Cindy Sheehan
- Thread starter moraymike
- Start date
takia
Member
While I happen to have strong views on this issue, I would also like to direct you to CNN to download the video that has an interview from Sunday on it. She is not for "Just walking away" but a plan to get our guys home safely... I think it is really sad this day in age that the media is not "investigating" the facts before they make people hate this lady who just wants some answers, and a plan. I feel so sorry for her loss, both of her son and the loss she is suffering at the hands of the media. I so admire her courage though!
celacanthr
Active Member
i think that although we have already made a (imho) foolish discession to go to Iraq that we should atleast have a plan to leave not merely a plan to make a plan after we finish it.
sleeper
Member
I'm sure this will make me really unpopular here, but I think removing ourselves from the situation as quickly as possible is the best path, both morally and rationally.
This is because being there is generating far more terrorists than it's catching. It's simple and sounds too easy to be true, but it is.
Also, though I wasn't even alive, most "experts" on Viet Nam often decried peace activists, saying "if we leave now it will be chaos," ignoring that the war, much like this one, already WAS chaos. That said, within a few years the two warring sides had reached detente and now enjoy almost warm relations, without any American involvement.
Just a crazy libertarian point of view!
This is because being there is generating far more terrorists than it's catching. It's simple and sounds too easy to be true, but it is.
Also, though I wasn't even alive, most "experts" on Viet Nam often decried peace activists, saying "if we leave now it will be chaos," ignoring that the war, much like this one, already WAS chaos. That said, within a few years the two warring sides had reached detente and now enjoy almost warm relations, without any American involvement.
Just a crazy libertarian point of view!
celacanthr
Active Member
well i dont think that any body will hate u for expressing an opinion most of the fighting on here is really just playful banter( except for ophiura and moraymike they fight like ophiuroids
and sharks
)
look at this guy>
hes so cute
and sharks
look at this guy>
hot883
Active Member
I agree that we should be there just because of the tyrant that we removed. Yes, it all has a good and bad side to it. I served our country for 20 years in the Marines and I thank God everyday when I wake that I am breathing and that I'm not in the sand box right now. OUR troops are not to blame, they are doing their jobs. This Cindy woman wants to talk with the Commander in Chief. SHE HAS DONE that already when her son died. Sorry for the loss but move on. She is in the mind set now that no matter what the President tells her she will not be happy.
As far as we are creating more Terrorists, let them be stupid and die and blow themselves up and their own people as well. That says alot about the rattical few. I'm not against Iraqi's, Muslum's or the counrty just the a.. holes that continue to slow down the process. Just my $.02
As far as we are creating more Terrorists, let them be stupid and die and blow themselves up and their own people as well. That says alot about the rattical few. I'm not against Iraqi's, Muslum's or the counrty just the a.. holes that continue to slow down the process. Just my $.02
ophiura
Active Member
Thank you for your service, hot883!
NO DOUBT our guys are doing the best possible job. Now lets let them actually do it, IMO. People die in wars. It isn't a pleasant thing. People die on both sides. But hundreds of thousands died without a voice at all in Iraq over the last decades and I think that sometimes wars need to be waged to save future lives even if it costs some in the present.
NO DOUBT our guys are doing the best possible job. Now lets let them actually do it, IMO. People die in wars. It isn't a pleasant thing. People die on both sides. But hundreds of thousands died without a voice at all in Iraq over the last decades and I think that sometimes wars need to be waged to save future lives even if it costs some in the present.
bigarn
Active Member
I happen to know a few Vietnam vets ..... Just a word of advice, Don't ever say that to them . Our guys were young and paid the ultimate price for nothing in that war. What's going to happen in Iraq? When we do leave there's no doubt in my mind the insurgents will just mount a coup and over throw the current government. All those lives lost for what?! If we promised "Shock and awe" we should make due on that promise and save American lives!
Sorry, but this really hits home with me.
