Death Row to Harsh? what you guys think

teresaq

Active Member
Think about the 11 yr old girl in sarasota that was walking home from a friends, kidnapped, raped and murdered, think about the 2 yr old little girl in ft myers that was beated, and left to die in her bed, then taken to a field and left in a grave. think about the 6 yr old boy, whos mother left him with nebors so she could party, or do drugs, and the neibors beat him so bad, he too dies in his bed and left in a grave. any one who does these kinds of things to a child should die. but then i also think any mother that has her kids taken away because she took drugs while preg. should be made to have her tubes tied so she cant have any more. as the wife of a police officer, there is soo much going on on the streets that people dont hear about, you would not believe. example. my husband went to work at 8:30 tonight, and before 11:00 they have a pedestrian hit by a car and a shooting and a couple other things.
 

corally

Active Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
Think about the 11 yr old girl in sarasota that was walking home from a friends, kidnapped, raped and murdered, think about the 2 yr old little girl in ft myers that was beated, and left to die in her bed, then taken to a field and left in a grave. think about the 6 yr old boy, whos mother left him with nebors so she could party, or do drugs, and the neibors beat him so bad, he too dies in his bed and left in a grave. any one who does these kinds of things to a child should die. but then i also think any mother that has her kids taken away because she took drugs while preg. should be made to have her tubes tied so she cant have any more. as the wife of a police officer, there is soo much going on on the streets that people dont hear about, yo would not believe. example. my husband went to work at 8:30 tonight, and before 11:00 they have a pedestrian hit by a car and a shooting and a couple other things.
AMEN!
 

caillou

Member
Originally Posted by caomt
from watching the news.. i think it is kinda harsh.. an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.. and who are they to say who lives and who dies?

Tell that to the victims family.
 

danedodger

Member
I've come down on the side of being all for the death penalty but here's another view to consider... I think that we really need people in this world who are against it to keep everything in check too! I know that I can personally be a cynical, jaded, emotional, reactionary, bitter old woman sometimes who's had too many hard knocks in this life. Usually I think I'm a good person and most times I'm caring and compassionate but there are times in my life that if the power were my own I would've taken things way too far. Heck I've been known to get so angry a few times that I've said just give me a gun and 24 hrs to do anything I want with it with no penalties and I'll clean some of the garbage out of this world.
So to keep things in perspective, thanks to all of you who are against it!!
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Well, like I said, I'm against the death penalty; BUT I've never had a tragedy in my life test that conviction.
I AM for much harsher punishments. Life in prison should include being locked up and having the cell door welded shut. I see no reason why serious criminals should be allowed to get all of the benefits they get in prison. Take away the TV's, gyms, exercise yard, etc. Make prison such a horrible place that NO ONE can stand the thought of going back there.
 

fishboy091

Member
I lived in Huntsville, TX until I was about 12, so I grew up hearing about people getting the death penalty(im still growin up). Somehow I think the death penalty is better for some. Instead of suffering in prison for the rest of you life. There have been people that have been accused for something they didn't do so if they got the death penalty I don't think that would be too fair. In a way I think it is pretty harsh.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Well, like I said, I'm against the death penalty; BUT I've never had a tragedy in my life test that conviction.
I AM for much harsher punishments. Life in prison should include being locked up and having the cell door welded shut. I see no reason why serious criminals should be allowed to get all of the benefits they get in prison. Take away the TV's, gyms, exercise yard, etc. Make prison such a horrible place that NO ONE can stand the thought of going back there.
I agree with removing the pee wee's playhouse mentality from prisons.
I've heard stories of people committing crimes in order to be sent to prison because they have no insurance. The world is a pretty messed up place and I hope I never sit on a jury and send someone to their death....but I think I could do it.
The people on death row have an opportunity that others are not afforded. They know the end is coming and have a chance to let Jesus in before it's too late. If they don't, then that's between them and God.
 

jmick

Active Member
In the past 30 years more than a 1000 people have been executed in the US and over that span of time 120 people have exonerated and freed from death row. Makes you wonder how many wrongfully accused people have been put to death? A large number of people who end up on death row are there not because of the crime they committed but because they could not afford a lawyer and ended up with an over worked state employee to defend them. OJ killed two people and got away with it because he had the money to hire the best lawyers. Look at the Ramsey’s, they hired a PR team and the best lawyers when their daughter was found sexually abused and murdered in their basement (if they were poor or didn’t have the money they did I’d be willing to bet the case would be closed).
If we could prove with 100% accuracy that the accused was indeed guilty then I’d have no problem with the death penalty (would free up a lot of space from the drug users and dealers we need to lock away) but unfortunately the system is broke. I believe that we are the only industrialized nation to still employ the death penalty. I’m not sure where people get the idea that prison is anything like Pee Wee’s playhouse and to say that is silly. There are some low security prisons but most high security prisons are terrible places with terrible people.
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
In the past 30 years more than a 1000 people have been executed in the US and over that span of time 120 people have exonerated and freed from death row. Makes you wonder how many wrongfully accused people have been put to death? A large number of people who end up on death row are there not because of the crime they committed but because they could not afford a lawyer and ended up with an over worked state employee to defend them. .

