Can this be right?

[jpc763]

I have a 55g tank with a 10g refugium, 14 times flow, protein skimmer and t5 lighting. In addition to that, I have:
60lbs of live sand that was in the established tank with previous owner. It was kept in 2-3" of water for a couple of days before I moved it.
25lbs of live rock (not very live really) that was in an established tank before taking the drive to my tank.
50lbs of live rock that was ordered "fully cured" from CA. I scrubbed it and washed it prior to putting it in the tank 5 days ago.
5 snails that came out of the 60lbs of live sand.
I began my cycle 10 days ago with the 60lbs of sand and 25lbs of rock. I started getting ammonia readings the first day I tested it. 0.50 ppm. It went up to 1.0 ppm over the next several days. At 1.0ppm, I did a 16 gallon water change 2 days ago. Ammonia read 0.50 ppm after the water change. Today, ammonia read 0.0 ppm. While reading the ammonia, I checked Nitrite level. Always 0 (including today). Today I measured Nitrate (which had always also read 0) and the reading came in between 5 and 10ppm.
So based on what I read, when your Ammonia spikes and goes to 0, your Nitrite should get a reading and Nitrate could show a false positive.
Is it possible to skip a Nitrite spike and go on to Nitrate?
I am confused!

 

[rykna]

Hi,
Welcome to the board.
Here's a water chart. Can you tell me how long you have been cycling your tank since you got it set up in your home? It's likely you'll experience another smaller spike.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by jpc763
I have a 55g tank with a 10g refugium, 14 times flow, protein skimmer and t5 lighting. In addition to that, I have:
60lbs of live sand that was in the established tank with previous owner. It was kept in 2-3" of water for a couple of days before I moved it.
How long did it sit?
25lbs of live rock (not very live really) that was in an established tank before taking the drive to my tank.
How longs did the rock sit?
50lbs of live rock that was ordered "fully cured" from CA. I scrubbed it and washed it prior to putting it in the tank 5 days ago.
What did you wash it with?
5 snails that came out of the 60lbs of live sand.
Definately ne mopre snails 25 plus
I began my cycle 10 days ago with the 60lbs of sand and 25lbs of rock. I started getting ammonia readings the first day I tested it. 0.50 ppm. It went up to 1.0 ppm over the next several days. At 1.0ppm, I did a 16 gallon water change 2 days ago. Ammonia read 0.50 ppm after the water change. Today, ammonia read 0.0 ppm. While reading the ammonia, I checked Nitrite level. Always 0 (including today). Today I measured Nitrate (which had always also read 0) and the reading came in between 5 and 10ppm.
So based on what I read, when your Ammonia spikes and goes to 0, your Nitrite should get a reading and Nitrate could show a false positive.
Is it possible to skip a Nitrite spike and go on to Nitrate?
I am confused!

It is hard to catch each change. I have had fish since i was 7, I'm 32 now. Never witnessed the whole cycle process...one day it wasn't next day it was.
The important part, IMHO, is to wait for you cocepod and amphiopod population to grow.
Depending on how much live rock you have it take between 2-3 months to start seeing the tiny little clean up crew crawling around.

 

[jpc763]

Rykna, thanks
To answer some of your questions...
The sand sat in 2 inches of water for 4 days.
The rock was pulled out of an aquarium and put into a tupperware with saltwater and a powerhead. It was then partially drained and driven an hour or so to my house.
The live rock was scrubbed with a clean brush and 78 degree saltwater. It was then put into the DT.
Timeline...
Sun July 8 - Tank taken down by previous owner. Sand left in 2" water.
Wed July 11 - Sand removed into 5g bucket with water. Tank moved to my house.
Thu July 12 - Tank cleaned, 25lbs rock arrives in tupperware and 5-6" saltwater. Tank filled up with saltwater and rock installed.
Fri July 13 - First ammonia reading taken - 0.50 ppm; Nitrite 15ppm; Nitrate 0ppm
Tue July 17 - 50lbs live rock shipped from CA arrives. Scrubed with saltwater and installed in tank.
Wed July 18 - Ammonia reading 0.75 ppm; Nitrite 0ppm
Thu July 19 - Ammonia reading 1.0 ppm; Nitrite 0ppm
Fri July 20 - 16g water change - ammonia reading 0.50 ppm; Nitrite 0ppm
Sun July 22 - ammonia reading 0.0 ppm; Nitrite 0ppm; Nitrate 10ppm
So that is what has happened.
J

 

