CC or sand bed

[celacanthr]

Originally Posted by LAZARUS
guys...how do you even know you are getting true "sand"
when I asked two LFS to show me their sand they showed me CC. in one store it was in a bucket, in another it was bagged as "sand" but if you read the fine print its CC.
what should i be asking for specifically, to get the real deal???
The best way to be sure would be to look at the "sand" before you buy it, and decide if the grain size is small enough.

 

[celacanthr]

Originally Posted by maroonytun
The downside to sand is that you can't siphon it. I went with crushed coral on my nano because I plan on having seahores and I have sand on my 29 that always has high trates.
To prevent detritus from building up on the surface of the sand you could have some sandshifters (not sifters) which should keep the surface clean.
:happyfish

 

[gongshow]

First off thanks for that link... great post!
Is 100% live sand needed? or will half "newcastle playsand" and half live sand work? Will my tank cycle again after the swap?

 

[maroonytun]

Thanks a lot. Can you tell me what these sandshifters would be called???

 

[100 guppi]

Originally Posted by maroonytun
Can you tell me what these sandshifters would be called???
sandsifting crab sandsifting cucumber & sandsifting shrimp

 

[sly]

Oh brother!

I've run CC for 4 years and have not had a single test which showed any nitrate since I shrank it down to a 1 inch depth. Yes... 0 ppm nitrates ALWAYS.
This really gets old. The worst part is that it's always certain moderators who constantly say the same thing over and over again that CC is a detrius trap and a nitrate factory when there are many reefkeepers on this forum who constantly show them otherwise...

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by Thomas712
It is less dangerous to your infauna and has a more natural look in the tank.
According to these reef pictures, coarse rocky crushed coral is the more natural look. Most anemones I've seen were always attached to some other piece of rough coral... not fine sand. In the wild they somehow manage to keep from getting cut. :thinking:
I think when people think of huge sand beds as being natural, they are thinking of the beach. The two reefs I've dived at in Hawaii and in Florida were anything but smooth white sands. It was rough coral and jagged rock all the way through with patches of sand scattered about. You don't see huge expanses of sand until you get away from the reef and out in the open ocean. ***)

 

[celacanthr]

Originally Posted by GoNgShOw
First off thanks for that link... great post!
Is 100% live sand needed? or will half "newcastle playsand" and half live sand work? Will my tank cycle again after the swap?
1)Your welcome :happyfish
2)No, 100% live sand is very unnecessary, all you need is some "dead sand" (newcastle or the like) and enough live sand to seed the dead sand with sand critters.
3)Sorry, but IDK

 

[celacanthr]

Originally Posted by maroonytun
Thanks a lot. Can you tell me what these sandshifters would be called???

Originally Posted by 100 Guppi
sandsifting crab sandsifting cucumber & sandsifting shrimp
I wouldn't get the sand sifting crab unless you have a really big DSB
The sand sifting cucumbers are GREAT, I love them. But just get one.
I have never heard of sandsifting shrimp
Nassarius vibex snails, and Common Marginella are my personal favorite, but only get them if you feed the tank lots of meaty food, since they easily starve.
:happyfish

 

[maroonytun]

If he sandsifting cucumber stresses or dies will it poision my tank??? If not could you tell me what they usually cost.

 

[celacanthr]

yes they can. but there are some that very rarely poison the tank, even if they die.
The prices range greatly depending on what species you get.

 

[vanquish]

This is an interesting debate. Like Sly, I run a CC bottom which ranges from 1.5in to 1.0in depending where you look. I made it this shallow for a reason, so I wouldn’t develop dead spots. What I have found is an excellent buffer medium and tons of surface area for beneficial bacteria growth, yet it is not deep enough for nitrogenous compounds to build up. I never have to vacuum the cc or anything.
All of that said, I agree with a lot of the people who advocate sand, and i am actually going to set up a second tank which will use sand soon. I feel that if you know what you’re doing when you make an aquarium with CC or Sand, its really just a matter of preference.

 

[100 guppi]

ooopppps i ment sandsifting star
i dont have a very good memory
well what do you expect i'm only 11

that bannanna dudes cool

 

[rick58]

Sly, I don't think anyone was saying that cc can't work. It seemed to me the discusion was focussed more on the effort to maintain and the risks introduced when using the different scenarios. Crushed coral can work (I've used it and had no issues) - but you need to vacuum it regularly or it will collect a significant amount detritus which will cause your nitrates to rise. Unlike a sand bed, there are few critters that will help you keep it clean.
Long term a poorly maintained sand bed can also become a nitrate trap. The effort here involves maintaining a diverse set of critters in and above the bed and good current. Not as easy as it sounds, but easier than regular vacuuming. (my 92 reef has had a dsb for years with no issues, no nitrates and no vacuuming).
I also have 46 gal bare bottom backed by a 30 gal refugium. Suprisingly to me I have had to vacuum this a couple of times where collection of detritus built up. I had this tank bare bottom for 2 years with no issues, no nitrates and little vacuuming.
They all will work, especially if you are committed to regular water changes. But being married with children I prefer the DSB. In my experience it has proven to be low maintainance and more tolerant of a little neglect from time to time.
But all will work, if you have the time...

 

[sly]

I respect that.

 

[lazarus]

hey, i am also married with children! how about a little help here for those of us that cannot keep the story straight b/c the little ones keep tugging at our trouser legs!
what i need to know is that if i want a DSB w. sand...what kind of sand do i want specifically? that beautiful fine white powder, or something coarser? I have seen some sand that has a coarseness index...is there an ideal for DSB?
i am about to fill my new 100g FOWLR tank and hope to add soft corals and sandshifters. I have 40 lbs of aragonite i plan to put on top of my substrate...can someone PLEASE tell me what to look for?
sorry if i seem stressed but i have asked this question many times on the threads as i do not trust the LFS to know what to sell me.
thanks in advance!

 

[lazarus]

please???? i have some fish very anxious to move into their new home, and dont want to screw it up!

 

[sly]

Use only aquarium grade sand or southdown play sand. Normal sand is very high in silicates and therefore is not good for aquarium use. As long as a sand is safe for aquariums, it should be good to use in a deep sand bed regardless of grain size. The courser the grains, the better water transfer you will get to the bottom, but the deeper the sand will have to be to get the effect needed. If you use finer grain sand, your deep sand bed will not have to be as deep to work effectively. The more sand you use, the less water you will have in your tank so consider that... The depth of the sand bed can only be correctly determined through scientific testing. Each tank is different with different water current patterns and different "dead zones". Traditionally you need good water flow through the use of several power heads and around 4-5 inches of sand depth. But this is a generic figure and could actually be deeper or shallower depending on your tank.

 

[lazarus]

this is great...thanks. i used a calculator suggesting about 120 lbs for a 3 in. sand bed. so, i can get the fine white powder and lay on top of it the aragonite LS? i will also be adding about 75 lb of LR at the outset.
will also put some CC from my existing 29g (in a stocking) and add some water from here as well when I do my next two water changes.
how does this sound for a jump start on cycling process?

 

[sly]

It sounds good except that you don't want to mix cc and sand. Make sure that you put your "seed" cc in panty hose. Bury it in your sand so that the bacteria will colonise the sand.