Confused about Skimmers

[2quills]

Jstdv8 the picture I posted was of Floyd Turbos scrubber. Similar design to the SM 100. The guy seems to be a rather objective type of fellow. Yes mos folks will not see that type of growth unless your mission is to see if the hype behind what scrubbers are capable of is real or not.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/20#post_3433299
The algae growth is impressive, and those pics represent the amount of growth you get weekly. Also does the elimination of algae in your DT inhibit the keeping of omnivores and herbivores ?
I don't know who you are directing this question to...
Not that I've noticed. detrivores will almost always snack on decomposing fish food, while the herbivores get a variety of algaes from mixed foods, lettuce and other sources. Also, an algae scrubber can feed your herbivores. You basically clean your algae scrubber, and dry the algae out completely and then feed it like you would nori to your herbivore. It's more nutritious than nori too, and cheaper.

 

[florida joe]

I have to apologize for not making my post understandable. The point I was trying to make was in reference to snakes quote below. I was trying to say that water need not be water falling over the screen and can in fact be beneficial if it is irregular
As far as eliminating algae from your tank and supplementing it with introduced food you are then eliminating the food pattern of constantly grazing fish such as tangs
Quote:
Oh, and also in the first pic of his algae scrubber actually running, you can see that the water is not flowing down the screen in a waterfall, it's irregular and not enough. The irregularity was caused by the strip that was cut in the PVC is not straight enough

 

[jstdv8]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/20#post_3433297
Does yours always grow such dark green algae? The lights that I use, at 4" produces that really bright green algae you can see in the above post. When I was reading through the scrubber threads, some argued that the bright green algae was better for nutrient export. Can you post your water parameters??
I havn't checked my phos and trates in a long time LOL. I'll be back in a bit.

 

[jstdv8]

I feed my homemade food that has nori in it and the tang loves it. He still bounces around grazing although I don't see anything that he's pecking at. I do feed a real nori sheet once in a while as well but he really doesn't go after it too much.
My emerald crab did have a cacker quite some time ago and that may have to do with the lack of algae for it to eat, not sure.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433314
I have to apologize for not making my post understandable. The point I was trying to make was in reference to snakes quote below. I was trying to say that water need not be water falling over the screen and can in fact be beneficial if it is irregular
As far as eliminating algae from your tank and supplementing it with introduced food you are then eliminating the food pattern of constantly grazing fish such as tangs
As far as I know, no water, no flow, no algae. If you look at the pic in that thread, more than half the screen has no water flowing down it at all. No water, no algae, right? I don't agree that irregular flow patters could help algae grow faster, however. So far, a constant water flow, flowing across the rough screen evenly on both sides, produces the best results. Herbivores and omnivores will constantly graze upon rocks regardless if there is anything or not. When I clean a scrubber and wash it with tap and put it back on the tank, there are some algae pieces that do get loose and end up in the display tank which herbivores snack on. Drying out the hair algae from the scrubber and feeding it to the fish in the display tank provides a much more nutritious source of food then nori, which many people feed their tangs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstdv8 http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433319
I havn't checked my phos and trates in a long time LOL. I'll be back in a bit.
Thanks buddy! I appreciate that.

 

[jstdv8]

ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all untraceable, mag 1100 (first time doing this test, so I hope I did it right) Calcium 400, PH 7.8 not sure why this is low atm, salt .026 a bit higher than I like temp is 80 degrees. Phos is also undetectable
I think the reason its dark as it is now is because of the lights being about 4-5 months old, should have changed them out a bit ago. Mine has never been as bright as yours is though, good stuff.
I also don't have much in the way of fish (just a medium sized clown, a small six line and a small- med yellow tang) so I wonder if the lack of fish poop compared to the volume of water might have anything to do with coloring. I feed 2x 1"x1" cubes of my homemade food per day and sometimes I throw in some granuals or ammo chips so people can watch them eat.
I never really worry about overfeeding anymore. I've feed as much as 5 cubes at a time for a week before and didn't see a spike in any parameters.
My bristleworms love me LOL

 

[snakeblitz33]

2Quills, Spanko and I are currently debating the ability of scrubbers using alkalinity when no CO2 is present. Basically, because it is so efficient, it strips your water of useable CO2, and it has to use a bicarbonate to continue growth and life, so it uses alkalinity. The reason why your pH may be low is because your scrubber is using alkalinity and it is lowering the buffering capacity of your water. That could be why your pH is low. Then again, since I've been dosing kalkwasser in the 110g, I haven't noticed a calcium to alkalinity imbalance so far.

