Chemistry in first cycle, need some advice please

hookednewbie

hookednewbie

Member
Hi all and thanks up front for the help!
I have a 65 gallon tank that's been up and running for 12 days. I have 50lbs live rock cured from store and 60lbs live sand. My intention has been to cycle with LR and sand as basis. My test values have been:
Day 1 Day 5 Day 8 Day 11
pH 8 8 8.1 8.1
ammonia 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.25
nitrate 0 0 0 0
nitrite 0 0 0 0
spec. gravity 1.026 1.024 1.025 1.025
temp 76.2 77 77.7 78
My question is Why do I have a steady small amount of ammonia in the tank and no nitrates and no nitrites. I had thought to see the ammonia rise then sometime around now see some nitrates showing up. Also I thought thinks were supposed to spike? Meaning I thought I'd see numbers wax and wane over time. Am I just being impatient? Should I put some fish food in the tank to get a higher ammonia spike?
Right now I am starting to grow hair algea on the rock, also have seen at least 1 worm and 1 gorrilla crab, I don't think the various sponges will make it as the rock was moist but out of water for the 30 minutes home from LFS and getting it into the tank. For the algea problem and detrious on the rock I was thinking to put in a small clean up snail crew soon, but should I wait until there is no ammonia at all in the tank?
If you need any more info let me know, and thanks all
 
gcgrad

gcgrad

Member
I just started my cycle as well. I have a 125 gal tank. I added several cocktail sized shrimp. Day 8: Temp 78, salinity 1.024, pH 8.2, ammonia 1 ppm, nitrite 5 ppm, nitrate 20 ppm. My ammonia reading has been at 1 ppm since started getting readings. My nitrite was at 2 ppm yesterday and my nitrate was at 10 ppm yesterday. So I have seen a significant increase in those two since yesterday. I would advise adding 3-4 cocktail sized shrimp. It seemed to work for me. Also not saying you are doing your test wrong but pay close attention when you do them. I have the API test kit and have make sure I'm following the directions exactly as written. Hope this helps. Good luck!
Although I'm using live sand and base rock. You might want to see what others says before you do anything.
 
1guydude

1guydude

Well-Known Member
well with the api tests u need to wait 5min before reading the results!!!!
id ghost feed ur tank newbie....the parameters will be fluxuating and wont be more stable till about the 80th day! Wat kind of filtration are u running? As for the crab hitchiker, u need to rid ur tank of it if u intend on have a reef!!!
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Your 50 lbs. of live rock may have come with a biofilter population of sufficient capacity to handle your bioload that came in with the live rock. If it were me I would do a couple of days of ghost feeding the tank. That just means throw in a pinch or so of fish food and monitor the ammonia and nitrites during the next week. If your tank is where I think it is you will either see a slight rise in those parameter or nothing at all. After that week if nothing happens or the ammonia and nitrites rise and fall quickly I would go ahead and start to add some snails to start to deal with your algae. Do everything slowly here though and keep posting your results and what you are doing here so that we can follow along and make some suggestions.
 
hookednewbie

hookednewbie

Member
Thank you very much. I'll ghost feed a few days and keep watching. Also that gorilla crab is gonna be hard to catch! I only saw him once at night in poor lighting and when I went to the computer to ID him and came back, he was gone. I'm thinking before I add stuff I'm going to try the glass and bait trap, he's small only about the size of my fingertip. If I see him again though I'll chopstick him LOL
 
hookednewbie

hookednewbie

Member
I've got a marineland 350 and 280 hang on the back filters with charcoal and ammonia reducer for the optional filtration area
 
1guydude

1guydude

Well-Known Member
huh ya idk i dont run any anmonia or phosphate remover media.....get some ceramic rings or just LR rubble and add that! I have a HOB filtler on the 10gal. Im currently in need of a skimmer but im running 2 sponge medias, 1bag of carbon, some LR rubble and some ceramic rings in a mesh bag LOL all in one unit....who would have thought!
 
hookednewbie

hookednewbie

Member
Hi everyone,
hope you all had a good weekend!I ghost feed my tank the 22, 23, and 24th with all parameters remaining: ammonia 0.1-0.25, nitrate 0, nitrite, 0, PH 8- 8.2, specific gravity 1.025 and salinity 34. 2 days ago I added to the tank:
1 turbo snail
2 Asterea Snails
2 Scarlet Hermits
and 6 small blue leg hermits
extra shells
Everybody is moving around and munching down like crazy

