CC or sand bed
- Thread starter chat noir
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seannmelly
Active Member
Sandbeds tend to be more dominant for a few reasons. It is more beneficial then crushed coral. there is more surface area for "good" bacteria to grow/live on then crushed coral, and crushed coral tends to be a nitrate trap. In our first tank ever we had crushed coral, and the nitrates were always through the roof no matter what we did. We now have a sand bed in our 125 and nitrates are >5.
pclown
Member
Originally Posted by seannmelly
Sandbeds tend to be more dominant for a few reasons. It is more beneficial then crushed coral. there is more surface area for "good" bacteria to grow/live on then crushed coral, and crushed coral tends to be a nitrate trap. In our first tank ever we had crushed coral, and the nitrates were always through the roof no matter what we did. We now have a sand bed in our 125 and nitrates are >5.
I agree!!
Sandbeds tend to be more dominant for a few reasons. It is more beneficial then crushed coral. there is more surface area for "good" bacteria to grow/live on then crushed coral, and crushed coral tends to be a nitrate trap. In our first tank ever we had crushed coral, and the nitrates were always through the roof no matter what we did. We now have a sand bed in our 125 and nitrates are >5.
I agree!!
T
thomas712
Guest
Most of us will not use crushed coral because it is a large substrate that traps the fish waste and uneaten food that has to be vacuumed before it creates nitrates, which it will anyway. Crushed coral does not provide a very good biological zone, and many tanks are setup with CC from the get go through lack of knowledge or because it is the only substrate that an LFS sells and tells you that it is all you need, using a selling point of CC has buffering power. I have personally battled nitrates over 100 ppm during my days of CC and UGF doing frequent large water changes. So many of us have been there and had high nitrates, did a water change to lower them and they were back in a couple of days. CC has sharp edges, which is undesirable for inverts, like anemones walking around, pods or worms. No getting around it CC is high maintenance and can lead to poor water quality, frequent maintenance, sick livestock, algae blooms and more.
Sand on the other hand has more benefits. These include having far more surface area thereby making it able to handle a higher bio load of bacteria. It is less dangerous to your infauna and has a more natural look in the tank. If going with a DSB Deep Sand Bed you can have other benefits as well like finishing the denitrification or providing sand sifting, burrowing, or tunneling fish and critters a place to play. The denitrification process predominantly occurs in deeper substrates and in areas of stagnant flow where oxygen levels are depressed. And this is why deep sand beds are effective as a nitrogen export mechanism. As water slowly diffuses deeper, aerobic organisms strip all available oxygen for respiration. In the deep, oxygen-deprived layers, denitrifying anaerobes are given the opportunity to convert nitrogen compounds into nitrogenous gases, which escape via tiny bubble out of the aquarium. I believe this process can also work on a limited basis in shallow sand beds. My sand bed is no more than 2 inches deep in some spots.
As to the mixing of live sand and crushed coral. Doing so would be a mistake. First off the CC would rise to the top and the sand would push to the bottom, eventually all you would see is the crushed coral on top. This CC would then still trap detritus and need to be vacuumed, and you would just be sucking up some sand with it every time you did it. The sand bed under the CC might not function correctly or build up anoxic regions and if you broke into those areas with your syphon you could have a crash of the tank. The water flow would not reach the sand correctly sending it the nutrients it needed to process it. Instead the nutrients would fall on top of it through the crushed coral where it would stagnate until you vacuumed it.
The idea with sand and good water flow is that larger particles of detritus would stay in the water column where the mechanical filtration would remove it, and the dissolved particles would flow into the sand bed where the infauna can process it into smaller pieces and the sand bed can process it into a harmless gas that escapes the tank.
Thomas
Sand on the other hand has more benefits. These include having far more surface area thereby making it able to handle a higher bio load of bacteria. It is less dangerous to your infauna and has a more natural look in the tank. If going with a DSB Deep Sand Bed you can have other benefits as well like finishing the denitrification or providing sand sifting, burrowing, or tunneling fish and critters a place to play. The denitrification process predominantly occurs in deeper substrates and in areas of stagnant flow where oxygen levels are depressed. And this is why deep sand beds are effective as a nitrogen export mechanism. As water slowly diffuses deeper, aerobic organisms strip all available oxygen for respiration. In the deep, oxygen-deprived layers, denitrifying anaerobes are given the opportunity to convert nitrogen compounds into nitrogenous gases, which escape via tiny bubble out of the aquarium. I believe this process can also work on a limited basis in shallow sand beds. My sand bed is no more than 2 inches deep in some spots.
