CCW

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393837/ccw/20#post_3505343
That's the point I'm trying to make. Could you exist without your guns?
Maybe, Maybe not.

 

[bang guy]

A lot of people exist without cars and a lot of people exist without guns. I don't see the point other than owning a car is not a Constitutional Right.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393837/ccw/20#post_3505266
Trust me it's not super easy to walk in and out of schools at least where I live, and I think it this situation he didn't walk in, from what I've heard he shot his way in......I deliver to the local schools in my area at least 3X a week and I'm know, and they see the big UPS truck and still doesn't get me instantly buzzed in.......
I guess your right in a sense, but who ever is prepared to take someones life.....Do you think all of us that went to war were prepared, or all the young men and women were sending now are prepared.....Heck the military has more training than your average police department has, and it's still chaotic......
Not saying the situation would be clean, clear and concise, but what your asking or wanting is to take away individuals options or rights, to suit your fear or phobia that this will solve the problem.....Heck why not ban sports cars, lets ban alcohol while were at it.....Oh.......The ban on alcohol might just infringe on a bit of "enjoyment" you might like from time to time.....Would that be ok, that we do that, because a few can't behave and follow rules......
My fear or phobia isn't towards the gun owner who knows what and why he/she purchases a particular firearm. They learn and understand the operation of the weapon, they get proper training on how to use it, they go to the firing range and learn to shoot it accurately. If the get a CHL, they try and understand the consequences of using their weapon improperly, and may even get the specific training to handle various scenarios. My biggest fear is these thousands of idiots who right after this Newton incident ran down to their local gun store, Academy, or gun show, and did this impulse buy paying $500-$700 over market price for a weapon they have no use for just because the media frenzy tells them Obama is going to ban them. I went to a gun show the weekend before this incident happened. Any dealer that was selling guns had at least 10 different variations of AR-type fireams. They were selling as low as $699, and up to $1800. I walked around the show for almost two hours, and the majority of sales were people buying handguns and accessories. I think I may have seen 10 people walk out with an AR, if that. This last weekend, another gun show came to town, and the news reported that people were waiting as long as an hour to get in. By the end of the day, there wasn't one AR-type firearm on the table, and no .223 ammo was anywhere to be found. The $699-$1800 was jacked up to $1200 - $2800. So all of a sudden 200 - 400 individuals suddenly decided to drop that kind of cash just because they were "interested" in owning one of these types of weapons? This was just in San Antonio. So now you have thousands of these firearms floating around the country, purchased by people either strictly because of the media hype, or people looking to make a fast buck buy turning the things over to someone else looking for one. That's where the REAL scary part comes in. These people will stick these guns out on Craigslist or their local newspaper classifieds, and sell them to ANYONE that has the cash. No paperwork filled out, no background check, probably not even a copy of their ID. So you can just imagine what kind of individuals are buying them. Can we say the next person in line to walk in somewhere and have another shooting carnage?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505346
A lot of people exist without cars and a lot of people exist without guns. I don't see the point other than owning a car is not a Constitutional Right.
Could you exist without your car? You apparently can't exist without your gun.
And the only reason why owning guns is a Constitutional Right is because of the skewed interpretation of that Amendment. The Founding Fathers wrote that Amendement as a protection mechanism for US citizens to arm themselves in the event this country was ever invaded by another oppressive government like England, or if our own government were to become too corrupt and tried to change from a Democratic society to a Dictatorship or Theocracy. Exactly what changed in the mindset of our society from the 1800's to the present day? Back then, anyone and everyone wore or carried a firearm. It was like an extension to their body, or their mode of transportation (horse or buggy). When did that ideology change and why?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505348
Could you exist without your car? You apparently can't exist without your gun.
And the only reason why owning guns is a Constitutional Right is because of the skewed interpretation of that Amendment. The Founding Fathers wrote that Amendement as a protection mechanism for US citizens to arm themselves in the event this country was ever invaded by another oppressive government like England, or if our own government were to become too corrupt and tried to change from a Democratic society to a Dictatorship or Theocracy. Exactly what changed in the mindset of our society from the 1800's to the present day? Back then, anyone and everyone wore or carried a firearm. It was like an extension to their body, or their mode of transportation (horse or buggy). When did that ideology change and why?
LOL! We've sent you links to the words of the people who wrote and signed the bill of rights but you presume to know better than they what they meant when they wrote it? If you think we should no longer have the right spearhead a movement to repeal it.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393837/ccw/20#post_3505344
Are you going to pay for it? Slick Rick here in Texas has decimated our Public School budget to the point that districts are laying teachers off, and reducing needed services. But of course it's better to spend that money protecting the kids instead of teaching them just so someone can have the right to own a gun.
We already talked about this in the other thread. And I said that I wouldn't mind paying a little more in taxes to help protect our nations youth. A couple of us were even trying to discuss how we might be able to afford to pay for it. But you just kept wanting to go on and on about how ridiculous it is to own a bunch of magazines. I guess you're more focused on that then the bigger issue. I don't think any one here is suggesting we make it any easier for people to obtain a CCW.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505352
We already talked about this in the other thread. And I said that I wouldn't mind paying a little more in taxes to help protect our nations youth. A couple of us were even trying to discuss how we might be able to afford to pay for it. But you just kept wanting to go on and on about how ridiculous it is to own a bunch of magazines. I guess you're more focused on that then the bigger issue. I don't think any one here is suggesting we make it any easier for people to obtain a CCW.
You sit here and complain about Obama and Spend! Spend! Spend!, but when it's something on your agenda, it's "I don't mind paying higher taxes.." Just get all those Top 1%ers to donate the money. I'm sure Trump could rop a half billion or o to the cause. A-Rod could easily afford a few million. You got these actors making $25 million a movie, what's a half a mil from each one of them?
I'll take the typical Conservative approach. I got no dog in this hunt. All my kids will be out of school by this summer. Not my problem anymore. Why should my taxes go towards protecting somebody else's kids? Sound familiar?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505349
LOL! We've sent you links to the words of the people who wrote and signed the bill of rights but you presume to know better than they what they meant when they wrote it? If you think we should no longer have the right spearhead a movement to repeal it.
It's all in the interpretation. We've also stated multiple times that the people who wrote that Bill Of Rights never would have imagined how gun technology would advance through the centuries.
You never answered the question about what was the tipping point to where the nation changed their attitude towards people carrying guns anywhere and everywhere they wanted like they did back in the early 1800's? Back then, all you had were six-shooters and repeating rifles. Then came the invention of the Gatlin Gun. What hapened after that?