Sorry, but this really hits home with me.
mudplayerx
Active Member
Terrorism grew exponentially stronger after Afghanistan defeated the Soviet Union. If we abandon Afghanistan and Iraq, this will be a MAJOR boost for terrorists and will act as a recruiting device of huge proportions. The arab world and the extremists must know that our military cannot be defeated...and they must know that we are willnig to take loses and sacrifice our lives for what we belive in. The moment we waver or pull out is when the terrorists will be emboldened, and we will be fighting them in our streets here in the USA.
fishzen
Member
The truth is, we broke that country now we have to pay for it and try to fix it. Unfortunately we have lost 1800+ men and women, we don't even know how many wounded soldiers are being left with permanent disabilities, that war has caused 25000+ Iraqui deaths, and it's costing us billions of dollars that I am sure would have been better spent hunting the real threat Osama BinLaden.
I am pessimist about the future there, no matter how long we stay there, at the end some radical is going to take control and its going to be a growing place for America haters, have we forgot Afganistan...in the 80's we gave them assistance and weapons to fight against the soviets, after radicals took control what did they do.... harbour Al quaeda(SP)
Lets pray for the safe and sound return of our soldiers. lets history treat this war they way it is to be treated as a big mistake.
I am pessimist about the future there, no matter how long we stay there, at the end some radical is going to take control and its going to be a growing place for America haters, have we forgot Afganistan...in the 80's we gave them assistance and weapons to fight against the soviets, after radicals took control what did they do.... harbour Al quaeda(SP)
Lets pray for the safe and sound return of our soldiers. lets history treat this war they way it is to be treated as a big mistake.
moraymike
Member
Originally Posted by CELACANTHr
well i dont think that any body will hate u for expressing an opinion most of the fighting on here is really just playful banter( except for ophiura and moraymike they fight like ophiuroids
and sharks
)
look at this guy>
hes so cute
LOL... No, no... It's all good, isn't it Ophiura?
Yes, nobody should "hate" anyone for a differing opinion.
In the case of Cindy, she has met with the President already. IMO, I think she's in this for her self. Man, her husband even left her. Does that tell us anything? Maybe... maybe not. Anyway, let's support our guys. They risk their lives every minute they our over there. A divided front here at home will only cause those terrorists to work harder at getting to our guys. They'll actually think they can control public opinion. I say, let's take the fight to them. Let's not wait in our office buildings to be hit again...
well i dont think that any body will hate u for expressing an opinion most of the fighting on here is really just playful banter( except for ophiura and moraymike they fight like ophiuroids
and sharks
look at this guy>
LOL... No, no... It's all good, isn't it Ophiura?
Yes, nobody should "hate" anyone for a differing opinion.
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by bigarn
I happen to know a few Vietnam vets ..... Just a word of advice, Don't ever say that to them . Our guys were young and paid the ultimate price for nothing in that war. Sorry, but this really hits home with me.
When I was in DC in the early 90s, I did a lot of pro troop rallies, spent A LOT of time with Vietnam vets at the wall, and made many long term friends. I very much appreciate their service...I mourn for those that were lost...and I support our troops in the job that they signed up to go and do. And for many, they are willing to sacrifice their lives, in the hopes of saving others and defending this country. Thank God for them.
Vietnam was a disaster because our young men were stabbed in the back by our own government and their inability to let them be soldiers and win. They were abandoned, not given what they needed because of arm chair generals in DC, and then this country turned their back on them when they came home just as we turned our back on the guys who were left behind (forcing soldiers to betray the ultimate soldiers vow of never leaving someone behind). Never again. Never again. As they say "Vietnam, I wasn't there, but I care."
I support our troops in Iraq, and I want them to have EVERY THING THEY NEED to win that war and come home as the heros they are. That does not mean, IMO, some journalist questioning everything they do and asking them loaded questions and giving them the mindset that we don't support them. I think we are tip toeing around a whole lot now, not letting them win, once again. Too PC for sure.
hot883
Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
When I was in DC in the early 90s, I did a lot of pro troop rallies, spent A LOT of time with Vietnam vets at the wall, and made many long term friends. I very much appreciate their service...I mourn for those that were lost...and I support our troops in the job that they signed up to go and do. And for many, they are willing to sacrifice their lives, in the hopes of saving others and defending this country. Thank God for them.
Vietnam was a disaster because our young men were stabbed in the back by our own government and their inability to let them be soldiers and win. They were abandoned, not given what they needed because of arm chair generals in DC, and then this country turned their back on them when they came home just as we turned our back on the guys who were left behind (forcing soldiers to betray the ultimate soldiers vow of never leaving someone behind). Never again. Never again. As they say "Vietnam, I wasn't there, but I care."