As to the mixing of live sand and crushed coral. Doing so would be a mistake. First off the CC would rise to the top and the sand would push to the bottom, eventually all you would see is the crushed coral on top. This CC would then still trap detritus and need to be vacuumed, and you would just be sucking up some sand with it every time you did it. The sand bed under the CC might not function correctly or build up anoxic regions and if you broke into those areas with your syphon you could have a crash of the tank. The water flow would not reach the sand correctly sending it the nutrients it needed to process it. Instead the nutrients would fall on top of it through the crushed coral where it would stagnate until you vacuumed it.
The idea with sand and good water flow is that larger particles of detritus would stay in the water column where the mechanical filtration would remove it, and the dissolved particles would flow into the sand bed where the infauna can process it into smaller pieces and the sand bed can process it into a harmless gas that escapes the tank.
Thomas
chat noir
New Member
Thanks guys that was fast!
ive had CC in my tank now for over 2 years and my levels dont seem to fluctuate as often as compared to what i have read in your posts - i am however considering the change to sand, but how do you clean it when you do water changes?
As well, if i do decide to make the change, if i remove all the CC at once, will this not throw off the water perameters causing big trouble for my fish and me?
ive had CC in my tank now for over 2 years and my levels dont seem to fluctuate as often as compared to what i have read in your posts - i am however considering the change to sand, but how do you clean it when you do water changes?
As well, if i do decide to make the change, if i remove all the CC at once, will this not throw off the water perameters causing big trouble for my fish and me?
chat noir
New Member
Originally Posted by Thomas712
Most of us will not use crushed coral because it is a large substrate that traps the fish waste and uneaten food that has to be vacuumed before it creates nitrates, which it will anyway. Crushed coral does not provide a very good biological zone, and many tanks are setup with CC from the get go through lack of knowledge or because it is the only substrate that an LFS sells and tells you that it is all you need, using a selling point of CC has buffering power. I have personally battled nitrates over 100 ppm during my days of CC and UGF doing frequent large water changes. So many of us have been there and had high nitrates, did a water change to lower them and they were back in a couple of days. CC has sharp edges, which is undesirable for inverts, like anemones walking around, pods or worms. No getting around it CC is high maintenance and can lead to poor water quality, frequent maintenance, sick livestock, algae blooms and more.
Thomas
Does CC offer any positives?
Most of us will not use crushed coral because it is a large substrate that traps the fish waste and uneaten food that has to be vacuumed before it creates nitrates, which it will anyway. Crushed coral does not provide a very good biological zone, and many tanks are setup with CC from the get go through lack of knowledge or because it is the only substrate that an LFS sells and tells you that it is all you need, using a selling point of CC has buffering power. I have personally battled nitrates over 100 ppm during my days of CC and UGF doing frequent large water changes. So many of us have been there and had high nitrates, did a water change to lower them and they were back in a couple of days. CC has sharp edges, which is undesirable for inverts, like anemones walking around, pods or worms. No getting around it CC is high maintenance and can lead to poor water quality, frequent maintenance, sick livestock, algae blooms and more.
Thomas
Does CC offer any positives?
N
nereef
Guest
Originally Posted by chat noir
Does CC offer any positives?
if you like the looks of it....and you keep it clean it can be nice.
Does CC offer any positives?
if you like the looks of it....and you keep it clean it can be nice.
hedonic
Member
Originally Posted by Thomas712
As to the mixing of live sand and crushed coral. Doing so would be a mistake. First off the CC would rise to the top and the sand would push to the bottom, eventually all you would see is the crushed coral on top.
Thomas
This has not been true in my tank. Although I have a pistol Goby pair that keep it pretty well mixed up. The pistol actually uses the CC to strengthen his tunnels. I have heard from customers that Jaw fish will do the same. Even in tanks with no sandmovers I dont know that this is an enventuality. You can balme CC for detritus, but a well maintained tank, and a knowledgable reef keeper can prevent it. I maintain tanks with CC/sand beds that are gorgeous, you just need to be aware of the potential for detritus buildup.
As to the mixing of live sand and crushed coral. Doing so would be a mistake. First off the CC would rise to the top and the sand would push to the bottom, eventually all you would see is the crushed coral on top.
Thomas
This has not been true in my tank. Although I have a pistol Goby pair that keep it pretty well mixed up. The pistol actually uses the CC to strengthen his tunnels. I have heard from customers that Jaw fish will do the same. Even in tanks with no sandmovers I dont know that this is an enventuality. You can balme CC for detritus, but a well maintained tank, and a knowledgable reef keeper can prevent it. I maintain tanks with CC/sand beds that are gorgeous, you just need to be aware of the potential for detritus buildup.