In the last 30 years not one person executed had any evidence that showed innocence. I have researched this and posted about it earlier in this thread.
Second, basically you are saying it doesn't matter if you are a criminal.....you are on death row because the state defense attorney is incompetant. Nice.....I have used and known people that used a state Defense attorney. We got off as we were innocent, not because we had money and hired a great high dollar lawyer. If all it took was a high dollar defense team to get you off a crime, how come Martha Stewart served time? No O.J. got off because the police screwed up. Sad, but true. Mosdt lawyers would have been able to get O.J. off with the mistakes and doubt freely available to place in the jury's mind.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
In the last 30 years not one person executed had any evidence that showed innocence. I have researched this and posted about it earlier in this thread.
Second, basically you are saying it doesn't matter if you are a criminal.....you are on death row because the state defense attorney is incompetant. Nice.....I have used and known people that used a state Defense attorney. We got off as we were innocent, not because we had money and hired a great high dollar lawyer. If all it took was a high dollar defense team to get you off a crime, how come Martha Stewart served time? No O.J. got off because the police screwed up. Sad, but true. Mosdt lawyers would have been able to get O.J. off with the mistakes and doubt freely available to place in the jury's mind.

Approximately ninety-percent of those on death row could not afford to hire a lawyer when they were tried.
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Approximately ninety-percent of those on death row could not afford to hire a lawyer when they were tried.

Yet they can afford an appeal after appeal. Strange.
The state does NOT appoint a lawyer to you after you have been convicted. Those convicted, hire lawyers to handle their appeals and get them off. So you are telling me, they are stuck with the state appointed defense attorney but miraculously, after convicted, they have money for appeals and to hire a lawyer to get them off and work for them. Amazing.
 

jmick

Active Member
Here in Illinois a few years ago a group of students from Northwestern helped to exonerate the Ford Heights Four…read below info, this is one of the reasons why there is now a moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois now.
Dieter says the fact that eight of the nine men were freed after intervention from outside forces suggests that Illinois has an unusually active and resourceful community of legal crusaders willing to do pro bono work and investigations. Nationally, about 1 percent of Death Row inmates are found to be innocent. But Dieter adds that if other states had resources like Illinois', that percentage would probably rise.
Outside intervention certainly played a crucial role in last year's well-publicized release of the Ford Heights Four, two of whom - Williams and Jimerson - were sentenced to death. The men were convicted of murder and ---- in 1978 after a recently engaged Caucasian couple were found dead in a predominantly African-American section of Chicago. It took private investigators, a Northwestern University journalism professor and his students to get a statement from a witness saying she had lied due to police pressure. In addition, they obtained confessions from the men who had actually committed the crime. The confessions were then corroborated with DNA testing.
Advocates and lawyers are quick to point out that exonerations like those of the Ford Heights Four are far from examples of the justice system working.
"It would be one thing if we could say the system works, and that individuals followed procedures and were found innocent, but in fact in all the cases it was really a fluke," says state Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Evanston), who with six other legislators is sponsoring a bill to amend the Illinois Criminal Code to suspend executions for one year. "We find persistent wrongdoing on the part of law enforcement. It's really sheer luck that those convicted of these crimes were exonerated in the end."
In the case of the Ford Heights Four, police learned who the real killers were just days after the fact, but police "deep-sixed the information because they had already gone about their frame and couldn't possibly expose it at that point," says Lawrence Marshall, a Northwestern law professor who participated in the cases of five of the nine men released.
The political force the death penalty has is unequaled in the criminal justice system. In Illinois, critics charge the justice system in big counties like Cook of being far too political, and say some of those within the system look at it as nothing more than a political stepping stone. Going for and getting the death penalty in well-publicized cases looks good to most constituents. Currently, the mayor of Chicago, attorney general, and a former governor are all former state's and district attorneys, and a current U.S. attorney is rumored to be planning a run for political office. "If you want to take politics out of it," says Marshall, "you have to do something about the fact that it's become a political office instead of a professional office."
Ky Henderson is a writer in Chicago
 

darth tang

Active Member
I am still waiting for the list of those we executed in the last 30 years that were later found innocent.
What you proved is why we have an appeals process and other such investigations after the fact.
 

jmick

Active Member
Well, being that the vast majority of the people on death row can’t even afford a lawyer and have to use state defense then how exactly would they (or their families) have the money needed to prove their innocence after their execution? On top of that, not all cases have DNA evidence and it can be exceedingly difficult to prove someone innocence years after their trial (especially in cases where defendants confessed under heavy interrogation or where there was unreliable witness testimony or jailhouse snitches offered deals for the testimony). .
Darth, do a google search on Ruben Cantu, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that this guy may have been innocent
 

mudplayerx

Active Member
All I have to say on the matter is if someone murdered one of my family or loved ones, and the court didn't sentence them to death, I would find a way myself to get access to the felon and do the job myself :p
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick

Darth, do a google search on Ruben Cantu, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that this guy may have been innocent
I read up on it. My question is what about the other evidence in the case. All I can read about regarding this, is the guy's friend later saying he wasn't with him and the eye witness saying he was "pressured" by police. But these two witnesses couldn't have been the only evidence in the case. What about the weapon, fingerprints and evidence like that?
 
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