dirty tanks?
- Thread starter kinkfish
- Start date
buzz
Active Member
That really varies on filtration for the tank, contents of the tank, etc. Some don't ever do water changes. Many will do them regularly. Small changes every week, month, etc.
The best thing I would recommend is to test the water weekly, and monitor your levels. If you see them climbing, it is, IMO, time for a change.
That is if you want some way to know that a change is due. I would still recommend regular changes anyway.
The best thing I would recommend is to test the water weekly, and monitor your levels. If you see them climbing, it is, IMO, time for a change.
That is if you want some way to know that a change is due. I would still recommend regular changes anyway.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by kinkfish
How do you guys know it is time to do a tank clean and waterchange?
Basically whenever the tank looks dirty. When you don't like the algae (if any) on the glass then wipe it off. Sometimes especially with new tanks and/or new lighting you will get algae blooms. With proper feeding those can disappear on their own. Right now on my tank I have to do a glass scraping once per week. Two weeks ago it was more like once every two days.
I never do (since the late 70's on both fresh and salt tanks) any waterchanges.
irocbanshee
New Member
How do you get away w/ not changing water in your fresh water tank? I usually pull 10% out a week. Otherwise my tank really gets dirty & grungy. I am sure it is your filtration system. I would love that!! I have a little 10g for my freshwater & as I stated, if I don't do it, then my tank gets nasty quick.
reefnut
Active Member
I clean my class about every 2- days. Water change weekly. IMO, routine water changes is an effective maintenance tool. If you wait until you have problems to start water changes then it takes a long time to straighten it all out.
irocbanshee, if you seen Bob's tank you would see the effects that no water changes in addition with some other non-typical methods has had
.
irocbanshee, if you seen Bob's tank you would see the effects that no water changes in addition with some other non-typical methods has had
.
D
daniel411
Guest
Welcome to saltwater, irocbanshee!
moopiespoo
Member
I usually do a 12% water change bimonthly, I clean the glass everyday because I cant stand that algae and I don't have snails in my aggressive. I do filter maintnence once a month and empty the skimmer as needed.
kinkfish
Member
I have had my tank set up since dec and my diatoms are pretty
much none existant.But in its place I am getting some bright green hairy algea. And unfortunatly I have cc so when it looks dirty that is when I gravel vac and do water changes. I do test and my nitrite levels are 0 ammonia levels .15 after about a
month.
much none existant.But in its place I am getting some bright green hairy algea. And unfortunatly I have cc so when it looks dirty that is when I gravel vac and do water changes. I do test and my nitrite levels are 0 ammonia levels .15 after about a
month.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by irocbanshee
How do you get away w/ not changing water in your fresh water tank? I usually pull 10% out a week. Otherwise my tank really gets dirty & grungy. I am sure it is your filtration system. I would love that!! I have a little 10g for my freshwater & as I stated, if I don't do it, then my tank gets nasty quick.
reef was refering to my 6 month old salt FO. I have since set up a refugium/sump. I find it amazing reef and others compare that setup to 2 year old reefs with refugiums, tons of corals, $500 of live rock and state that my tank looks so bad because I don't change water and use tap water.
Based on my experience, water changes are unecessary and detrimental to balanced out and stable systems. Balancing out requires the use of plant life. Stability requires you not constantly change things. I highly suspect it is the waterchanges themselves which prevent tanks from becoming balanced and stable. I am certain the lack of plant life prevents tanks from becoming balanced.
Most of the dirt and gunge I see in tanks is algae. All plant life including algae requires nutrients (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) carbon dioxide, and light. Ammonia and nitrAtes comes from the nitrogen cycle, phosphates from food, carbon dioxide from fish and light from our lighting. Cleaner crews can eat some of the gunge and that is helpful. But the end effect is the gunge is more concentrated and eventually goes through the nitrogen cycle. Therefore, the long term cleaning is done through plant life. Adding desirable plant life (macro algaes/marine plants) takes the nutrients away from the undesirable plant life. Additionally, the plants filter out heavy ions, provide food for fish, buffer ph, and blanace out and stabilize the system. Most of the really awsome tanks you will see here have a refugium setup with the operator harvesting bunches of macro algaes on a regular basis.
this is a salt forum but, since the late 70's my fresh use use no mechanical filtration of any kind. The only electricity is for the lights. The key is to establish plants first and then add livestock later. For more information you can email me at beaslbob@aol.com.
kinkfish
Member
I just built a 18gallon fuge seeded the sand but do not have any micro algea in it as of yet. I bought one of those marine life test kits where you add 8drops of liquid to your tank water and dependent on the color yellow green etc you gauage the level.
mine is inbetween the first color and the 2nd so i think it is ok.
mine is inbetween the first color and the 2nd so i think it is ok.
overanalyzer
Active Member
Originally posted by beaslbob
Based on my experience, water changes are unecessary and detrimental to balanced out and stable systems. Balancing out requires the use of plant life. Stability requires you not constantly change things. I highly suspect it is the waterchanges themselves which prevent tanks from becoming balanced and stable. I am certain the lack of plant life prevents tanks from becoming balanced.