T
thomas712
Guest
Originally Posted by hedonic
You can blame CC for detritus, but a well maintained tank, and a knowledgeable reef keeper can prevent it..
I completely agree with that, but you know how lazy folks can be.
You can blame CC for detritus, but a well maintained tank, and a knowledgeable reef keeper can prevent it..
I completely agree with that, but you know how lazy folks can be.
chat noir
New Member
Originally Posted by hedonic
This has not been true in my tank. Although I have a pistol Goby pair that keep it pretty well mixed up. The pistol actually uses the CC to strengthen his tunnels. I have heard from customers that Jaw fish will do the same. Even in tanks with no sandmovers I dont know that this is an enventuality. You can balme CC for detritus, but a well maintained tank, and a knowledgable reef keeper can prevent it. I maintain tanks with CC/sand beds that are gorgeous, you just need to be aware of the potential for detritus buildup.
i agree - burrowing fish like to have both in order to strengthen their homes - do you ever replace your CC substrate? Im thinking of removing mine and possibly changing to sandbed so that i can aquire certain fish. if i remove my ccbed all at once, i will be at risk of throwing off the water parameters?? Advice would be appreciated!!!! :notsure:
This has not been true in my tank. Although I have a pistol Goby pair that keep it pretty well mixed up. The pistol actually uses the CC to strengthen his tunnels. I have heard from customers that Jaw fish will do the same. Even in tanks with no sandmovers I dont know that this is an enventuality. You can balme CC for detritus, but a well maintained tank, and a knowledgable reef keeper can prevent it. I maintain tanks with CC/sand beds that are gorgeous, you just need to be aware of the potential for detritus buildup.
i agree - burrowing fish like to have both in order to strengthen their homes - do you ever replace your CC substrate? Im thinking of removing mine and possibly changing to sandbed so that i can aquire certain fish. if i remove my ccbed all at once, i will be at risk of throwing off the water parameters?? Advice would be appreciated!!!! :notsure:
engineer
Member
OK, I have decided to go with sand in new 120. I initially wanted to seed my new aquarium with some of the CC subsrtate thats in there now, to cut as many loses as possible(fish and inhabitants). If I am using all the live rock from there and a good deal of new I should be ok as far as cycling right? I read on here to just get the minimum that you can buy of live sand and seed it with that and then use other sand to make up remaining difference for depth. Would that be as beneficial? Plus I would still sift all the goodies out of my old substrate. Any advice/ feedback would be greatly appreciated!!!!!
T
thomas712
Guest
Originally Posted by engineer
If I am using all the live rock from there and a good deal of new I should be ok as far as cycling right?
I read on here to just get the minimum that you can buy of live sand and seed it with that and then use other sand to make up remaining difference for depth. Would that be as beneficial?
Plus I would still sift all the goodies out of my old substrate. Any advice/ feedback would be greatly appreciated!!!!!
1. You will still need to go through a cycle but it might not be as long.
2. You can use dead sand and live sand, all will become live in time.
3. Stick some of your old CC into clean nylons and stick that in your new tank, this will help with bacteria and many pods can escape, just put a run it the nylon.
If I am using all the live rock from there and a good deal of new I should be ok as far as cycling right?
I read on here to just get the minimum that you can buy of live sand and seed it with that and then use other sand to make up remaining difference for depth. Would that be as beneficial?
Plus I would still sift all the goodies out of my old substrate. Any advice/ feedback would be greatly appreciated!!!!!
1. You will still need to go through a cycle but it might not be as long.
2. You can use dead sand and live sand, all will become live in time.
3. Stick some of your old CC into clean nylons and stick that in your new tank, this will help with bacteria and many pods can escape, just put a run it the nylon.
lazarus
Member
guys...how do you even know you are getting true "sand"
when I asked two LFS to show me their sand they showed me CC. in one store it was in a bucket, in another it was bagged as "sand" but if you read the fine print its CC.
what should i be asking for specifically, to get the real deal???
when I asked two LFS to show me their sand they showed me CC. in one store it was in a bucket, in another it was bagged as "sand" but if you read the fine print its CC.
what should i be asking for specifically, to get the real deal???
maroonytun
Member
The downside to sand is that you can't siphon it. I went with crushed coral on my nano because I plan on having seahores and I have sand on my 29 that always has high trates.
celacanthr
Active Member
Originally Posted by GoNgShOw
What is the proper way to swap cc for sand? I don't have a second tank for my fish... will they be ok in the tank during the swap?
This thread should answer all your questions
What is the proper way to swap cc for sand? I don't have a second tank for my fish... will they be ok in the tank during the swap?
This thread should answer all your questions