Distilled water?

[stapler]

BOB...I dont know why you continue to give your advice to new hobbiest, especially when you know that lots of people are just going to come down on you and tell you to stop it. Your just wasting your time...no one is going to do what you are doing. If it works for you, thats fine, but stop trying to persuade people to do it your way.
Its just not going to happen.
:nope:

 

[jedininja]

Cincy,
All I can say is thank you. It mightseem like we bash on bob, but never has he once tried to prive what he claims. He only wants to do things the cheapest way possible.
So it is refreshing to see someone go out and test the results in a scientific manner. So hopefully we will see how fast/if plants suck out heavy metals, fouride and other things and if it can keep up woth Tap top offs.
I like new ideas and natural ways are great. But I have no respect for someone making untested and unproven claims. Testing what you belive iun is something to be respected, whether right or wrong.

 

[bang guy]

That sounds GREAT Cincinatti! I was hoping for something similar to cross check previous findings.
I have a few comments about things discussed on this thread (what a surprise!!) LOL
My $0.02
Macro Algae will absolutely consume Phosphate. Will it scrub enough to keep up with adding Tap or RO water? Well, that obvuiosly depends on how much is in the Tap or RO water, how much is added through fish food, how much Algae you have, and how well that algae is growing. It will consume a lot but there are finite limits to what it can do. It just seems obvious to me to add as little as possible so not as much needs to be removed.
RO/DI is not a cure all.
The Finger Leather that died in Bob's tank IS a low-light coral and should do fine under the lighting he has. Sorry Bob, but it died from some other cause. I strongly doubt its death had anything to do with tap water either. Leather corals LOVE toxic metals. Have you read my post about Caulerpins?
Not all distilled water has PO4 but you won't know until you test for it.
IMO a high quality 55 gallon reef tank should cost at least $2000. More if you don't DIY equipment.
I have never run a reef system using Plant life as the only filtration. Bob is absolutely correct with this statement. And I doubt I ever will. I fail to comprehend why anyone would choose to completely rely on a single failure point. My current reef system incorporates Algae, Xenia, a DSB, live rock, clams, a skimmer, and water changes. If one of my filtration systems fails I doubt my coral will even notice and I should have plenty of time to fix it before any harm results.
I don't recommend expensive equipment lightly. Anything I recommend I do after weighing the odds of success with or without said equipment. ie. There are many nice tanks without skimmers but a skimmer can give a reef tank just a little bit more room for error. That little bit more can easily be the difference between $1000 worth of corals being merely irritated vs a total tank crash where most new hobbiests just give up.
Just sharing some of my thoughts....

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by Salty Rob
Am I making a mistake or what?
Could be, maybe not. Your water softener takes out a lot but I'm not sure how much is left. I would think the manufacturer of the rosins could tell you exactly what is won't take out and you can compare that with the water analysis from your water district.

 

[beaslbob]

Cincy: understand that your system will be different. And appreciate the effort.
All: Well if you don't believe my nitrAtes went from 160ppm ++ with an accurate test kit to 0.0 in three weeks then you don't believe it. Sure a macro culture tank. but a fish did grow from 3/8" to 1.5' in 6 weeks with no feeding. All with no circulation, no filtration. But then you don't believe me youwon't believe me.
All the proof I need is looking at the salt and fresh tanks i have maintained using tap water in various cities since the late 70's. There is absolutely no question FW and FO salt tanks can be maintained with tap water and the only filtrations being plant life. Salt does benefit from some circulation. My specualtion is that is because macro algae does not have circulation systems. And some helper filtration does help prevent a buildup of mulm on the bottom.
What bothers me here is this is all considered "my unproven" system. To (mis)quote a french king, my system is neither mine nor unproven. As result I have fallen prey to the numerous posts here and advised newbies on how to get their algae blooms under control. After the " 'my' add plant life" I really fell prey and advised how to just get rid of the algaes. Then the newbie posted later asking why a fish died but the tank looked so much better. They simply deserve better.
Any system with a bioload is going to have plant life. The only question is what does that plant life look like and whether or not there is enough of it to process the wastes. There is no other single aspect of FW or salt aquarium keeping that is more important. Newbies simply deserve better.
All tap water does is make your plant life grow grow faster and add trace elements.
All over feeding does in feed the plant life.
all phosphates do is feed plant life.
All sunlight does is make the plant life grow faster.
All shop lights do is make the plant life grow faster.
All water changes do is interrupt the entire system.
Sure you shouldn't overfeed. Sure you need brighter lights and the correct k value for corals. And those things are important.
But plant life will overcome all that.
Finally it is not a matter of money. I make several times the median household income. And my wife works too. It is simply a matter of what works and works well.
The newbie deserves no less than that.

