Cindy Sheehan

[mudplayerx]

Iraq was not invaded for weapons of mass destruction. It was not invaded for oil, or to depose Saddam. It was invaded because it is the most geographically strategic country in the entire middle east. As you can see in the below map, Iraq has a central position in the middle east, bordering Turkey, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia.
The arab world was beginning to doubt western supremacy after the USS Cole bombing, the Soviets pulling out of Afghanistan, the trade towers and the pentagon being bombed on September 11th. The arabs were convinced that the west was unwilling to accept casualties and that our will could be somewhat steered in a direction with violence and terrorism.
Toppling two arab nations was needed to demonstrate to the arab world that the west will not tolerate terrorism, and is willing to sacrifice the lives of its soldiers to make this clear. Furthermore, once a democratic base is established in Iraq, the USA will have a central location in the middle east for intelligence gathering and a point where to drop troops should the need arise to attack Iran or any other arab nation.
People tend to foucs on the media's and the president's explanation, and don't look at the big picture.
Here is a great website that offers strategic forcasting: www.stratfor.com

 

[inxsu2]

One of the things that scares me the most is that we are divided from within, while our "enemy" seems to be united in their cause. I fear this could be our decline. Liken it to the "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", if you will. I know that is the extreme. But, while we're trying to kick ass, the enemy is patient and gaining strength and muster from our weaknesses. While I do believe we must finish what we started, I am mortified that our borders continue to be completely wide open. Political correctness will be a thing of the past. If we don't do something now, and the suitcase nuke thing happens, I can't even imagine the great divide over the whole proposition of a military state.
Happy times we are all living in, eh? At least we all have embarked upon a relaxing hobby!

 

[kimc]

The National Geographic channel (TV) is airing a special called Inside 911. It's a two part series and starts Sunday, Aug 21 at 9pm et/pt. Second part on Monday Aug 22. I think we should all watch it to remember why we are over there. No one likes war, and it saddens all of us the lives that are lost... We need to support our country and by supporting our country and our solider's, not one of them will have died in vain. As far as Cindy Sheehan, she had her chance to speak with Pres. Bush... she needs to move on, her son would probably be imbarrased by her behavior... I'm sure he was proud to serve... just my 2 cents.

 

[inxsu2]

Kim,
Wow. Thanks for the "Inside 911" recommendation. Just got done watching it. Quite a sobering series and MUST for those who have forgotten the mission.
Be well.

 

[kimc]

OMGosh, I learned sooo much. Osama Bin Laden is one evil guy.

 

[ferry_007]

I think we need to stop going into countires and brining them "democracy" and "freedom".They need to do it for themeselfs or else they will never really want it.The U.S is great and we need to protect it! Iraq has nothing to do w/ 9/11.If anything we(when i say we,i mean GOV.) had more to do w/ 9/11 than they did.But now the term "you break it you buy it " comes to mind. just my .02
FYI: When they total the casualties of our soldiers,they only count the ones that die in iraq.They dont count the many that die on the way to the hospital or die off there injuries in hospitals.
As for cindy,let her be she is a grieving mother,those of you w/ children should know better.

 

[ophiura]

The "Inside 9/11" series on National Geographic should be MUST viewing for everyone. ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY. I was shaking the first night (how could we have missed it coming?) and in tears last night. Those images need to be shown over and over - I still believe that too. Even then, people were saying this would be a long road...that many Americans wouldn't be able to stay on the path long, that they would forget. And most of us have. My husband, who is Canadian, has an American flag on his car and he asked me last night after the show "where have all the flags gone?" Everyone had one after 9/11 and now no one - or few? I have my yellow ribbons and Navy flag (for my sister) and of course the American flag and there are a few around. But even here in Texas...even here, not as many flags flying. WATCH THAT SHOW.
Bin Laden, the "hero" fighter of the Arab world was really royally ticked off that Saudi Arabia, in the Gulf War, turned to US protection instead of taking Bin Laden's offer of his Afghan fighters (who fought off the mighty Russian army). Really annoyed by that. If people haven't noticed, this is not just violence against the US, it is against many arab nations, Indonesia, Hindus, Christians, most certainly Jews. Look at the BIG PICTURE. The stated desire, quite openly, to see an Islamic flag flying over Great Britain and much of Europe and certainly here. If you are stuck thinking this is just "hey they want us out of Iraq" then there is so much out there to learn. Frankly it scares the crap out of me. I hope we are at least better prepared to ACT (truly that 9/11 show was sobering) even if we can't prevent anything...but I think taking a very strong, very fierce, very hard (NOT PC!!!) line is exceedingly important. Let our guys fight this war like they've been trained to do!!!!!!!!! WIN IT!!!!