 

[2quills]

Wow we pretty much stomped all over the op's thread, didn't we? He's gonna come back one day and say WT%?
Jstdv8: Typically the dark growth I believe means excessive nutrients, meaning not enough light to produce green growth. And typically the yellow growth is the oposite, too much light and not enough nutrients and or flow. Probably time for new bulbs would be my guess as well. And or increase the wattage. Snake has been fertilizing his scrubber that's why it looks so fluffy and green. That's what dosing minerals and iron will do for ya.
Snake: I believe some of the information that I was reading in those studies was indicating that algae utilizes bicarbonate regardless of C02 levels. However in the event that C02 levels are too low it will consume the bicarbonate at a much faster rate in order to get inorganic carbon. Thus can lower the your systems buffering capabilities. Algae utilizes the inorganic carbon out of the C02 in order to develop it's bio mass. What is left after that process then becomes o2 (oxygen).

 

[florida joe]

First let me say that I am in no way against scrubbers. Now, don’t know what pic you are looking at that can determine If water is flowing over the entire screen or not. But if we go with your assessment of no water no algae how you explain the beginning grow which covers almost the entire screen? What I cannot get my head around is how much algae is grown in such a short period of time. Let’s go to post number 32, Jdsdv8 you are harvesting this much algae, from a 120 gallon tank that only has as you state “ just a medium sized clown, a small six line and a small- med yellow tang”? Where are all of these nutrients coming from to feed such growth? Snake I direct you attention to post 37 are you saying that you are maintaining this tank for someone? You state that this tank is 110g and as per your profile you only have a 20 gallon tank
Quote:
Herbivores and omnivores will constantly graze upon rocks regardless if there is anything or not.

You have to excuse my lack of intelligence but I was assuming the word grazing means as is defined in the dictionary as “Grazing generally describes a type of feeding”so i guess we call this
Phantom grazing
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433325
As far as I know, no water, no flow, no algae. If you look at the pic in that thread, more than half the screen has no water flowing down it at all. No water, no algae, right? I don't agree that irregular flow patters could help algae grow faster, however. So far, a constant water flow, flowing across the rough screen evenly on both sides, produces the best results. Herbivores and omnivores will constantly graze upon rocks regardless if there is anything or not. When I clean a scrubber and wash it with tap and put it back on the tank, there are some algae pieces that do get loose and end up in the display tank which herbivores snack on. Drying out the hair algae from the scrubber and feeding it to the fish in the display tank provides a much more nutritious source of food then nori, which many people feed their tangs.
Thanks buddy! I appreciate that.

 

[jstdv8]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433380
First let me say that I am in no way against scrubbers. Now, don’t know what pic you are looking at that can determine If water is flowing over the entire screen or not. But if we go with your assessment of no water no algae how you explain the beginning grow which covers almost the entire screen? What I cannot get my head around is how much algae is grown in such a short period of time. Let’s go to post number 32, Jdsdv8 you are harvesting this much algae, from a 120 gallon tank that only has as you state “ just a medium sized clown, a small six line and a small- med yellow tang”? Where are all of these nutrients coming from to feed such growth? Snake I direct you attention to post 37 are you saying that you are maintaining this tank for someone? You state that this tank is 110g and as per your profile you only have a 20 gallon tank
I wasn't getting very good growth on my screen at first, when I first set it up because I had a ton of algae in the DT, it was competing against the skimmer and the cheato so SantaMonica told me to feed more. I did and the screen grew in sweet. So sweet in fact that it outdid the algae in the DT and over about 2 months time completely got rid of it and killed off the cheato too. I got the numbers to where they should be and took the skimmer offline as well. And then I got to reading more and found that the excess food gets broken down and broken down until its small enough for the corals to consume so I stopped feeding the corals as well and just feed extra fish food. I don't see any reason to change now as everything is working perfectly and my corals are doing great. The food I make only costs about 10 bucks for a 6 month supply, so I see no downside to overfeeding the fish if everything else can get a share once it's broken down. The nutrients are coming from the extra food would be my best guess. The only other thing I add to the tank is a water change. I was doing 10% a week but started slipping on that over the summer and now I do about 15% a month. The calcium is staying reasonably high so I don't see much reason to change that at this point either.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433358
Wow we pretty much stomped all over the op's thread, didn't we? Yep. He's gonna come back one day and say WT%?
Jstdv8: Typically the dark growth I believe means excessive nutrients, meaning not enough light to produce green growth. And typically the yellow growth is the oposite, too much light and not enough nutrients and or flow. Probably time for new bulbs would be my guess as well. And or increase the wattage. Snake has been fertilizing his scrubber that's why it looks so fluffy and green. That's what dosing minerals and iron will do for ya. Yeah, I dose Kent's Essentials. It's been working really well, and it's making the coralline grow very quickly too.
Snake: I believe some of the information that I was reading in those studies was indicating that algae utilizes bicarbonate regardless of C02 levels. However in the event that C02 levels are too low it will consume the bicarbonate at a much faster rate in order to get inorganic carbon. Thus can lower the your systems buffering capabilities. Algae utilizes the inorganic carbon out of the C02 in order to develop it's bio mass. What is left after that process then becomes o2 (oxygen). Makes more sense than the other way. Thanks for that explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433380
First let me say that I am in no way against scrubbers. YAY! lol, I know you aren't, but it's fun to debate, isn't it?? Now, don’t know what pic you are looking at that can determine If water is flowing over the entire screen or not. But if we go with your assessment of no water no algae how you explain the beginning grow which covers almost the entire screen? Eh? Could you explain this thought in more detail. I don't quite understand the question. Thanks. What I cannot get my head around is how much algae is grown in such a short period of time. To my knowledge, test kits only read the levels of (I can't remember which) organic or inorganic nitrate and phosphate. It doesn't read the other half of it. So, by growing algae, you are seeing both inorganic and organic nitrate and phosphate being grown on the screen. If that makes sense? I can see if I can find a link to Eric Borneman's article on "Reef Food" for a better explanation if you want. Let’s go to post number 32, Jdsdv8 you are harvesting this much algae, from a 120 gallon tank that only has as you state “ just a medium sized clown, a small six line and a small- med yellow tang”? Where are all of these nutrients coming from to feed such growth? Snake I direct your attention to post 37 are you saying that you are maintaining this tank for someone? You state that this tank is 110g and as per your profile you only have a 20 gallon tank. Yes, I am maintaining a 110g tank for a client. If you want to do a search, I have a thread of it named "progress shots for 110g show tank".
You have to excuse my lack of intelligence but I was assuming the word grazing means as is defined in the dictionary as “Grazing generally describes a type of feeding”so i guess we call this
Phantom grazing Yep. Nice catch. Phantom grazing. I highly doubt that phantom grazing or not having enough algae in the tank to graze on is detrimental to the health of the fish. But, this is my opinion, and I am definitely not a fish expert.
What did you mean by "Thanks buddy! I appreciate that!"? I hope I didn't insult your intelligence or anything. I was just trying to convey information - not insult your intelligence. I hope you didn't take anything I've said as rude or offensive.

