Dersa problem?

[smartorl]

My larger dersa has been a picture of health forever, always opens with the lights. The problem? It had "anchored" to one of my cleaner clams that was buried in my substrate.
Occasionally, the cleaner would be a little exposed and it would almost looks as if the two were moved a bit. For the dersa this meant it would be tipped to one side or the other. Never a big deal, it would open and all was fine.
Several days ago, I saw the clowns playing tug of war with a piece of something white. I walked over and looked and they disappeared with it into the nem. I then saw another piece of the sand bed and went to fish it out and it was attached to my dersa, who is no longer attached to the cleaner. The end of it was frayed almost as if it was torn.
The clam has been fine since. Today, I turned on the lights and it was laying on it's side. The piece of muscle is gone. The clam was clamped shut. It's been several hours and it is still closed. It did open maybe 1 inch or so but nowhere close to normal. It is reactive and closes when anything gets near.
I have noticed my yellow tang has picked at the shell quite a few times which is unusual as she normally isn't in that area of the tank.
Anybody had anything like this happen? I have heard horror stories of people killing clams trying to move them. I have no idea how these two came to part but it was obviously torn one from the other (the dersa was moved a few inches across the sand).
I love this clam, I've had it about two and a half years, I never thought anything bad would happen to the two being attached. Is there anything I can do? I am leaving it alone but worry that I should be doing something.

 

[meowzer]

Sorry about this......did the cleaner die? Maybe they were eating that....
I know when I moved my derasa...man did it get P.O'd....I put it back where it was and it got happy again
for now...yeah....leave it....but if you see things picking at it...you may have to do something else
hAHA.....a lot of help I am

 

[flower]

I can't offer any advice, but I feel your pain. Sounds like it needs a quiet spot to recuperate. Can you gently move it to a spot where the tang will leave it alone?

 

[smartorl]

The little tang hasn't shown any more interest, she wasn't up near the opening, more down on the sides, likely where the mantle covered up any algae. I have seen Benny the LMB under in previously while it was open chowing on the shell.
The cleaner is fine, I rooted it out to see if it was dead or dying but it spit water at me and appears to be fine aside from the attitude problem.
The cleaners are ones I bought a few years back from the seafood counter at Publix, all six of them made it and are in my sandbed. So to show their gratitude, they kill my good clam!
All my parameters are perfect and stable. I checked the salinity because I know high salinity can effect them.
I guess it's a wait and see........
It's the clam in my avatar. I will truly be sad if something goes wrong with it.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartorl http:///forum/thread/381973/dersa-problem#post_3330745
The little tang hasn't shown any more interest, she wasn't up near the opening, more down on the sides, likely where the mantle covered up any algae. I have seen Benny the LMB under in previously while it was open chowing on the shell.
The cleaner is fine, I rooted it out to see if it was dead or dying but it spit water at me and appears to be fine aside from the attitude problem.
The cleaners are ones I bought a few years back from the seafood counter at Publix, all six of them made it and are in my sandbed. So to show their gratitude, they kill my good clam!
All my parameters are perfect and stable. I checked the salinity because I know high salinity can effect them.
I guess it's a wait and see........
It's the clam in my avatar. I will truly be sad if something goes wrong with it.

Any possibility it got sand in it? If the LMB ad the tang nipped the sides it most likely was just algae growing on the shell.

 

[smartorl]

It could have, there appears to be the sign of a struggle, I have no doubt some force was required to rip the two apart. Morbid as it sounds, I would have like to have seen it!
No change so far.

 

[smartorl]

It's still only opening a little, the mantle is out. I'm really worried. I am moving next weekend and have been stressing about losing anything and now this! My poor clam!

 

[saxman]

The fact that your derasa attached to anything is rather rare in itself. If the byssal organ wasn't damaged, it has a chance, but if so, the clam could be in trouble.
If you turn the clam over and look at the byssal opening, is there a hole?

 

[smartorl]

Holy crap, I went to lift it to check and it has reattached to one of the ^))^%%$$ cleaners again. A few fine threads but enough that before I knew what was happening, I lifted both clams off the sand bed. I guess this is a good sign? Hope?

