carbon shipping expiriment/zoas

[reefkprz]

well I had a brain child a while back because I saw a member here uses carbon in packages when shipping and I was wondering how benificial a few granules of carbon truly were during shipping. SOOOOOOooo I decided to ship two frags to somebody willing to do the tests when they arrive.... the frags are now on their way accross the country from maine to wyoming (should be enough of a trip to see some sort of water detriment)
they are actually hiking a ride in the same box as the thermos. but not inside the thermos.
the set up.
two frags palythoa grandis 1 palythoa per bag each on its own plug.
shipping USPS priority flate rate (2-3 days)
one bag contains a few granules of high quality research grade carbon. the other does not.
water test results Prior to adding carbon, frags, and closing the bags.
Ammonia 0 all three tests
nitrite 0 all three tests
nitrate 0 all three tests
phos .02-.00 first test was .02 second was zero third was zero
PH 8.0
in two or three days we should see the results of the water tests to see if in this case it made a difference.

 

[scopus tang]

Z, what manufactor test kit did you use for each test? Just so I know which one to use.

 

[reefkprz]

I used hagen test kits on all of them.

 

[flricordia]

There probably won't be any difference in yhe readings. I already did that. Took 2 rics, placed them in separate bags sealed with carbon overnight and tested next day, no difference. Took 2 zoa frags, same results. Did just water, no change.
What I do is soak CARBON PELLETS in kalk water overngiht, remove them and let them dry and drop a few into the shipping bags when shipping. The kalk will help keep the ph up as the coral slimes and causes the ph to drop. Only a couple four or so per bag. The carbon will to some extent purify the water, but it will not be readable on a test kit and to use enough carbon to get a reading would not be good for the coral as it would change the ph, remove ions, minerals, etc causing the coral to exaust itself through protective sliming.
Like I said, I already did the tests, but nothing wrong with doing more, just letting you know about the kalk and its role in helping to maintain the ph.

 

[reefkprz]

*S* its fun to try anyway, besides I dont think, scopus tang is going to complain hes getting two palythoa grandis frags for free.

did forget about the Kalk, you mentioned it before, the problem being carbon works on adsortion not absorption so in theory any kalk adsorbed by the carbon wouldnt be re released, it would remain locked in the carbon.
carbon when wet also quickly adsorbs O2, there are serious warnings about this when it comes to air purification or massive water purification for the people that have to enter carbon chambers, I think this would negate any potential benifit of the kalk.... just thoughts here....
I also used research grade carbon thinking it would stand a better chance of showing results versus, the pelletized carbons.
this is also 2-3 day shipping more time for the water to get nasty, especially with a known Palytoxin containing palythoa, anything in that water stands a good chance of dying from palytoxins released due to stress so we may see differences in amm, trite, or trate. HOPEFULLY enough to show in our largly innaccurate hobbyest test kits.
but in the end your probably right both bags will probably test out the same.

thanks for your input Mike, it's definatly valuable.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2630867
*S* its fun to try anyway, besides I dont think, scopus tang is going to complain hes getting two palythoa grandis frags for free.

did forget about the Kalk, you mentioned it before, the problem being carbon works on adsortion not absorption so in theory any kalk adsorbed by the carbon wouldnt be re released, it would remain locked in the carbon.
carbon when wet also quickly adsorbs O2, there are serious warnings about this when it comes to air purification or massive water purification for the people that have to enter carbon chambers, I think this would negate any potential benifit of the kalk.... just thoughts here....
I also used research grade carbon thinking it would stand a better chance of showing results versus, the pelletized carbons.
this is also 2-3 day shipping more time for the water to get nasty, especially with a known Palytoxin containing palythoa, anything in that water stands a good chance of dying from palytoxins released due to stress so we may see differences in amm, trite, or trate. HOPEFULLY enough to show in our largly innaccurate hobbyest test kits.
but in the end your probably right both bags will probably test out the same.

thanks for your input Mike, it's definatly valuable.

+1^ no complaints, I always like free corals

. Besides, science is only valid when repeated ~ three days in plastic bags may show a difference. Consider it a controlled experiment being repeated.

 

[earnit33]

What exactly is the carbon suppose to help out with,just wandering!

