Converting Freshwater to saltwater and seeding live rock

[bigtankbigfish]

I have a 75 gallon cichlid tank and been slowing selling off the fish covert to fowlr. I have 150 pounds of dead live rock (once was live in salt, then bleached, now in freshwater). How much live rock will I need to buy in order to seed the dead rock I already have. And How long will that take before that cycle completes.
Also, my substate is currently standard sand. Can I just add a bag or 2 of argonite and will that seed the sand? Or would scrapping all the sand together and just getting all new argonite be easier ( though costly)?
One more question, any suggestions on a good protein skimmer that hangs on the back and can handle 100 gallons? Do they even exist? I dont have a sump, my filtration is a fluval 405 and 305.

 

[jdl]

I have a 75 gallon cichlid tank and been slowing selling off the fish covert to fowlr. I have 150 pounds of dead live rock (once was live in salt, then bleached, now in freshwater). How much live rock will I need to buy in order to seed the dead rock I already have. And How long will that take before that cycle completes.
You dont need to buy any. However, i would buy maybe 10lbs-25lbs to seed it. How long a cycle takes is a measurement impossible to measure, but it will go faster the more you buy.
Also, my substate is currently standard sand. Can I just add a bag or 2 of argonite and will that seed the sand? Or would scrapping all the sand together and just getting all new argonite be easier ( though costly)?
I would get all new argonite. (it isnt costly). You can find caribsea 40lb bags for $26
One more question, any suggestions on a good protein skimmer that hangs on the back and can handle 100 gallons? Do they even exist? I dont have a sump, my filtration is a fluval 405 and 305.
not sure about your skimmer, but i would get a sump. Makes life easier and no ugly heaters in your tank.

 

[bigtankbigfish]

I have a 75 gallon cichlid tank and been slowing selling off the fish covert to fowlr. I have 150 pounds of dead live rock (once was live in salt, then bleached, now in freshwater). How much live rock will I need to buy in order to seed the dead rock I already have. And How long will that take before that cycle completes.
You dont need to buy any. However, i would buy maybe 10lbs-25lbs to seed it. How long a cycle takes is a measurement impossible to measure, but it will go faster the more you buy.
Thats what i was thinking. It shouldnt take too long to cycle though right because the rock is alreay dead there wont be any more die off. It will jus be new bacteria generating.
Quote:
Also, my substate is currently standard sand. Can I just add a bag or 2 of argonite and will that seed the sand? Or would scrapping all the sand together and just getting all new argonite be easier ( though costly)?
I would get all new argonite. (it isnt costly). You can find caribsea 40lb bags for $26
Will do.
Quote:
One more question, any suggestions on a good protein skimmer that hangs on the back and can handle 100 gallons? Do they even exist? I dont have a sump, my filtration is a fluval 405 and 305.
not sure about your skimmer, but i would get a sump. Makes life easier and no ugly heaters in your tank.
I dont think I need a sump. Plus my stand isnt setup for it. 2 canister comined handle more than double the tank size, plus weekly changes should be good. I just want a skimmer that hangs on the top for an added boost. I want to keep about 4 or 5 small to medium size fish in my tank.

 

[crypt keeper]

IMO you are going to end up with water qaulity issues for a while. You will have minimal biological filtration which is the best. On top of it your canister filters will harbor waste and keep trates up. You will need to do large water changes weekly until your rock is seeded. The rock will take months. I would buy all new sand and sell off 50 pounds of the dead rock and buy 50 pounds of live rock to help speed up the process. Personally you are trying to do it cheap as possible which I can respect but certain things you shouldnt cut corners on. A 20 gallon sump with a fuge will work better than those filters. You will have to clean those things out twice a month. Nobody wants to do that.

 

[life~reefer]

Originally Posted by crypt keeper
http:///forum/post/3054359
IMO you are going to end with water qaulity issues for a while. You will have minimal biological filtration which is the best. On top of it your canister filters will harbor waste and keep trates upm You will need to do large water changes weekly until your rock is seeded. The rock will take months. I would buy all new sand and sell off 50 pounds of the dead rock and buy 50 pounds of live rock to help speed up the process. Personally you are trying to do it cheap as possible which I can respect but certain things you shouldnt cut corners on. A 20 gallon sump with a fuge will work better than those filters. You will have to clean those things out twice a month. Nobody wants to do that.

 

[ca161406]

Originally Posted by crypt keeper
http:///forum/post/3054359
IMO you are going to end up with water qaulity issues for a while. You will have minimal biological filtration which is the best. On top of it your canister filters will harbor waste and keep trates up. You will need to do large water changes weekly until your rock is seeded. The rock will take months. I would buy all new sand and sell off 50 pounds of the dead rock and buy 50 pounds of live rock to help speed up the process. Personally you are trying to do it cheap as possible which I can respect but certain things you shouldnt cut corners on. A 20 gallon sump with a fuge will work better than those filters. You will have to clean those things out twice a month. Nobody wants to do that.

20gal sump.
look at the octopus HOB skimmers
and get like 15lbs of LR, it will introduce worms, pods, algaes, and diff good bacteria. imo that would be the best thing to do

 

[vinnyraptor]

1 or 2 nice pieces of LR is plenty. make sure you clean out those canisters really good and get a high quality skimmer. if you plan on using the sand that is in with the cichlids now you better rinse it really well. you can add a few lb.s of live sand to get it going or better yet if you know anyone with an established tank ask for a few cups of there sand.
you'll be fine on filtration as long as you get a good skimmer and provide plenty of flow. good luck!