 

[florida joe]

Oh now I understand, you had an algae problem due to high nitrates you assumed. You then decided to employ a turf scrubber to deal with the nitrates. The scrubber was not getting good growth because you felt that it was getting out competed by the algae in your DT even though it was getting the first shot at nutrient water via the flow over the screen. So you then were told to feed more, introducing more organics to further increase your nitrates. Now with all this added” food” you were able to grow enough algae on the screen to out compete the tank (the screen was getting nutrient water constantly as opposed to the algae in your DT.)Now on to the corals, you are maintaining corals that need target feeding I assume by your post. You feel that it is wiser to feed extra fish food in the hopes that your fish will not eat it and it will degrade to the point where it will be small enough for your corals to eat? And as your state you see no down side to over feed fish.
So the bottom line if I understand this right is to increase the bio load to feed the screen to decrees the high nitrates that cause the algae to grow in your tank. umm call me crazy but and this is just off the top of my head what if you addressed the initial reason for the algae growth in your tank which may have been high nutrients in the first place.

 

[meowzer]

HEY SETH....That green hurts my eyes therefore I can not read it

 

[snakeblitz33]

I'll edit it to blue. Thanks.,

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433391
I'll edit it to blue. Thanks.,
Much better,.....thank you

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433389
So the bottom line if I understand this right is to increase the bio load to feed the screen to decrees the high nitrates that cause the algae to grow in your tank. umm call me crazy but and this is just off the top of my head what if you addressed the initial reason for the algae growth in your tank which may have been high nutrients in the first place.
That's the way to deal with algae if you already have problems in your display tank and you are employing the use of a scrubber. It's simply a solution to a problem.
Of course, before you develop algae in your display tank, you should be employing basic husbandry techniques to your aquarium to prevent algae outbreaks to begin with.
Different solutions for different problems.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Meowzer - Now I know how to get something past you.

 

[florida joe]

My good friend I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I have some knowledge on keeping a population of tangs. (One yellow two hippos and a Kole) in my tank. I believe without a doubt that the reason I can do so it the ability of presenting them with the most natural environment I can. That environment consists of an abundance of live rock with algae growth for them to graze on. It IMO keeps them busy and out of conflicts with one and other
Quote:
I highly doubt that phantom grazing or not having enough algae in the tank to graze on is detrimental to the health of the fish

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/388866/confused-about-skimmers/40#post_3433396
My good friend I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I have some knowledge on keeping a population of tangs. (One yellow two hippos and a Kole) in my tank. I believe without a doubt that the reason I can do so it the ability of presenting them with the most natural environment I can. That environment consists of an abundance of live rock with algae growth for them to graze on. It IMO keeps them busy and out of conflicts with one and other
Sure, sure! We can't agree on everything! But, I will heed your advice and think about it for myself a little while. Maybe experiment here and there as time goes on. Thank you for this.