Cycle tank?

gemmy

gemmy

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/381441/cycle-tank/20#post_3323119
I am going to disagree on one statement here. I do not know of any product that is on the market that will supply you with anaerobic bacteria for di -nitrification
also waiting for nitrates to reach zero may in fact have you waiting for ever. Once your ammonia spike and nitrite spike has returned to zero you are good to continue. Just do a small water change
+1.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/381441/cycle-tank/20#post_3323119
I am going to disagree on one statement here. I do not know of any product that is on the market that will supply you with anaerobic bacteria for di -nitrification
also waiting for nitrates to reach zero may in fact have you waiting for ever. Once your ammonia spike and nitrite spike has returned to zero you are good to continue. Just do a small water change
Ok Joe, the bottle does not say it out right but, you tell me what you get when you read "Microbe-Lift Special Blend has a hydrogen sulfide odor which will dissipate quickly. Lowers ammonia levels and biologically reduces nitrates."?
PS: When I used it I figured at least I would inoculate the tank and add diversity to the bacteria, but to my surprise the tank cycled within a week of adding it I did not expect that.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJ http:///forum/thread/381441/cycle-tank/40#post_3323248
Ok Joe, the bottle does not say it out right but, you tell me what you get when you read "Microbe-Lift Special Blend has a hydrogen sulfide odor which will dissipate quickly. Lowers ammonia levels and biologically reduces nitrates."?
PS: When I used it I figured at least I would inoculate the tank and add diversity to the bacteria, but to my surprise the tank cycled within a week of adding it I did not expect that.
I am sure you know this but I will restate it for newer hobbyists. There are two basic ways we remove nitrates from our aquariums. One is dissimilarly and the other is assimilatory nitrate reduction. Now during assimilatory nitrate removal we introduce a higher form of algae such as caulerpa to absorb the nitrates if you will and then we remove them through harvesting. In dissimilatory nitrate reduction anaerobic bacteria reduce nitrates into nitrous oxide gas which are lost to the atmosphere. I am sure store bought products do not contain higher forms of algae. They would have to then somehow introduce anaerobic bacteria into our tanks. That being said the bacteria which can only survive in near zero oxygen would have to survive in the bottle and then be introduced into our tanks which have a near oxygen saturation state and somehow colonize deep in our sand bed or get absorbed in the porous portions of our live rock and colonize through advection Sorry I just don’t see this happening
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Prodibio has a product with heterotrophic bacteria in a nitrogen atmosphere ampule. Your thoughts?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/381441/cycle-tank/40#post_3323317
Prodibio has a product with heterotrophic bacteria in a nitrogen atmosphere ampule. Your thoughts?
Henry as you know Heterothropic means the organelle of a cell that gets its nutrience from other living organisms, not specific to nitrates. Even so the delivery is what concerns me if you were to deliver bacteria that can convert nitrates to gas how do we keep them alive until they colonize in our oxygen rich tanks
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/381441/cycle-tank/40#post_3323330
Henry as you know Heterothropic means the organelle of a cell that gets its nutrience from other living organisms, not specific to nitrates. Even so the delivery is what concerns me if you were to deliver bacteria that can convert nitrates to gas how do we keep them alive until they colonize in our oxygen rich tanks
perhaps some reading material for my esteemed colleague from Florida.
http://www.prodibio.fr/index.php?file=faq&PHPSESSID=830bc524186fdfae219cee72140fdb35&lng=en&PHPSESSID=830bc524186fdfae219cee72140fdb35
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/381441/cycle-tank/40#post_3323362
Henry interesting reading but if we are talking about Prodibio BIO DIGEST I see their claims to reduce nitrates but no explanation on how
Yep, they do make claims and they don't say how.
Now to the bacteria surviving till added to the tank. DrTim's Aquatics makes claims that Nitrifying bacteria can survive one year from being bottled and the younger the bottle that is use the better. So let us not jump to conclusion but instead find out the answers the best we can. My thought is if Nitrifying bacteria can survive then Denitrifying bacteria should do better. I do not think that being expose to oxygen would kill the bacteria but instead slow its growth. So I do agree with you Joe that if we are getting Denitrifying bacteria putting it in the sand bed would likely give better results.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
Some Bacillus are a Facultative anaerobe and can use oxygen, but also have anaerobic methods of energy production. Bacillus is also a well known Probiotic so with out having direct confirmation, I can say we are very likely getting anaerobic organism… I learned
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
An endospore is a dormant, tough, and temporarily non-reproductive structure produced by certain bacteria from the Firmicute phylum. The name "endospore" is suggestive of a spore or seedlike form (endo means within), but it is not a true spore (i.e. not an offspring). It is a stripped-down, dormant form that the bacterium can reduce itself to. The endospore becomes important when the bacterium is experiencing an environment that is deleterious to the usual vegetative state of the bacterium, such as when the bacterium is getting dried out (desiccated). Endospores enable bacterium to survive through periods of environmental stress which may last millions of years.[sup][citation needed] When the environment becomes more favorable, the endospore can reactivate itself to the vegetative state. Most types of bacteria cannot change to the endospore form. Examples that can include Bacillus and Clostridium.[1][/sup]
Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
Ok so they find a Facultative Bacillus anaerobe that grows fast in saltwater and benefits us, they put it in to a endospore state, and it survive through periods of environmental stress which may last millions of years. Its possible...
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Long read, but does explain the ability of bacteria to enter into a starvation - survival mode.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=40000&q=how+can+you+put+heterotrophic+bacteria+into+suspended+animation
 
1snapple

1snapple

Active Member
Okay, I got the fish home 2 days ago, yesterday they ate. Today they just hid in the rock and didn't even eat. Something wrong?
 
1snapple

1snapple

Active Member
Any issue with this fish list? and what order should I put them in?
2+ green chromis, 2 in the tank
1-2 Perculas clownfish
1 lawnmower Blenny
1 red/blue mandarin
(Opt.) 1 Blue Spotted Jawfish
(Opt.) 1 Purple Tang
(Opt.) 1 Gold-rimmed Tang
1 Panda Bear Goby.
I will only add 1 tang. and any other fish recommendations? I want fish with lots of chararcter and reef safe.
Thanks
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Snapple http:///forum/thread/381441/cycle-tank#post_3322434
Wow, this is will take forever. Time to read a book....... Thanks

Not necessairly.
If the live rock is curred and covered with algae (hopefully corraline) it is possible you will see little to no ammonia/nitrIte spikes but and initial nitrate spike.
That is because the algae actually prefers ammonia over nitrates. So during the startup time algae can keep ammonia low until the bacteria build up and consume the ammonia. Meanwhile the algae will consume less nitrates hence the initial nitrate spike. Then the nitrates will drop down as the tank matures and the algae get its nitrogen from nitrates and not ammonia.
or it could be you just don't have much of a bioload.
my .02
 
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