Cyano question/theory

uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
I've read a fair amount about it, and the prevailing theory seems to be that it's an opportunistic critter that establishes itself where nitrifying bacteria are not already present or have been wiped out.
I'm dealing with a small outbreak at the moment and am curious. What I've noticed is that I'm getting it on my sand, which was dead aragonite when I started the tank. My live rock has absolutely none on it. Some of the (dead) base rock I used has a little bit, but it's not spreading.
My assumption is, that because the rock has better flow around it, and the sand has little to none, that's why the Cyanobacteria have established themselves on the sand.
I'm beginning to think that, sorta contrary to popular opinion, my best course of action is to stir the sand up (at the risk of spreading it) from time to time in order to try to get positive bacteria established there. To that end, I purchased a bunch of Nassarius and Cerith snails today.
My sand bed is 3/4" at its deepest, and using RO/DI water in conjunction w/ Chemipure Elite in the filter.
Thoughts/comments?
Thanks,
Emil
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
That is exactly why I have a sand sifting sleeper goby...he stirs my sand and the yuck won't have a chance to settle.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Here is my take on getting rid of Cyano.
Red Slime (Cyano Bacteria)
Cyano grows on top of nutrient rich areas of low flow. There are a number of things that need to be correct or possibly corrected to combat this without the use of chemical additives. The biggest thing is to get rid of the extra nutrients.
1. Evaluate your feeding. If you are feeding more than can be eaten in about 1-2 minutes it is too much and the remainder of it is falling to the rock and sand and becoming nutrient.
2. Evaluate your flow. If you have areas in the tank where there is little to no flow this can be corrected by adding power heads or repositioning the ones you already have. You don’t need to create sand storms just have water moving over the area to keep detritus suspended in the water column for removal by your filter – skimmer.
3. Evaluate your water changes. The solution to pollution is dilution! You want to continually remove unneeded nutrients as well as replace those things that are used by the system. 10% weekly is a good change schedule. Some do 20% every other week and some vary the schedule from there, but a good start is 10% per week.
4. Evaluate your lighting schedule. About 10 hours of daylight is all that is needed.
5. If you have a cyano outbreak do the above 4 items andh:
a. At water change time siphon off the cyano first. It will come up easily almost like a blanker.
b. After siphoning stir the affected areas a little to suspend any detritus for the water change and filtering - skimming removal.
c. Use a turkey baster now and at every water change in the future to again suspend the detritus for removal by the water change and your filtering – skimming.
Keeping nutrient levels low to non-existent will help to avoid cyano outbreaks and any algae outbreaks as well as keep your tank and you happy happy.
Hope that helps.

[hr]
Henry
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
I'm kinda in the same boat as meowzer.
After the water change and stir, I also put my Magnum HOT w/ the microfilter on the tank to get out the little stuff. (No Diatomaceous - I understand that can add Silicates - correct?)
I definitely don't overfeed. If anything - under - I feed what can be eaten in less than a minute, and only every other day.
I've done three 25% water changes over the last 1.5 weeks.
Tank got 10 hrs per day Actinic, and 8 hrs 10k. I do notice the bacteria "disappears" overnight, and then begins to reappear when the 10k's come on, so I've cut the 10k's back to 5 hrs/day for the moment.
I need to get a phosphate kit, but NO3 tests continually at 0, which I suspect is a false reading due to the evil red slime.
I do have one HUGE NO3 producing suspect, that being the star my harlequin is consuming. It's almost gone, and I will continue to monitor, but I suspect that's a major contributing factor.
In any case, I've re-adjusted exisiting flow and added some more as well. The problem does seem to be abating. It's only been a few days, so we'll see.
I needa get a turkey baster - first thing tomorrow, it's off to the dollar store...
Thanks for all your help.
I'll keep you posted.
PS - meowzer - I've noticed with the Magnum that if I shut it off for any period of time, it starts spitting bubbles on restart. I now have two - one running full time, and one for ttt filtering. I usually shut off at feeding time, and it spits for 1/2 an hour or so after I restart. Haven't found a solution yet.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Ok, new additions to CUC have done well. The starfish has been consumed, and poor Vampira (the harlequin) is wandering around the tank looking for more.
She molted about 2 weeks ago and is fat and happy, so I'm gonna wait about a week before I get another star, and see what happens then.
Sand is pristine this morning. I put in some PO4 pads as a just in case a couple days ago, and Chemipure Elite is being delivered today.
During the whole process, Ammonia and Nitrites have been 0. Meantime, will continue testing Nitrates daily. I've never gotten a reading above 0, which is leading me to think either bad kit (API) or false readings due to the algae???
 
whisk

whisk

Active Member
great thread. i have run into the EXACT same situation you have. I have a small patch of cyano growing on my sand. Im researching on how to get rid of it and in the mean time i am siphoning out every week i water change.
I noticed it started to grow in a spot that doesnt get as much flow now so i might move the power head a bit.
I havent checked my phosphates lately and i will do that soon. I'm pretty good about feedings, but i might switch to every other day until I can reduce the problem.
Good luck to both of us!