OK You tout your expereince - so I think it is time to come back with others who have as much if not mroe expereince.
First - I have been doing tanks since '88 so not nearly as long as you - but I have done FW, Planted FW and SW tanks. Water changes are key - no matter what you do.
Anthony Calfo states in his book (and I am paraphrasing since i do not have the book here in front of me - but I wil lquote it later once i find it): Without water changes you are dooming your critters to living in an un-healthy system.
Case in point - Humans pull their oxygen from the air around us and Plants help us by using waste CO2 and turnign it into oxygen. Imagine if someone put you into a gallonized container. I am 5'8" tall. if you use the 5 gallon per inch rule I would go into a 340 Gallon tank (68" * 5). Imagine then surrounding that tank with water and putting in a bunch of plants for me and feeding me once a day ..... I then get to eat, sleep, breath and make a mess in a confined area ...... if if you added a huge refugium and circulated the air between the refugium and the tank - would you want to live in a set-up like that without EVER getting any fresh air.
DO NOT LISTEN TO THE 0 WATER CHANGE idea!! your fish produce pollutants of all kinds - not just Co2 - and those polluntants can not all be handled by plants.
Please do research and ignore post counts - and please do not take one person's word as gospel.
Good luck with your water changes.
In my 20 I do a gallon every week and in my 140 I am planning on doing 10 Gallons every two weeks.
How do I know when to do it? I do not wait for hte water to tell me I just do it to help keep polluntants down. Also - I keep an eye on my xenia - if they start looking funky I check water quality first (including an unscheduled water change if need be).
HTH
remember - dillution is the solution to pollution!!!
kinkfish
Member
Not doing water changes does not make much sense for me because
1) fish poop you need some type of mechanical filtration or gravel vacs to remove.unless you have some kind of super pooper eater.
2) fish use up the trace elements in the water
3) water gets old and maybe does not hold oxygen like fresh added water?
1) fish poop you need some type of mechanical filtration or gravel vacs to remove.unless you have some kind of super pooper eater.
2) fish use up the trace elements in the water
3) water gets old and maybe does not hold oxygen like fresh added water?
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
I understand your feelings and concern. Not doing waterchanges and the importance of plant life were foreign to me when i first started out and were my first two months experiences with my current 55g. You can expect your current experiences to continue by doing what you are doing. When I added plants (fresh and salt) and stop doing water changes then my tanks stayed cleaner.
Originally posted by kinkfish
Not doing water changes does not make much sense for me because
1) fish poop you need some type of mechanical filtration or gravel vacs to remove.unless you have some kind of super pooper eater.
Snales, hermits, and others do eat the poop but as mentioned above this only creates more concentrated poop. The bacteria on your tank decomposes that poop as part of the nitrogen cycle. Sure you will have to clean a tank. the only question Is if that cleaning is weekly, yearly, or every 10 years.
2) fish use up the trace elements in the water
Agreed. And those elements are replaced by the food they eat, added by the same water that takes those elements to the sea, and buffered by the substrait. All a water change will do is slow down the increase or decrease in whatever is changing in the system.
3) water gets old and maybe does not hold oxygen like fresh added water?
The primary reason tank water cannot hold as much oxygen is the build up of carbon dioxide from the fish. Plants absorve that carbon dioxide allow more oxygen in the water.
Originally posted by kinkfish
Not doing water changes does not make much sense for me because
1) fish poop you need some type of mechanical filtration or gravel vacs to remove.unless you have some kind of super pooper eater.
Snales, hermits, and others do eat the poop but as mentioned above this only creates more concentrated poop. The bacteria on your tank decomposes that poop as part of the nitrogen cycle. Sure you will have to clean a tank. the only question Is if that cleaning is weekly, yearly, or every 10 years.
2) fish use up the trace elements in the water
Agreed. And those elements are replaced by the food they eat, added by the same water that takes those elements to the sea, and buffered by the substrait. All a water change will do is slow down the increase or decrease in whatever is changing in the system.
3) water gets old and maybe does not hold oxygen like fresh added water?
The primary reason tank water cannot hold as much oxygen is the build up of carbon dioxide from the fish. Plants absorve that carbon dioxide allow more oxygen in the water.