I support our troops in Iraq, and I want them to have EVERY THING THEY NEED to win that war and come home as the heros they are. That does not mean, IMO, some journalist questioning everything they do and asking them loaded questions and giving them the mindset that we don't support them. I think we are tip toeing around a whole lot now, not letting them win, once again. Too PC for sure.
Ophiura, thanks for your remarks and support. I love this Country, I was honored to serve her and am continuing to serve her in a different way. (you can see by my public profile) Every Veterens Day, Every Memorial Day etc. I thank my Uncle that served in Vietnam, because like today they just did what they are told. My last three years in the Corps was spent in Hawaii (rough huh!) where I was the Deputy Director and Senior Instructor at the Marine Corps University. One of my 14 classes that I taught was basically on this same topic.
The vast majority of Americans don't care until it impacts someone close or 911 happens. In my humble opinion, they need to broadcast the video of the Twin Towers every morning and night to remind those that forgot what we are trying to achieve there and in other places across the globe.
PPl will have their own opinions and these are mine.
When I was in DC in the early 90s, I did a lot of pro troop rallies, spent A LOT of time with Vietnam vets at the wall, and made many long term friends. I very much appreciate their service...I mourn for those that were lost...and I support our troops in the job that they signed up to go and do. And for many, they are willing to sacrifice their lives, in the hopes of saving others and defending this country. Thank God for them.
Vietnam was a disaster because our young men were stabbed in the back by our own government and their inability to let them be soldiers and win. They were abandoned, not given what they needed because of arm chair generals in DC, and then this country turned their back on them when they came home just as we turned our back on the guys who were left behind (forcing soldiers to betray the ultimate soldiers vow of never leaving someone behind). Never again. Never again. As they say "Vietnam, I wasn't there, but I care."
I support our troops in Iraq, and I want them to have EVERY THING THEY NEED to win that war and come home as the heros they are. That does not mean, IMO, some journalist questioning everything they do and asking them loaded questions and giving them the mindset that we don't support them. I think we are tip toeing around a whole lot now, not letting them win, once again. Too PC for sure.
Ophiura, thanks for your remarks and support. I love this Country, I was honored to serve her and am continuing to serve her in a different way. (you can see by my public profile) Every Veterens Day, Every Memorial Day etc. I thank my Uncle that served in Vietnam, because like today they just did what they are told. My last three years in the Corps was spent in Hawaii (rough huh!) where I was the Deputy Director and Senior Instructor at the Marine Corps University. One of my 14 classes that I taught was basically on this same topic.
The vast majority of Americans don't care until it impacts someone close or 911 happens. In my humble opinion, they need to broadcast the video of the Twin Towers every morning and night to remind those that forgot what we are trying to achieve there and in other places across the globe.
PPl will have their own opinions and these are mine.
celacanthr
Active Member
i believe support the troops and help them, i mean they were given an order thst they are supposed to follow but i believe the one making the order was misguided.
snailheave
Active Member
moraymike
Member
Originally Posted by fishzen
The truth is, we broke that country now we have to pay for it and try to fix it. Unfortunately we have lost 1800+ men and women, we don't even know how many wounded soldiers are being left with permanent disabilities, that war has caused 25000+ Iraqui deaths, and it's costing us billions of dollars that I am sure would have been better spent hunting the real threat Osama BinLaden.
I am pessimist about the future there, no matter how long we stay there, at the end some radical is going to take control and its going to be a growing place for America haters, have we forgot Afganistan...in the 80's we gave them assistance and weapons to fight against the soviets, after radicals took control what did they do.... harbour Al quaeda(SP)
Lets pray for the safe and sound return of our soldiers. lets history treat this war they way it is to be treated as a big mistake.
Good points. However, we did fix Germany and Japan after WWII. Yes, war is always costly, no question about that. I'm grateful for all the young men and women that are serving and have served our country. I'm not going to engage in a debate of if we should or shouldn't have gone into Iraqi. As I said before, I wasn't thrilled about the decision. However, the reality of the situation is that we are there. No sense in debating something that no longer matters. Heck, the last presidential candidate that lost ... what was his name? Anyway, he supported going in.... oh, that's right, back to productive conversation... The culture of hate in that part of the world isn't going away. If we ignore it, they'll bring the fight back to our streets. Again, just my opinion... A mistake? We didn't know who was going to win WWII two years into it. Sounds like you would have surrendered???