I drip acclimated them with air tubing over an hour (went much faster and was more start stop the drip drip even with knots and kelly clamps then I wanted) I think I'm going to try IV tubing next time.
Next up I'm going to do a water change tomorrow. Everything look right so far??
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
api tests are noted for false positives on ammonia of up to 0.25...
also as mnetioned above with 50lbs of cured LR that wasn't shipped, you may not get the initial spike at all since it comes established with no die off. and no need to re-establish the bacterial colonies. just make sure that you go slowly with additions so you dont overload your biocapacity.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefkprZ http:///forum/thread/386334/chemistry-in-first-cycle-need-some-advice-please#post_3394213
api tests are noted for false positives on ammonia of up to 0.25...
also as mnetioned above with 50lbs of cured LR that wasn't shipped, you may not get the initial spike at all since it comes established with no die off. and no need to re-establish the bacterial colonies. just make sure that you go slowly with additions so you dont overload your biocapacity.
I 100% agree with you.
HOWEVER...for any new person reading this thread. What hookednewbie did was very risky. The live cured rock saved the day, but he/she didn't know that. Never add anything alive to a new tank until you see an ammonia spike, then 0...a nitrite spike..then 0 and last is a nitrate spike..do a water change and wait another week to be sure you have had a full cycle by doing all three tests. The first two MUST be 0.
I hate to be a nag but I see and hear so many say.."but so and so did it and it was fine"
 
hookednewbie

hookednewbie

Member
You're right flower and honestly it would be irresponsible not to say so, I still have my fingers crossed that it's not going to crash. I'm going to let things go a couple more weeks before adding my first fishy and keep doing regular testing. I'm just guessing the 400 dollars in rocks and sand paid off
. Ok off to do a water change. I've been thinking of fish and things I'm contemplating over the next year or so and may put up a stocking list soon to see what you all think. Thanks for the help everybody
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by hookednewbie http:///forum/thread/386334/chemistry-in-first-cycle-need-some-advice-please#post_3394317
You're right flower and honestly it would be irresponsible not to say so, I still have my fingers crossed that it's not going to crash. I'm going to let things go a couple more weeks before adding my first fishy and keep doing regular testing. I'm just guessing the 400 dollars in rocks and sand paid off
. Ok off to do a water change. I've been thinking of fish and things I'm contemplating over the next year or so and may put up a stocking list soon to see what you all think. Thanks for the help everybody
Hi, I'm glad you understand why I posted what I did.
Live, already cured rock, and live sand are a great way to have things moving really good and hope for no spike. However it isn't a good idea to add anything when you are still seeing any reading on ammonia, that means nitrites have not developed enough to eat up the already present ammonia, and no nitrate reading kind of backs that up, since nitrites poop nitrates. That being said...the few snails and hermits are tiny bacteria builders, not much worse than what is already on the live rock, at least you didn't add a fish.
LOL...now sit back and be patient!
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/386334/chemistry-in-first-cycle-need-some-advice-please#post_3394235
I 100% agree with you.
HOWEVER...for any new person reading this thread. What hookednewbie did was very risky. The live cured rock saved the day, but he/she didn't know that. Never add anything alive to a new tank until you see an ammonia spike, then 0...a nitrite spike..then 0 and last is a nitrate spike..do a water change and wait another week to be sure you have had a full cycle by doing all three tests. The first two MUST be 0.
I hate to be a nag but I see and hear so many say.."but so and so did it and it was fine"
and I 100% agree with you. I definitely could have been more elaborate in my observation of the situation.
As well, or even more so, with my caution to go slowly. Since I failed to stress that since you have not been able to initiate a spike, and therefore don't actually know the limits of your current bio-capacity. Extreme caution must be used in any new additions as well as making sure the current existing bio-filter is fed in enough quantity to keep it from dying back. Since a die off when coupled with new additions could lead to a rather severe spike/crash. When I advise extreme caution I am not saying don't feed.... because that will wipe out a bio-filter, starving it. you need to maintain your ghost feedings (now you can consider them bio-filter and CUC feedings). so your bio-filter doesn't die off while waiting between additions, while still monitoring your parameters closely to be aware of any spike, to prevent a crash.
it sounds more precarious than it is spelled out like that. just take it slow and steady, and maintain. the only thing that happens fast are disasters.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
What test kit are you using? Aquarium Phamaceuticals are useless ammonia test kits in my humble opinion.
 
hookednewbie

hookednewbie

Member
I tested my freshly made salt water today before doing my water change and its exactly the same slightly greenish color on the ammonia results of up to about 0.25 as I have been getting in all the other tests. Can anyone recommend a good testing kit I can change to? Or should I just make 0.25 the new 0, LOL
 
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