 

[beth]

While Iraq was no friend to the USA, Saddam is not bin Ladin. We lost focus on the terrorists by running to Iraq, especially after the whole WMB thing was found to be bogus. Unfortunately, we have more reason to be in Iraq now than when we stampeded over there. I would not want to sacrifice my son to that half-baked war. Its a shame that Bush puts more value in the non-military experienced Rumsfeild than his own secretary of state, a proven, experienced, successful war general [Powell].
At this point, only time will tell if it was worth going to Iraq. Hopefully it will be worth it and prove to be valuable to Western Civilization. Don't get me wrong, I would like nothing better than to bring civilization to the Middle East.
Cindy Sheehan has the right to protest. EVERY AMERICAN has that right. Who should protest more than a mother who lost her son? However, the media is lapping it up and making a 3-ring circus out of it. There is no media in this country that just reports news, wo advancing their own political agenda. Sad state of affairs, if you ask me.

 

[mudplayerx]

Originally Posted by Ferry_007
I think we need to stop going into countires and brining them "democracy" and "freedom".They need to do it for themeselfs or else they will never really want it.
They can't do it for themselves if they are under the thumb of tyrants, dictators, fanatics, and terrorists. Also, I stand by my belief that Iraq is just a small piece of the military's plan. It was invaded to provide a base for intelligence gathering and deploying troops in the middle east.
While it is great that we overthrew Saddam in the process and liberated a people, I don't think that was the main goal. People tend to veiw the year 2005 as some sort of technically advanced era where everyone is enlightened and theres no way another WWI or WWII could happen.
Wake up people! The only reason we have not been invaded is because we protect our interests. The enemies of old are still our enemies. You think for one moment Japan wouldn't pull another Pearl Harbor if we did something to badly hurt their economy, or boycotted their goods? You think the Germans are now immune to clever brainwashing by dictators if their economy hits a depression? If we stopped defending Isreal or Turkey or Saudi Arabia, you think that for one moment the mullahs of Iran and other backwards arab nations wouldn't attack them?
The chinese RIGHT NOW are scheming how to take over their neighbors without upsetting the rest of the world. The arab fanatics are RIGHT NOW testing our security measures and trying to establish sleeper cells to be activated to cause another 9/11.
PLEASE click this link and watch the short film BLOOD OF HEROES
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

 

[beth]

Well, I do know that "saving those poor people in Iraq" was not the motive. That was never even the stated motive for going in [until WMB fell thru]. However, if there is some grand scheme as you suggest, then, that would be ok with me. I'm pretty tired of living under fire by "terrorist" who are essentially as backward as it gets. Of course controling oil fields may have something to do with IRAQ, which is ok by me as well.

 

[kimc]

Mudplayerx, Thanks for sharing the video. For everyone who missed Inside 911, please take a look at the video. God Bless America.

 

[weaponusmc]

I for one support our Commander and Chief on this issue, I've been to the big sand box 3 times sense 90' 91'. Unfortunatly I'm about to be medicaly retired with a spinal desiese that I might have got while serving durring desert storm. I dont regret it one bit and would do it all over again. The only problem I have with this whole affair is, it should have been finished back in 1991! Everyone that was with me would have rather stayed and finished then to have to go back. As far as our President goes, much better him than the other choice. But thats just my oppinion. Semper Fi

 

[beth]

WeaponUSMC, let me say thank you for your service to your country. Sorry to hear that you've incurred permanent injuries.
I agree, it would have been better to finish the job in 91 rather than leaving it half undone. I think that too has something to do with why we are there again now. I would have rather finished off Saddam then, so that we could have concentrated on the terrorist fulltime now.

 

[ophiura]

I agree should have been done then...and we also shouldn't have allowed several other small scale attacks to go unanswered. The Russians gave up, and made Bin Laden a heroic figure. We have sent similar messages. No one fights a war like the gulf war without the ultimate intent of taking out the opposition...not just driving them back, IMO. Should have been done then. Sent a bad message.
WeaponUSMC - I also thank you for your service to the country. In those days I was out doing pro-troop demonstrations in front of the white house every day (oh to be young and in university in DC again....or in Crawford Texas now...)Was such a great thrill to be there with Vietnam vets who were there to make sure what happened to them didn't happen again! We had bus loads of guys back from the war with injuries - mostly minor thank God but they were brought by us so we could give a good welcome home. Such a great honor to meet so many heros I wish you all the best!!!