and thanks Spanko for your advice!
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
The cyano does not take advantage of the absence of nitrification bacteria. The nitrogenous bacteria are still present and still doing exactly what they were doing before. Cyanobacteria just feeds on dissolved organic wastes...mostly phosphates. How I did it was to get EVERY morsel of it out and then fix my water and keep it fixed. Seemed to work well.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Yep, I agree. It seems to be abating, and doesn't like when I run less light. Corals seem no worse for it at this point (only polyps and some hardy LPS) so I will continue with that for a few weeks. I've also changed the flow, and that seems to have helped too.
Prepped 4th 25% (RODI) water change in the last 2 weeks for today. Will continue as needed.
Also added ChemiPure Elite and Purigen yesterday, so will give them time to work. If there's PO4 in the water (and I suspect there is as I made the mistake of starting w/ tap) that should help as well.
I just find it curious that it is only present on the base rock, sand and glass. It's not present at all on the live rock.
Just an observation, I don't know if it means anything.
Meantime patience is my mantra...
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
I too am preparing for my 4th water change. I also have lessened my lighting time, added phospure pads to filter, and continue to siphon cyano off sand, extra rinsing of food...My phosphates are staying close to 2 though...My last w/c I siphoned the water from the sand with one of those tube siphons (you get from Walmart) instead of using my pump...I got a lot of waste out of the sand too. I have no clue what the issue is now....I have to be careful what I do since I also have seahorses in this tank.
PATIENCE....sigh.....
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3001705
I too am preparing for my 4th water change. I also have lessened my lighting time, added phospure pads to filter, and continue to siphon cyano off sand, extra rinsing of food...My phosphates are staying close to 2 though...My last w/c I siphoned the water from the sand with one of those tube siphons (you get from Walmart) instead of using my pump...I got a lot of waste out of the sand too. I have no clue what the issue is now....I have to be careful what I do since I also have seahorses in this tank.
PATIENCE....sigh.....
Mine is gone

Don't worry. You will get so frustrated with it one day and just as you're about to order chemiclean...it will go away lol.
It is like THE worst thing an aquarium can endure. But once it's over with...you will be so happy.
When I had mine it was on the sand too. That is where detritus can accumulate better, so that's where it will live mostly.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
The funny thing is I do not have a lot, but I siphon off the sand...looks great....next day it's back....I will never add a chemical..don't believe in it...It is also my seahorse tank, so chemicals are out of the question...The frustrating part is that I HAVE NO CLUE what is causing it
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3002053
The funny thing is I do not have a lot, but I siphon off the sand...looks great....next day it's back....I will never add a chemical..don't believe in it...It is also my seahorse tank, so chemicals are out of the question...The frustrating part is that I HAVE NO CLUE what is causing it
I would never add chemicals to my tank either...too risky. Here's a thought...don't syphon it. Let it get really nasty. It won't hurt anything...really it won't. Do water changes and don't syphon.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3002058
I would never add chemicals to my tank either...too risky. Here's a thought...don't syphon it. Let it get really nasty. It won't hurt anything...really it won't. Do water changes and don't syphon.
Why not siphon???? Does it hurt it?
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3002074
Why not siphon???? Does it hurt it?
Nope. Just throwing out ideas. I had it for months and eventually I got lazy with siphoning and I just did a ton of water changes and it went away. I have no idea
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
I think the problem is that it is a seahorse tank and strong water flow is not possible.
Can you maybe place purigen pacs in your filtration? I know you dont like chemicals, it is more of an absorbing kind of pad.
Seahorse food is frozen isn't it? You were telling me how to rinse it. Maybe purigen can help.
I got rid of cyano but I bought a sleeper goby to keep my sand clear, and really added to water flow, that can't be done in a seahorse tank.
wish I could be more help.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Personally, I would never say never - e.g. define chemicals. When it comes down to it, salt formulations are chemicals... Trace elements are chemicals... Supplements are chemicals... Buffers, etc, are chemicals.
You get the picture - it's a matter of degree.
I got some Boyd's "Red Slime Remover" as a last resort. More of a worst case/peace of mind thing, than that I'm actually willing to use it. It's a psychological help, to me, to have it on hand. Then I can hold off as long as I want, 'cuz I've got it if it must be.
I'm gonna give it a few more weeks and water changes first. Did 25% today, and new batch of RODI perking now.
Que sera sera...
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3002091
Personally, I would never say never - e.g. define chemicals. When it comes down to it, salt formulations are chemicals... Trace elements are chemicals... Supplements are chemicals... Buffers, etc, are chemicals.
You get the picture - it's a matter of degree.
I got some Boyd's "Red Slime Remover" as a last resort. More of a worst case/peace of mind thing, than that I'm actually willing to use it. It's a psychological help, to me, to have it on hand. Then I can hold off as long as I want, 'cuz I've got it if it must be.
I'm gonna give it a few more weeks and water changes first. Did 25% today, and new batch of RODI perking now.
Que sera sera...
DNA is a chemical...you knew what I meant. Anyway, don't give in to the chemicals. Ask renogaw, that is not something you want to use. Poor guy learned that the hard way.
Good Luck
 
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