[rykna]

So far sounds good. If it was my tank I'd check the tank levels daily and do a 10% water change when any of theses 3 exceed ammonia 0 ppm, nitrates 5ppm, or nitrites 5ppm. With my first salt water tank I never had a spike...I cycled it for a month before adding some fish and inverts. I think I got lucky due to the amount of live rock I purchased. LR comes with all sorts of "clean up crew" critters. The more the merrier, and the quicker your tank cycles.
After your tank water levels become stable. I felt 4 days of no change was good for me. Then I purchased a few critters. Start small...2-3 easy fish...clowns-gobies-..couple of shrimp to clean up left overs. Don't go crazy on your first purchase. Adding to many fish right away will overwhelm your newly cycled tank...the clean up crew is still in it's infancy.
After adding the new tank occupants. Start taking water checks every other day or so. You'll probably want to do a 20% water change when cleaning time rolls around.
I purchased my second round of tank mates a month after introducing the first batch. This time I got some easy coral, like button polyps or zoos and xenia. Once these guys take off you're on your way to a well balanced tank.
Just keep a eye on the levels when you add new purchases. If the levels don't go down add some more clean up critters- snails, hermit crabs, etc.
The other thing that I forgot and caused me worry~ after 3-4 of my tank doing fine things started slipping...I had completely forgotten about rinsing the sponge filter in my canister filter.

The other thing to do when in doubt...add black carbon...it's like a sedative, stress relief, and clears out waste quickly, and gives you more time to mix up some new salt water.
I'd love to see pics of your new tank

 

[huskychasrs]

I cycled my 47Gal in 12days with 50 lbs of lr and ghost feeding and 1 water change when the ammonia peaked. It can happen quick but, I tested water params every day. Once it was done I let it go for another week prior to adding livestock.

 

[fishn808]

Originally Posted by jpc763
I am confused!

I am too...I thought doing a water change BEFORE ammonia and nitrites are at zero could potentially cause another cycle or lengthen the current cycle.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by fishn808
I am too...I thought doing a water change BEFORE ammonia and nitrites are at zero could potentially cause another cycle or lengthen the current cycle.
Nooooooooooope.
This is one of the most common misconceptions to cycling. Ammonia at levels near 1ppm becomes toxic to everything, including beneficial bacteria. Water changes are definitely needed.
As long as there is some ammonia the cycle will progress as normal. No reason whatsoever to have high ammonia.
Jpc, you're not going to have a traditional cycle. You've added things at different times and that's gonna confuse it. Continue to test, ghost feed as ammonia becomes zero, and be patient.

 

[jpc763]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Jpc, you're not going to have a traditional cycle. You've added things at different times and that's gonna confuse it. Continue to test, ghost feed as ammonia becomes zero, and be patient.
OK, Ghost feading starts tonight! Daily testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate continues.
I also have NO PLANS to add any critters for at least 2 weeks (assuming I get great readings for 2 weeks), probably more! I want to have a nice stable tank before introducing anything (other then the 6 snails that have tagged along

After the tank is stable, I plan to add 2 clowns, a cleaner shrimp and some hermits. I will move the 4 snails from the refugium back up to the DT (if I can find them, they burried themselves). I also plan on getting some Chaeto for my refugium to allow pods to grow unmolested.
Thanks all for the great info!
J

 

[jpc763]

Originally Posted by Rykna
I'd love to see pics of your new tank

I will take some pics in the next day or two. I want to arrange the rocks first! They are ok, but just sort of placed in there with the intent of re-arranging them later.
Now, my sponges. I have 2 sponges and one filter pad. The filter pad is a change out type. The sponges probably need to be cleaned. How often?
As said before, thanks for the info!
J

 

[renogaw]

sounds like you're coming along nicely, and i agree you may have cycled and not known it, although no nitrates showing up is a little odd. doesn't hurt to throw a shrimp in there and see if the bacteria can handle the decomposition without spiking as well as ghostfeeding.
as for sponges, do you mean your prefilters? if you don't clean them out they can become nitrate factories. I clean my prefilter sponge on my intake to the overflow whenever i hear it start gurgling (that means less water is getting in there) and i clean the prefilter on the return pump whenever i see it getting dirty. also, i will clean them every 2 weeks during my maintenance, even if it's only been a few days. just make sure there arent any pods you can see on the filters before cleaning them out--if there are take them off and put in your tank or fuge

 