 

[darthtang aw]

ThIt's all in the interpretation.  We've also stated multiple times that the people who wrote that Bill Of Rights never would have imagined how gun technology would advance through the centuries.
You never answered the question about what was the tipping point to where the nation changed their attitude towards people carrying guns anywhere and everywhere they wanted like they did back in the early 1800's?  Back then, all you had were six-shooters and repeating rifles.  Then came the invention of the Gatlin Gun.  What hapened after that?
the gatlin gun was invented and used during the civil war. That gun did not change public perception to carrying guns as you are implying. And the framers allowed private cannon ownership. Pretty sure the cannon was pretty devastating when fired.

 

[darthtang aw]

And the framers knew times would change. This is why the made it possible to amend the Constitution. Want to limit firearms. Do it constitutionally.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505363
It's all in the interpretation. We've also stated multiple times that the people who wrote that Bill Of Rights never would have imagined how gun technology would advance through the centuries.
You never answered the question about what was the tipping point to where the nation changed their attitude towards people carrying guns anywhere and everywhere they wanted like they did back in the early 1800's? Back then, all you had were six-shooters and repeating rifles. Then came the invention of the Gatlin Gun. What hapened after that?
The Henry's and first Winchesters where the first "assault" weapons and they didn't change attitudes a bit. The creation on town Marshals and city police departments were usually followed by no carry ordinances. Of course those "bans" didn't work any better than what we have today.

 

[darthtang aw]

Some interesting news has broken in the wake of the latest push for gun control by President Obama and Senate Democrats: Obama sends his kids to a school where armed guards are used as a matter of fact.
The school, Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC, has 11 security officers and is seeking to hire a new police officer as we speak.
If you dismiss this by saying, "Of course they have armed guards -- they get Secret Service protection," then you've missed the larger point.
The larger point is that this is standard operating procedure for the school, period. And this is the reason people like NBC's David Gregory send their kids to Sidwell, they know their kids will be protected from the carnage that befell kids at a school where armed guards weren't used (and weren't even allowed).

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505404
Some interesting news has broken in the wake of the latest push for gun control by President Obama and Senate Democrats: Obama sends his kids to a school where armed guards are used as a matter of fact.
The school, Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC, has 11 security officers and is seeking to hire a new police officer as we speak.
If you dismiss this by saying, "Of course they have armed guards -- they get Secret Service protection," then you've missed the larger point.
The larger point is that this is standard operating procedure for the school, period. And this is the reason people like NBC's David Gregory send their kids to Sidwell, they know their kids will be protected from the carnage that befell kids at a school where armed guards weren't used (and weren't even allowed).
Are you surprised? Liberals do tend to be the bigger hypocrites. For all their big fat mouthed preaching about the "rich" paying their fair share of taxes none of the filthy rich libs have taken advantage of the special deficit reduction account the IRS has that anyone can contribute to. They think it's absurd to have armed guards at schools yet they have armed protection at their place of work. They claim it's bad for society to have the death penalty but think nothing of providing cheap and easy access to abortions. And it goes on and on.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505404
Some interesting news has broken in the wake of the latest push for gun control by President Obama and Senate Democrats: Obama sends his kids to a school where armed guards are used as a matter of fact.
The school, Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC, has 11 security officers and is seeking to hire a new police officer as we speak.
If you dismiss this by saying, "Of course they have armed guards -- they get Secret Service protection," then you've missed the larger point.
The larger point is that this is standard operating procedure for the school, period. And this is the reason people like NBC's David Gregory send their kids to Sidwell, they know their kids will be protected from the carnage that befell kids at a school where armed guards weren't used (and weren't even allowed).
The two largest school district in San Antonio have their own ARMED district police officers that patrol every elementary, middle, and high school in their district. These are PUBLIC schools. What's your point?

