Chlorine and Tank Crash

[florida joe]

The danger is that most ammonia products still test ammonia even if it is locked.
I don't understand did you mean to say that once treated you will still read ammonia, if so i understand what you are saying if not then i don't

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3256869
I don't understand did you mean to say that once treated you will still read ammonia, if so i understand what you are saying if not then i don't
I believe he is advising, in code, that people using a Nessler Method Ammonia Test will still read positive levels after using Amquel, Prime, or any other ammonia detoxifier.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3256869
I don't understand did you mean to say that once treated you will still read ammonia, if so i understand what you are saying if not then i don't
Bang has it right only I didn't realize it was in code.
the seachem multitest ammonia test kit measures both locked and free ammonia.::
This kit measures total (NH3 and NH4+) and free ammonia (NH3 only) down to less than 0.05 mg/L and is virtually interference free in marine and fresh water. Free ammonia is the toxic form of ammonia (vs. ionized Ammonia NH4+ which is non-toxic) and thus it is much more important to keep an eye on the level of free ammonia in your system.
... (this kit)
can read levels of free ammonia while using ammonia removal products such as Prime®, Safe™, AmGuard™ and any similar ... products. The other kits (salicylate or Nessler based) determine the total ammonia by raising the pH of the test solution to 12 or greater. At this high pH all ammonia removal products will breakdown and rerelease the ammonia, thus giving you a false ammonia reading.
But that kit is more difficult to use and read. But i have used it in an emergency after I dosed ammonia lock products. In that emergency the API test kit pegged at way over 8ppm. But this kit showed it was almost totally locked up. And three fish I could not get out of the tank lived there for the week+ the ammonia tested that high with no heavy breathing.
That said, in normal usage the standard ammonia test kits are fine.
my .02

 

[florida joe]

Bang has it right only I didn't realize it was in code.
. I think the code that needs to be broken is this. Testing for is not the same as a positive test. You can test for ammonia after a lock up and read ammonia when in fact it is locked in a non toxic state. You state that the danger is that most ammonia products still test ammonia. Well if it’s an ammonia test kit is it not a giving that it tests for ammonia. My point is did you mean to say that you test for ammonia and read it but it it non toxic This of course is if my 8th grade science class served me right

 

[bang guy]

8th grade was the worst five years of my life.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3256912
. I think the code that needs to be broken is this. Testing for is not the same as a positive test. You can test for ammonia after a lock up and read ammonia when in fact it is locked in a non toxic state. You state that the danger is that most ammonia products still test ammonia. Well if it’s an ammonia test kit is it not a giving that it tests for ammonia. My point is did you mean to say that you test for ammonia and read it but it it non toxic This of course is if my 8th grade science class served me right
In my case I had (over) 8ppm ammonia with the api test kit and lost a fish after a few hours with most of the rest dying. I moved most fish to another tank where they recovered in a matter of hours. I then dosed with prime per instructions. The api test kit still tested 8ppm+ for ammonia. But the multitest kit tested 8ppm total ammonia but only .25ppm free ammonia. Three fish I could not get out of the tank survived even with the api test kit still was reporting 8ppm+ ammonia.
A week later I solved the problem and ammonia (either kit) dropped down to .25ppm or less. But in the next few weeks pH dropped down to 7.5 or so. And nitrItes pegged the test kit (5ppm) for a couple of days. Then nitrates went up to 30ppm. Typical cycle except for the very low pH values. Three weeks later the nitrates dropped down and pH rose.
I suspect that in addition to the cycle, the pH dropped because of the Prime locking up oxygen with an attendant rise in carbon dioxide (causing the pH drop).
Please keep in mind this was an extreme case where I accidently added a toxin to the tank. It is the only time I have anything near this happen in tanks balanced out and stabilized with plant life since the late '70's. Definately not normal usual operation.
my .02

 

[mrdc]

Whew! That was a lot of reading since I last left.
Joe, thanks for the words ... it was a nice funeral.
Beth, the topoff water was not straight from the tap. I was making RO water all the time and storing it in empty salt buckets. The water I used for water changes came from the RO unit and I would let the salt mix aerate for 24 hours. The topoff water I used everyday would come out of the stored RO water.
Now I need to re-read this thread again.