 

[unleashed]

you can purchase an octopus HOB skimmer or CPR backpak skimmer these are very effective skimmers if you have no plans on using a sump.. also skimmer is optional if your not going to have corals in the tank.. however if you plan on keeping any type of corals in the future I do recommend at least a HOB type.. avoid the skilter filter its a useless product for skimming.

 

[bigtankbigfish]

thank you everyone for your ideas, Got the tank up and running right now.
I have roughly 140 pounds of dead live rock, 30 pounds of live rock (15 new 15 from my reef tank) and 80 pounds of new argonite(60 black 20 white). ***** had the argonite for 30 dollars a bag but had an old special tag that said 40 percent off each if you buy 3 or more. It was expired but the manager had to honor it!. I did not keep any sand from the cichlids. Boy doed that black argonite cloud up the water at first or what.
Hardware set up.
fluval 405 305.
Koralia 4
Koralia 2
seaclone 100 <-- Cheap I know but it hangs on and it was 90 dollars and supposed to handle 100gal. I wont have any corals and not a big bioload.
I also added some ceramic pieces from the filter on my reef tank.
so how long before 1st water change and how long before ghost feeding and how long before i should turn on the skimmer? I got my test kit but havent bothered since the water only been circulating for a day

 

[vinnyraptor]

dont bother doing water changes unless your Ammo gets deadly high. wait 4 days then start testing every other day or so. if you already have a reef then you know what to do...

 

[crypt keeper]

do you have any filter media from your reef tank by any chance at all? I ghost feed my tanks the first few days./ Drop in two large uncooked shrimp and let them just melt away.

 

[bigtankbigfish]

yeah, I took the ceramic ring things out of the reef tank and put them in the media basket on one of the filters. I was gonna take some of th sand too and mix it with mine but I just bought all new argonite anyway.
Why did some guy earlier in the post say I wont have any biological filtration? Once all the rock is live it will be close to 200 pounds in a 75 with a ton of flow in all directions, im buying 10 more pounds 2mro. I dont even have a sump on my reef tank and thats been up for 3 years, 2 with me and 1 with the previous owner. I use Ro/di for everything, water changes every sunday, empty the canister every other week. I think my fowlr will be fine with the hardware I have now.

 

[crypt keeper]

15 pounds of live rock in a 75 gallon tank isnt much biological filtration. The dead rock is just that dead. 200 pound sin a 75 IMO is a lot. Almost too much.
This is my 75. I have about 80 pounds. The pieces are big and heavy. I have about 80 pound slive sand. Sump with a fuge and skimmer. My trates are at 0. My water qaulity is pristine. Fish have a ton of swimming room and hiding spots.

side view

 

[bigtankbigfish]

well theres about 30 live in there now and 40 by end of day. I know thats not enough I was refering to when the dead rock becomes live again I will have plenty of biological. Close to 200 pounds. I dont think thats too much if you have the flow. That would be too much if the water had dead spots but i arranged so the koralia 4 creates a swirling effect behind the rocks pushing that water to the front.

 

[bigtankbigfish]

my tank looks like yours but I have a lot more rock, but all my pieces are smaller than the ones you have. Those are some monsters. I arranged along back wall like you but I little further off the wall. I got the koralia 4 blasting water behing the rock..
I used to stack them tight against the wall in my reef tank but I was always getting cyano back there because there was no movement. No I usually leave a gap for flow.
Adding new live rock later and gonna jump start with a dead shrimp today. Test is few more days.

 

[bigtankbigfish]

so, I bought about 4 pounds of rubble live rock and loaded up my canister filters with it and ceramic rings and a little fresh carbon. Also took another piece (4-5lb) from reef tank and put in tank.
Tested last night,
salinity 023
ammonia .25
trite 0
trate 0
ph 7.8
I guess im on the right track here. Im wondering if there will even be an ammonia spike with the new live argonite and all the live rock ive added recently.
PS i never did add the shrimp. Im just gonna be patient with this tank. Besides im waiting 4 the piece to my skimmer my dog ate to come in at LFS. Brand new out the box my little devil pitbull chewed the damn J-tube right up.
Ph is a little low though right? SHould I just wait longer or try to correct? Using RODI alreay
ALso, Thumbs up for the black argonite it looks great. WIll try to get pics up soon. and pics of reef tank too.

 

[crypt keeper]

you are helping establish the good bacteria needed. It will help cycle the tank quicker. Did you start ghost feeding it?

 

[bigtankbigfish]

no, i was gonna do the dead shrimp yesterday but I just added more rock and lets everything mix up and settle some more. Does it have to be a shrimp or can I just throw some shrimp pellets in there.
also whats up with ph my reef is 8.2 this is 7.8

 

[crypt keeper]

i used two pieces of shrimp. My tank cycled in 3 weeks also. Trites went to about 4 and the ammonia went to about 3 then they came down fast. PH no idea.

 

[bigtankbigfish]

Welp forget about the 75 for now, bigger issues.
for first time in 2 years i have ich outbreak in reef tank. Looks like tiny little white fleas on the glass and a couple dots on the coral beauty.
Damn Coral beauty had a white thing on his lip when i got him a week ago... thought it wasnt ich, must have been.
Now, my understanding is that ich cannot survive without fish correct? I have a cycled 10 gallon with live rock, heater and powerhead already going with a clarkii in it. Can i just add the other clarkii to that and put the coral beauty in a bucket for the time being? Or do u think the clarkii is infected too...... I know that 3 fish in a 10 is a stretch but I need to start hypo today. SHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!