The truth is, we broke that country now we have to pay for it and try to fix it. Unfortunately we have lost 1800+ men and women, we don't even know how many wounded soldiers are being left with permanent disabilities, that war has caused 25000+ Iraqui deaths, and it's costing us billions of dollars that I am sure would have been better spent hunting the real threat Osama BinLaden.
I am pessimist about the future there, no matter how long we stay there, at the end some radical is going to take control and its going to be a growing place for America haters, have we forgot Afganistan...in the 80's we gave them assistance and weapons to fight against the soviets, after radicals took control what did they do.... harbour Al quaeda(SP)
Lets pray for the safe and sound return of our soldiers. lets history treat this war they way it is to be treated as a big mistake.
Good points. However, we did fix Germany and Japan after WWII. Yes, war is always costly, no question about that. I'm grateful for all the young men and women that are serving and have served our country. I'm not going to engage in a debate of if we should or shouldn't have gone into Iraqi. As I said before, I wasn't thrilled about the decision. However, the reality of the situation is that we are there. No sense in debating something that no longer matters. Heck, the last presidential candidate that lost ... what was his name? Anyway, he supported going in.... oh, that's right, back to productive conversation... The culture of hate in that part of the world isn't going away. If we ignore it, they'll bring the fight back to our streets. Again, just my opinion... A mistake? We didn't know who was going to win WWII two years into it. Sounds like you would have surrendered???
hot883
Active Member
Originally Posted by MorayMike
Good points. However, we did fix Germany and Japan after WWII. Yes, war is always costly, no question about that. I'm grateful for all the young men and women that are serving and have served our country. I'm not going to engage in a debate of if we should or shouldn't have gone into Iraqi. As I said before, I wasn't thrilled about the decision. However, the reality of the situation is that we are there. No sense in debating something that no longer matters. Heck, the last presidential candidate that lost ... what was his name? Anyway, he supported going in.... oh, that's right, back to productive conversation... The culture of hate in that part of the world isn't going away. If we ignore it, they'll bring the fight back to our streets. Again, just my opinion... A mistake? We didn't know who was going to win WWII two years into it. Sounds like you would have surrendered???
And an AMEN to you Mike. Good points and appreciated,............ by me atleast. (appreciated part)Ha!
Good points. However, we did fix Germany and Japan after WWII. Yes, war is always costly, no question about that. I'm grateful for all the young men and women that are serving and have served our country. I'm not going to engage in a debate of if we should or shouldn't have gone into Iraqi. As I said before, I wasn't thrilled about the decision. However, the reality of the situation is that we are there. No sense in debating something that no longer matters. Heck, the last presidential candidate that lost ... what was his name? Anyway, he supported going in.... oh, that's right, back to productive conversation... The culture of hate in that part of the world isn't going away. If we ignore it, they'll bring the fight back to our streets. Again, just my opinion... A mistake? We didn't know who was going to win WWII two years into it. Sounds like you would have surrendered???
And an AMEN to you Mike. Good points and appreciated,............ by me atleast. (appreciated part)Ha!
fishzen
Member
Originally Posted by MorayMike
Good points. However, we did fix Germany and Japan after WWII. Yes, war is always costly, no question about that. I'm grateful for all the young men and women that are serving and have served our country. I'm not going to engage in a debate of if we should or shouldn't have gone into Iraqi. As I said before, I wasn't thrilled about the decision. However, the reality of the situation is that we are there. No sense in debating something that no longer matters. Heck, the last presidential candidate that lost ... what was his name? Anyway, he supported going in.... oh, that's right, back to productive conversation... The culture of hate in that part of the world isn't going away. If we ignore it, they'll bring the fight back to our streets. Again, just my opinion... A mistake? We didn't know who was going to win WWII two years into it. Sounds like you would have surrendered???
There is a big difference between been attacked and been the attacker. In WWII we were attacked and we responded accordingly, on 9/11 we were attacked and we responded accordingly, there is now freedom in Afghanistan and the Taliban that harbored AlQaeda(SP) is nothing more that a bunch of long bearded freaks on the run. All I’m saying is we are dealing with religious extremist that think this is some kind of holy war and that we are out to destroy Islam, and those extremists are way more dangerous than Japan’s kamikaze that died for their emperor.