 

[smartorl]

Note that I did move the cleaners out of that area of my sandbed before I put my dersa back. Unless there was one hidden super deep, I thought I had them all accounted for.

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///forum/thread/381973/dersa-problem#post_3330980
The fact that your derasa attached to anything is rather rare in itself. If the byssal organ wasn't damaged, it has a chance, but if so, the clam could be in trouble.
If you turn the clam over and look at the byssal opening, is there a hole?
So Derasa don't usually attach to anything?

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/381973/dersa-problem#post_3330997
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///forum/thread/381973/dersa-problem#post_3330980
The fact that your derasa attached to anything is rather rare in itself. If the byssal organ wasn't damaged, it has a chance, but if so, the clam could be in trouble.
If you turn the clam over and look at the byssal opening, is there a hole?
So Derasa don't usually attach to anything?
Not usually, as they prefer sand, but some will, just not as tightly as say a maxima will.

 

[smartorl]

When I bought this one it had been at my lfs for a loooonnnngggg time, it's a little larger than those that come in and get purchased quickly but I know it had been there at least a year and it was just sitting in the sand.
I had only had it a short while when I went to straighten it up as it has kind of laid over and found it was connected. I would say the flesh between the two was about an inch and a half long and as big around as a piece of licorice.
Now it's reattaching?
I'm moving in a week and the timing couldn't be worse!

 

[saxman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/381973/dersa-problem#post_3330997
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///forum/thread/381973/dersa-problem#post_3330980
The fact that your derasa attached to anything is rather rare in itself. If the byssal organ wasn't damaged, it has a chance, but if so, the clam could be in trouble.
If you turn the clam over and look at the byssal opening, is there a hole?
So Derasa don't usually attach to anything?
As mentioned clams such as derasa, squamosa, gigas, and hipoppus are substrate dwellers in the wild, and rely on their size and weight to keep them in place, altho occasionally, one may (usually) weakly attach to something beneath the substrate, presumably if it feels unstable. I've never had one attach itself personally.
To the OP,
the fact that the clam is reattaching itself suggests that the byssal organ wasn't damaged much, if at all, so the prognosis is good. FWIW, if it keeps attaching to a cleaner clam, does it REALLY make a difference to you? IMHO, just leave them be.

 

[smartorl]

I had moved the cleaners because I still don't know how they came to be seperate. The dersa has been attached to it for a very long time and it wasn't until I saw the clam lying a bit to the side, the cleaner exposed and the ragged flesh that I realized they were apart. Given the thickness of the "muscle" between the two and the fact that it appears to be torn at least partially leads me to believe it took quite a bit of force. I was just worried that it could maybe happen again. The attachment is done and I will leave them that way.
The mantle, while not fully extended is reactive and the colors are bright.
Any suggestions on any special handling that may be needed in the move?

 

[saxman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartorl http:///forum/thread/381973/dersa-problem#post_3331291
Any suggestions on any special handling that may be needed in the move?
I'm not sure I understand regarding "the move"...
Just a thought: you might want to sit a clam halfshell just under the substrate and sit the derasa over it. That way, if it attaches, it will be to the halfshell and the cleaner clams can't get near it.

 

[smartorl]

I am moving starting this Saturday. I have two weeks so I think I will save this tank to last rather than doing it first as I had originally planned. I really am attached to this clam. It's alive although obviously not happy. It is back firmly attached to the cleaner by quite a few "strands" of flesh. Should I try and gently detach it or leave it. I have no idea how the cleaner got back under it. I moved all of them. I counted today and sure enough, I didn't miss one, this one somehow got back on that side of the tank. After I moved them, they all buried themselves pretty quickly.

 

[saxman]

I'd leave it at this point, as you really don't want to fool around with the byssus if you can help it.
And for the record...MOVING TANX SUX ROYALLY! We just moved 13 of them!

 

[smartorl]

I don't envy you guys at all! I am stressing over my 5, seriously stressing.

 

[saxman]

Dood...by the time were were finished, I was ready to give up the hobby because I was so sick of fish tanx! Fortunately, the feeling passed in a couple of weeks.