 

[darthtang aw]

The two largest school district in San Antonio have their own ARMED district police officers that patrol every elementary, middle, and high school in their district.  These are PUBLIC schools.  What's your point?
Didn't you say your education budget was slashed (even thought your state ranks 10th in the nation while spending less than those behind them in money spent per student and those ahead of them) and the schools couldn't afford this. Now your schools are doing it? The point is, armed security in schools. Crazy people target areas without security.
I went to the movies the other day...Two Police officers were stationed at the box office. We will use resources to protect a gun free zone owned by a private company...but god forbid we mention armed officers be placed in schools.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505436
Didn't you say your education budget was slashed (even thought your state ranks 10th in the nation while spending less than those behind them in money spent per student and those ahead of them) and the schools couldn't afford this. Now your schools are doing it? The point is, armed security in schools. Crazy people target areas without security.
I went to the movies the other day...Two Police officers were stationed at the box office. We will use resources to protect a gun free zone owned by a private company...but god forbid we mention armed officers be placed in schools.
My school district has had an armed police force as long as I can remember. However, there's only around 75 to cover 355 square miles and 112 schools. They can't be at every school all the time. You apparently haven't read where Slick Rick has slashed our state education budget, and in his typical Republican fashion, refuses to accept Federal funding. This year NEISD laid off 15% of their teachers, and NISD has a $61.4 million budget shortfall.
It's not feasible, logical, or fiscally responsible to try and stick multiple police officers at every single school in this nation. My daughter's high school probably has at least 20 different access points into the school. How many cops would you need to adequately protect every entrance? The majority of schools in this country weren't built with the kind of safety you require to "lock down" a school efficiently enough to protect for every single scenario. You'd spend billions securing entryways, setting up security cameas, etc., if you could even secure them at all without doing major renovations.
But why station cops at the movie theaters? I thought the only concern for children's safety was at school? Just don't complain when your movie tickets go up $2 - $3 so they can pay for those cops to provide you that false sense of security.

 

[darthtang aw]

My school district has had an armed police force as long as I can remember.  However, there's only around 75 to cover 355 square miles and 112 schools.  They can't be at every school all the time.  You apparently haven't read where Slick Rick has slashed our state education budget, and in his typical Republican fashion, refuses to accept Federal funding.  This year NEISD laid off 15% of their teachers, and NISD has a $61.4 million budget shortfall.
It's not feasible, logical, or fiscally responsible to try and stick multiple police officers at every single school in this nation.  My daughter's high school probably has at least 20 different access points into the school.  How many cops would you need to adequately protect every entrance?  The majority of schools in this country weren't built with the kind of safety you require to "lock down" a school efficiently enough to protect for every single scenario.  You'd spend billions securing entryways, setting up security cameas, etc., if you could even secure them at all without doing major renovations.
But why station cops at the movie theaters?  I thought the only concern for children's safety was at school?  Just don't complain when your movie tickets go up $2 - $3 so they can pay for those cops to provide you that false sense of security.
I paid 17 dollars for a movie ticket..2 more bucks wont kill me.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393837/ccw/40#post_3505441
I paid 17 dollars for a movie ticket..2 more bucks wont kill me.
That 2 bucks isn't going to make you any more secure either. It's dropped down into the 20's here in San Antonio, and everyone is walking around with big heavy coats. Weren't you the one bragging how you could pop as many shells off with your 9mm as someone with an AR? Someone could stash at least two 9mm's in a big, heavy jacket, along with several clips. Shoot, you could hide a Bushmaster or a TEC-9 in a long jacket. So did these cops frisk you before walking into the theater? Did you go through a metal detector? Like I said, "false sense of security".

 

[bionicarm]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/life/life_columnists/roy_bragg/article/Do-gun-owners-see-things-more-clearly-4146741.php
Here's an interesting take on the gun debate:

 

[2quills]

False sense. I thought the idea was to help save some lives by having immediate responders on the seen. We'll never irradicate random acts of violence completely.