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by earnit33
http:///forum/post/2630974
What exactly is the carbon suppose to help out with,just wandering!
thats what I was wondering too thats why we are doing this.
mike does it with kalk to assist with PH, we are doing it to see if there is a noticable difference in water quality between to similar frags.

 

[flricordia]

True about the carbon taking in and not releasing, but if you soak it in kalk I think you will find that carbon does fib little and will increase the ph as bit.
But whatever it does I do know that since I started doing this losses have greatly decreased the point of null. Now, why I do not know as I have not tested except in theory, if you add too much there can be loss, and it may be as you say, oxygen depletion.

 

[earnit33]

Ok,I'm going to keep a check on any up dates! That would be nice to know

Trying to learn a little.

 

[reefkprz]

well USPS screwed up and it took 5 days to get there... hopefully some stuff lived. thats 3 frags hopefully some survived 5 days in a bag though I am not very hopefull.

 

[alexa11]

Oh wow, someone else in maine!

 

[rebelprettyboy]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2636475
well USPS screwed up and it took 5 days to get there... hopefully some stuff lived. thats 3 frags hopefully some survived 5 days in a bag though I am not very hopefull.
dang that ridicoulios (SP) lol... What company screwed this up? UPS?

 

[rebelprettyboy]

oh nvmd USPS

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by alexa11
http:///forum/post/2636569
Oh wow, someone else in maine!
hi, bangor here, where are you?

 

[reefkprz]

I was really hoping to see some results tonight when I got home from up north instead I got to hear (well read) from the tracking number that the frags only beat me to the destination by hours.
the water tests should be done by now, the next post from scopus should have 5 day results of our expiriment, I think that may be far too much for the few particles of carbon in the bag.

Scopus I have more of the blue eyes if that frag in the thermos doesnt survive, let me know.
hey, all else fails lets see some pictures and people will know what to look for as frags die from shipping errors.

 

[scopus tang]

Thermos finally arrived

Ok, five days shipping (stupid USPS); here's the results.
Frag without carbon
Ammonia 1.2 (w/pH adjustment 0.6) all three tests
nitrite < 0.1 all three tests
nitrate < 5/0/<5 (again, just a touch a color ~ not enough to register)
phos 0.0 to 0.25 none tested high enough to be 0.25, but all showed just a little color
pH 8.0
Frag with carbon
Ammonia 0.4/0.3/0.3
nitrite < 0.0 all three test
nitrate < 5/0/0
phos 0.25 to 0.5 none tested high enough to be 0.25, but all showed just a little color
pH 8.0
Just out of curiousity, I tested pH and ammonia on the thermos frag
Ammonia 1.2 (w/pH adjustment 0.4)
pH 7.9
It does appear that the carbon did help with ammonia levels over the long haul, but appeared to have the opposite effect on phospate.
Frags upon arrival

Frags after an hour and a half of testing

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2636787
I was really hoping to see some results tonight when I got home from up north instead I got to hear (well read) from the tracking number that the frags only beat me to the destination by hours.
the water tests should be done by now, the next post from scopus should have 5 day results of our expiriment, I think that may be far too much for the few particles of carbon in the bag.

Scopus I have more of the blue eyes if that frag in the thermos doesnt survive, let me know.
hey, all else fails lets see some pictures and people will know what to look for as frags die from shipping errors.
Sorry I was so slow, just finished testing and had to run off to the first local reef club meeting ~ since I was hosting at the high school, I couldn't be late. Got there and no power ~ drilling for the new line, and cut the old one ahead of schedule

. Anyway, changed meeting places and I finally got a chance to post. Kind of surprising results, according to the tests, the noncarbonated frag was in the dangerous but not lethal zone, and the one with carbon was no were close. Course we didn't test for oxygen, so not saying they will make it for sure, but lets wait and see how they do.
Thanks for the offer Z, I'll keep posting so everyone can see how they come out.

 

[reefkprz]

the palythoas look great

the blue eyes look fuzzy..... not good.
hey did anything leak? at all?in thermos? in bag, between bags?

 

[reefkprz]

OH palys are as low in my tank as possible, and blue eyes were in the top, so it may take the blue eyes a while to come around at sand bed level (dont move them though) just let them acclimate. if we are lucky they'll pull through.