[saltn00b]

sounds like to me that you basically moved two established tanks into one 'new' tank and added some already cured rock. assuming the rock was truly cured, you could easily get away with almost zero cycling. I have done similar actions when i moved my existing 75 into a 150 and added LR. i had no cycle.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by jpc763
I will take some pics in the next day or two. I want to arrange the rocks first! They are ok, but just sort of placed in there with the intent of re-arranging them later.
Now, my sponges. I have 2 sponges and one filter pad. The filter pad is a change out type. The sponges probably need to be cleaned. How often?
As said before, thanks for the info!
J
I rinse mine out every 3 months once the tank gets settled, but for now I rinse one of the sponges twice a month, and leave the second one to build up the cleaning crew. I change my filter pads once a month

 

[jpc763]

Well something has got to be different, because I now have algea!

All over the place! Not too widespread, but small brown patches all over the tank and all over 1 particular rock. There are silver bubbles on the rock as well. What are those.
Pics attached
So do I need to rush out and get some hermit crabs?
Will my 5 snails do the job?
Should I do a water change?
Should I stop the lights?
Thanks again!

 

[rykna]

IMHO you can almost never have enough snails. The red slime algae is actually a great sign!!! It's the first step towards a mature salt tank. Keep up with the 10% water changes, what type of lighting are you using?
The next step after the red slime is maiden hair algae, after that stage things really take off.You need to make sure you have proper lighting. The desirable macro algae thrives under high lighting. The red slime junk prefers low light and water high in waster to feed on. So having a big clean up crew is a big part of getting ahead of the red slime...guessing at what stage of maturing your tank is in, and looking at you LR and LS you should be out of the red slime in a week-week and a half. I like my sand tiger star...they're great for vacuming the sand bed, just make sure to offer them some type of shrimp pellets at least once a week.
Your tank looks very healthy!!! Can't wait to hear more

 

[jpc763]

Originally Posted by Rykna
IMHO you can almost never have enough snails. The red slime algae is actually a great sign!!! It's the first step towards a mature salt tank. Keep up with the 10% water changes, what type of lighting are you using?
The next step after the red slime is maiden hair algae, after that stage things really take off.You need to make sure you have proper lighting. The desirable macro algae thrives under high lighting. The red slime junk prefers low light and water high in waster to feed on. So having a big clean up crew is a big part of getting ahead of the red slime...guessing at what stage of maturing your tank is in, and looking at you LR and LS you should be out of the red slime in a week-week and a half. I like my sand tiger star...they're great for vacuming the sand bed, just make sure to offer them some type of shrimp pellets at least once a week.
Your tank looks very healthy!!! Can't wait to hear more

Thanks for the input!
So I was planning on moving my snails from the refugium to the DT, but they are busy cleaning out the refugium!

I am going to have to buy snails tomorrow! How many more?
I have T5 x 54 lighting on the DT and fluorescent in the refugium.
Should I introduce anything else besides snails tomorrow?
What about the rock that has all of the algae on it? Shold I do something about that?
Of note, I am going on vacation on Saturday for a week. I had not planned on any more critters until I get back, but I sure do not want to return to a tank filled with algae

 

[jpc763]

The statistics...
Temp: 80
SG: 1.023
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5-10 ppm
J

 

[rykna]

How many snails are in your 55 right now? If it were me I'd do a 20% water change, syphon off as much of the red muck as I could, and up the water movement while I was gone. The snails don't think much of the red slime. I'd get 5-10 snails, i do see a little bit of the maiden hair coming in. If you get to many snails you could end up with a bigger mess of starving cannibal snails when you get back. I'd wait until you get back to add more snails, IMHO.

 

[saltn00b]

the brown algae is diatoms, its a natural phase of a new tank that occurs usually right after a cycle. only a few things eat it, but dont worry it is harmless and goes away on its own in a few days.

 

[jpc763]

Originally Posted by Rykna
How many snails are in your 55 right now? If it were me I'd do a 20% water change, syphon off as much of the red muck as I could, and up the water movement while I was gone. The snails don't think much of the red slime. I'd get 5-10 snails, i do see a little bit of the maiden hair coming in. If you get to many snails you could end up with a bigger mess of starving cannibal snails when you get back. I'd wait until you get back to add more snails, IMHO.

I have 6 snails. 4 are in the refugium and 2 in the DT.
Based on the fact that these diatoms are temporary, I will not "rush out" and buy snails. I sure don't want to starve them to death.
I will get a full cleaner crew upon return from vacation along with a few fish.
Sound like a good plan?