Iraq however was attacked by us, our government invented the story about the WMD, and after none of them were found now they do not talk about them anymore, then they explore the 9/11 conection, and none was found, it is all of a sudden a fight for Iraq’s people freedom. I certainly hope we are not getting into the business of liberating all the oppressed countries in the world, because if that is the case the next war is going to be probably in North Korea, or maybe Cuba, perhaps we are going to send marines to every little country in Africa where there is a leader that do not treat their people the way we think people ought to be treated.
Don’t get me wrong I appreciate the courage to put one’s life in the line, and I pray that they all make it out of there safe, no matter how long it takes.
Good points. However, we did fix Germany and Japan after WWII. Yes, war is always costly, no question about that. I'm grateful for all the young men and women that are serving and have served our country. I'm not going to engage in a debate of if we should or shouldn't have gone into Iraqi. As I said before, I wasn't thrilled about the decision. However, the reality of the situation is that we are there. No sense in debating something that no longer matters. Heck, the last presidential candidate that lost ... what was his name? Anyway, he supported going in.... oh, that's right, back to productive conversation... The culture of hate in that part of the world isn't going away. If we ignore it, they'll bring the fight back to our streets. Again, just my opinion... A mistake? We didn't know who was going to win WWII two years into it. Sounds like you would have surrendered???
There is a big difference between been attacked and been the attacker. In WWII we were attacked and we responded accordingly, on 9/11 we were attacked and we responded accordingly, there is now freedom in Afghanistan and the Taliban that harbored AlQaeda(SP) is nothing more that a bunch of long bearded freaks on the run. All I’m saying is we are dealing with religious extremist that think this is some kind of holy war and that we are out to destroy Islam, and those extremists are way more dangerous than Japan’s kamikaze that died for their emperor.
Iraq however was attacked by us, our government invented the story about the WMD, and after none of them were found now they do not talk about them anymore, then they explore the 9/11 conection, and none was found, it is all of a sudden a fight for Iraq’s people freedom. I certainly hope we are not getting into the business of liberating all the oppressed countries in the world, because if that is the case the next war is going to be probably in North Korea, or maybe Cuba, perhaps we are going to send marines to every little country in Africa where there is a leader that do not treat their people the way we think people ought to be treated.
Don’t get me wrong I appreciate the courage to put one’s life in the line, and I pray that they all make it out of there safe, no matter how long it takes.
sleeper
Member
It seems like all too often we use the term "support the troops" to mean "support the commander in chief."
Three of my closest friends are marines (one reserve but he just got back from over there). I pray every day they survive this dogfight. One is my best friend's younger brother. Anoter is my college hallmate. I was saddened by their departures and elated when Andrew came back to work behind the bar with me once again.
I am proud of their efforts and understand completely what they stood, and stand for. But ask my boys who they voted for in '04. It ain't their current boss.
And I think if they're willing to question their own motivations and reasons for being there, then we as Americans (free speech is our first guaranteed right and questioning the government was our first national action) should be doing it as well.
In this case, wanting an American victory with as few casualties as possible is completely compatible with the belief that the "armchair generals" -- including those at the White House and Pentagon -- have completely screwed this one up.
That said, I'm more of a live and let live kinda guy-- you should check out the shark/octopus thing I posted yesterday. THAT battle is a lot less questionable, just cool!
Three of my closest friends are marines (one reserve but he just got back from over there). I pray every day they survive this dogfight. One is my best friend's younger brother. Anoter is my college hallmate. I was saddened by their departures and elated when Andrew came back to work behind the bar with me once again.
I am proud of their efforts and understand completely what they stood, and stand for. But ask my boys who they voted for in '04. It ain't their current boss.
And I think if they're willing to question their own motivations and reasons for being there, then we as Americans (free speech is our first guaranteed right and questioning the government was our first national action) should be doing it as well.
In this case, wanting an American victory with as few casualties as possible is completely compatible with the belief that the "armchair generals" -- including those at the White House and Pentagon -- have completely screwed this one up.
That said, I'm more of a live and let live kinda guy-- you should check out the shark/octopus thing I posted yesterday. THAT battle is a lot less questionable, just cool!