 

[weaponusmc]

Thanks ya'll, speaking of driving the returning vets by you. On our return trip home from the gulf war our plane broke down and were delayed in NAS siginella (sp) Sicily. But after that flew into Main, OMG what a welcome home we got. We were supposedly the last Marine unit to come home and someone in the city heard a rumor that we were flying in late. We got some welcome home, it was much better then the welcome home we recieved when we flew into MCAS Beaufort SC. about 100 people and it broke up after about 10 minutes. But it was still a great feeling to come home even though I had walked past my Mother, Brother and sister and there families without any of them recognizing me ( had very long hair, bangs down below my nostrils) and mother sitting there drunk and smoking (she doesnt drink nor smoke lol). But on the brighter side, here is a picture of my little girl and me right after I returned from Iraqi Freedom, just got released from the plane and this picture covered the whole front page of our base newspaper.

 

[ophiura]

LOL what a beauty!! Great photo!!!
LOL - you faired better than some guys we "attacked" at the airport. They ended up covered in yellow balloons and ribbons...but they were mostly Army you know.

LOL

Still I imagine the warm welcome and hugs from total strangers wasn't so bad

 

[darth tang]

I think we need to stop going into countires and brining them "democracy" and "freedom".They need to do it for themeselfs or else they will never really want it.
I sincerely wish they taught history better in school, or people would remember history better. Statements like prove the individual has no idea how our own freedom was won. They assume the entire group of American colonies rose up and fought. That wasn't true.
During the revolutionary war, 1/3 of our country wanted to fight, 1/3 didn't, and 1/3 didn't care. Gee, sounds like Iraq. Now, we didn't win our freedom by ourselves. Why were supplied, trained, aided, and allied with the French. The FOUGHT battles for us and with us. Without them, we would have lost and not formed a new country separate from England.
So tell me again about countries doing it themselves without outside aid, help, assist, ETC......and how we shouldn't assist........we were assisted.
Thanks to all those that have posted for their service. I myself was an army brat, so I have some insight into what your families are also dealing with. I thank them as well.

 

[sleeper]

But wouldn't you then argue, Darth, that it makes the most sense to have acquired the aid of the rest of the world in doing this?
If the help of France was so important to our own struggle (and the Civil War, and the War of 1812, and WWI....) then why was it so meaningless now?
The last time we went it alone, in Viet Nam, we lost, and bad. I don;t believe this war was necessarily a failure of American morality. But it's very easy to see, in fact, I think it has gone beyond the realm of opinion at this point, that the execution of the war my its leaders was a failure at every level.

 

[weaponusmc]

We didnt fight Viet Nam alone, We did have help from the Koreans, Aussies, Loatians, Cambodians, Montanards. And North Viet Nam had help from China and Russia. Its really no surprise to me that most of America pipes in without full knowledge of what actually happens or happened. But I do strongly suggest that people should know the facts befor they do. Military history isnt taught right in the school system due to bleeding hearts and such. The military isnt allowed to train there troops right in boot camp due to MOA (mothers of America) and fear of that little phone call to your Gov rep. Its no wonder to me that we cannot fight a war right. Many things in this country need to change when dealing with the military to let us do our job right and it starts off with proper education in the school systems, then let our drill instructors train our recruits the proper way (yes sometimes pain and cursing are involved) and finaly keep politics and the puplic eye out of war........Bill
The road to the battlefield is littered with the dead bodies of first and second lieutenants who didnt listen to there NCO's

 

[darth tang]

But wouldn't you then argue, Darth, that it makes the most sense to have acquired the aid of the rest of the world in doing this?
We tried, they wanted nothing to do with it. That was their choice. We asked, they said no. So because another country said no we shouldn't have continued is what you are saying. During our own revolution we sent emmisarries to Spain, Italy, Germany, and a few other countries. Only France agreed. Basically you are saying France was wrong to aid us because the rest of the countries our revolution for change petitioned said no.
Editted to add I am glad you are thankful towards the 30 some odd countries that contribute to this war with us, in many different ways. I find it funny just because Russia, France, Germany, and Spain aren't helping we are alone.
I wonder how England would feel about your view and Australia. Just to name a couple.