 

[jedininja]

Originally posted by beaslbob
All: Well if you don't believe my nitrAtes went from 160ppm ++ with an accurate test kit to 0.0 in three weeks then you don't believe it. Sure a macro culture tank. but a fish did grow from 3/8" to 1.5' in 6 weeks with no feeding. All with no circulation, no filtration. But then you don't believe me youwon't believe me.
All the proof I need is looking at the salt and fresh tanks i have maintained using tap water in various cities since the late 70's.
All tap water does is make your plant life grow grow faster and add trace elements.
All over feeding does in feed the plant life.
all phosphates do is feed plant life.
All sunlight does is make the plant life grow faster.
All shop lights do is make the plant life grow faster.
All water changes do is interrupt the entire system.
Sure you shouldn't overfeed. Sure you need brighter lights and the correct k value for corals. And those things are important.
But plant life will overcome all that.
Finally it is not a matter of money. I make several times the median household income. And my wife works too. It is simply a matter of what works and works well.
The newbie deserves no less than that.
Oh man, this is precious. No one care if your culture tank went down to ) in 3 weeks. We arent running macro culture tanks. What matters is its been 2 months, maybe more of your in tank refugium and your nitrates haven't gone ot 0. No one asked about how fast your fish grows.
you keep on mentioning FW tanks. THIS IS NOT FW!!! I have run FW since I was a kid and its is not the same as SW.
No one asked how to make your plants grow faster. If we wanted our tanks to be over run with plants.
No one said you dont have money. But you always get the cheapest possible solution. For example your lights. If you were really interested what works best and have money to spare, then you would have gotten a skimmer or better lighting just to see if your fish and coral would be happier since you claim you always say your livestock seem happy.

 

[beckzilla]

It is obvious that bealbob is never going to listen to common sense as he has shown many times that he cant relate to it. :nope: :notsure:

 

[jedininja]

True, but we cant stop debating him bewcause he will keep on spreading his "plants will heal the world" message and some newbies will follow because its the easy way.
It almost seems like a cult. Usually people join cults when they are lost and don't know what to do. Cults push on people the easy way, so its easy to fall in. This is the same way. I have seen a newbie or two follow what beaslbob has told them even though they were warned numerous times. They do it because its easy. Who wants to do water changes, pay for RO water and good equipment, wnen you can guy crappy shop lights, throw in a few plants and end up wioth a thriving reef.

 

[beckzilla]

Agreed 100%.

 

[sailfin]

Can't we all just get along?
I work with people like Bob. He feeds off of the comments you guys make. All you are doing is fueling a fire. When I was a newbie here I saw a post that stated never do anything until you read at least 10 responses that coincide. If Bob is the only one that will post positive about tap water, then the newbie should listen to the majority, RO/DI.
:happyfish

 

[jedininja]

I agree that we are fueling a fire. But it can not be ignored for the sake of the newbies who just want to take the easy route and not follow the advice of the majority.

 

[sailfin]

Originally posted by jedininja
I agree that we are fueling a fire. But it can not be ignored for the sake of the newbies who just want to take the easy route and not follow the advice of the majority.
I agree, but that would be the fault of the newbie if he/she did not listen to majority. BTW, I like your pic of the seahorse. We saw them at our local aquarium this past summer, gorgeous creatures.
:yes:

 

[jedininja]

True that it would be the fault of the newbie. But I am in this hpbby for my love the sealife, so I would hate to see a tank crash and all thier life die because they listened to Bob.
And thanks, that is a pic I took at the monteray bay aquarium in CA.

 

[ettienem]

Wow. It sure is hot in here