi-automatic assault rifle serves no purpose other than carnage. You, as the owner of an assault rifle, purchased that weapon because it offers what advantages, which a 9mm or shotgun does not?
2. If you are into game hunting, does an assault rifle offer you something that a standard low capacity rifle, or shotgun style weapon does not? If so, what does it offer?
3. Do you think that going out to shoot game with laws saying you can't have big magazines and semi-automatic rifles would be worth even the possibility that just one life would be saved? Or do you feel it's the status quo, and people will die anyways, why should my hunting be affected?
4. Lastly, I know a lot of NRA'ers are scared that "it's a slippery slope" when it comes to this. You start with assault rifles, but where does it stop? Before you know it, they outlaw all guns, and it's just the criminals, nutjobs, and government who have weapons while law abiding citizens will ultimately be the ones who get screwed. Is this a genuine concern? And also, do you believe that one day, you may actually need an assault rifle to fend off the government, or government troops, and that the second amendment gives you that right?
Ok, I will answer. I will answer from the AR platform which I own. I own one AR. Technically speaking the firing mechanism of the AR is called a Lower receiver. While I only own one lower receiver, I own three different uppers. The calibers are as follows, .22lr, .223/5.56, and a 50 beowulf upper.In less than 30 seconds I can swap between any ofthese calibers by just switching the barrel (upper reciever). With one gun I can huntany game I want for the most part. From a home defense standpoint I leave it chambered in the 5.56. Frome a target shooting and "fun" aspect i use the .22 upper considerably more. Hunting I use the beowulf upper. i may not get the distance of some the other calibers out there, but then again, at 150 yds I can drop just about any big game...Most of my hunt shots are under 150yds.
As for the magazines, if those were to be banned, I wouldn't lose sleep at night. I own several 30 and 20 round magazines. I only use them when target shooting (pain in the butt to reload them each time) But I do use 5 and ten rounders when hunting.
I remember someone commenting on the shotgun not being as deadly due to its shell capacity and taking over 2 minutes to reload...I hate to burst bubbles here, but I can reload a 5 shell shotgun in about 15 seconds max done it 7 seconds myself. cocked and ready to fire again in a total of 10 seconds. There are also shotguns on the market with 15 shell capacities now as well as semi auto-shotguns......
Touching on the "need" aspect to degree....all empires crumble and governments fall. History has never had a single government entity survive the test of time. When these governments fall or empires, what has happened the population in many case......There are several monetary issues within our government at the moment that appear to be only going to get worse....Will it crumble in y lifetime? probably not...but just in case.....We have various forms of insurance, this is just another form of insurance......One I hope, like all the others, I will never need to use.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I like it...It didn't kick as hard as I thought it would. Probably just under what shooting a slug out of a short barreled 12 guage would be. It has better accuracy than the 12 guage slug though and travels a bit hirer speed. I used to get 25 rounds for just about 24 bucks....cant find that anymore, but still, ammunition is reasonable. Especially if I compare it to some of the shot slugs out now or higher caliber hunting rounds. like i said, i wont be taking any 1000 yard shots with it, but overall I am happy. Especially since I can carry all "three" rifles in one bag.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504847
I like it...It didn't kick as hard as I thought it would. Probably just under what shooting a slug out of a short barreled 12 guage would be. It has better accuracy than the 12 guage slug though and travels a bit hirer speed. I used to get 25 rounds for just about 24 bucks....cant find that anymore, but still, ammunition is reasonable. Especially if I compare it to some of the shot slugs out now or higher caliber hunting rounds. like i said, i wont be taking any 1000 yard shots with it, but overall I am happy. Especially since I can carry all "three" rifles in one bag.
Yeah. Been thinking about that or a 308 receiver but now I am going to hold off and see how far the libs get with the ban nonsense. I will never register any gun I own so if they have to votes to ban I will sell it and get something else. I am going to go ahead and get some extended mags for the Witness and the Glock. Just realized I own a Ruger P39 now too. Forgot about that. I am sure they have some 30 round clips for those too.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393813/can-just-one-supporter-of-the-ar-15-please-annswer-a-simple-few-questions-with-no-spin/20#post_3504847
I like it...It didn't kick as hard as I thought it would. Probably just under what shooting a slug out of a short barreled 12 guage would be. It has better accuracy than the 12 guage slug though and travels a bit hirer speed. I used to get 25 rounds for just about 24 bucks....cant find that anymore, but still, ammunition is reasonable. Especially if I compare it to some of the shot slugs out now or higher caliber hunting rounds. like i said, i wont be taking any 1000 yard shots with it, but overall I am happy. Especially since I can carry all "three" rifles in one bag.
Yeah. Been thinking about that or a 308 receiver but now I am going to hold off and see how far the libs get with the ban nonsense. I will never register any gun I own so if they have to votes to ban I will sell it and get something else. I am going to go ahead and get some extended mags for the Witness and the Glock. Just realized I own a Ruger P39 now too. Forgot about that. I am sure they have some 30 round clips for those too.