Do I need a shrimp if......
- Thread starter vito525
- Start date
druluv
Member
No need to add chemicals to do what mother nature will do for you IMO. [/B]
cycle and stress zyme is natural product that have cultivated for the aquarium . Why use a dead animal when they have products available. I don't raise chickens because I can go to the store and buy it. I was this dead shrimp nonsense will go away.
cycle and stress zyme is natural product that have cultivated for the aquarium . Why use a dead animal when they have products available. I don't raise chickens because I can go to the store and buy it. I was this dead shrimp nonsense will go away.
ophiura
Active Member
No need to give more money to tetra and other manufacturers of "miracles in a bottle" which are mostly water, when you have mother nature herself (live rock and some decaying animal matter).
I see no reason not to add a dead shrimp, unless you are rolling in cash, buy a cleaner shrimp collected off the reef, kill it, and then throw it in :notsure: Go out, get a shrimp coctail, and throw a spare one (as if I would have a spare one in this case,
, but you know what I mean) into the tank. Food for you, food for the tank.
Basically what you want to have is a "worst case scenario" for that tank. Lots and lots of ammonia. You may get it just fine with the LR die off, or you may not. I see no harm in adding an additional boost from dead shrimp or food or something.
I see no reason not to add a dead shrimp, unless you are rolling in cash, buy a cleaner shrimp collected off the reef, kill it, and then throw it in :notsure: Go out, get a shrimp coctail, and throw a spare one (as if I would have a spare one in this case,
, but you know what I mean) into the tank. Food for you, food for the tank. Basically what you want to have is a "worst case scenario" for that tank. Lots and lots of ammonia. You may get it just fine with the LR die off, or you may not. I see no harm in adding an additional boost from dead shrimp or food or something.
druluv
Member
Rapidly matures new aquariums to prevent fish loss by controlling ammonia and nitrite. Uses 11 pure strains of microorganisms (dormant and will remain suspended for long periods of time). A minimum shelf life of two years is guaranteed. Cycle is non-pathogenic and will not harm plants, animals, or humans. It is impossible to overdose. For fresh or saltwater use.
ophiura
Active Member
VERY familiar with the product. Sold it often. Great in new freshwater tanks which tend not to have "live" components.
But much of it is marketing....and there is nothing rapid about this hobby. A lot of it is designed so you think you can go as fast as you want...but nothing makes up for lack of patience.
Not going to harm anything, for sure, but a waste IMO, again I say, IMO, of money.
But much of it is marketing....and there is nothing rapid about this hobby. A lot of it is designed so you think you can go as fast as you want...but nothing makes up for lack of patience.
Not going to harm anything, for sure, but a waste IMO, again I say, IMO, of money.
ophiura
Active Member
Originally posted by druluv
I don't raise chickens because I can go to the store and buy it. I was this dead shrimp nonsense will go away. [/B]
:notsure:
Cycle and dead shrimp are two different issues. One is a bacteria source, the other a food for that bacteria source. Without one, there can not be success with the other. You need a bacteria source to get maximum maturation of the biological filter. You MAY get that from die off of critters on the LR (not much different than dead shrimp)...you may not. But a bottle full of bacteria won't do much if there is no supply of food for it....they will die off to meet the supply of food. We want a lot of bacteria to colonize - we give it a lot of food through an ammonia source. So this "dead shrimp nonsense" - OK, use some flake food or something - but I would rather use a dead shrimp caught for human consumption, than think everything is fine and dandy and throw some fish in only to find out that the tank isn't fully cycled.
JMO though.
I don't raise chickens because I can go to the store and buy it. I was this dead shrimp nonsense will go away. [/B]
:notsure:
Cycle and dead shrimp are two different issues. One is a bacteria source, the other a food for that bacteria source. Without one, there can not be success with the other. You need a bacteria source to get maximum maturation of the biological filter. You MAY get that from die off of critters on the LR (not much different than dead shrimp)...you may not. But a bottle full of bacteria won't do much if there is no supply of food for it....they will die off to meet the supply of food. We want a lot of bacteria to colonize - we give it a lot of food through an ammonia source. So this "dead shrimp nonsense" - OK, use some flake food or something - but I would rather use a dead shrimp caught for human consumption, than think everything is fine and dandy and throw some fish in only to find out that the tank isn't fully cycled.
JMO though.
ophiura
Active Member
Originally posted by druluv
I just can't understand why you would place a dead animal in the tank when you have live rock curing. I think telling a newbie to use a dead animal is just wrong. Why start a newbie on the wrong path.
We are counting on "dead animals" in the LR to cycle...what exactly is the difference??
The "wrong path" IMO, would be saying go stock the tank full of damsels or mollies...a common, still popular, and totally effective (though inhumane) method of providing an ammonia source for the bacteria.
But I'll agree to disagree.
druluv
Member
You don't need dead shrimp, all you need ammonia to start the cycle. Dead shrimp also bring organics into the equation. :notsure:
Ammonia is extremely toxic to all of the aquarium inhabitants. It is broken down by an oxygen-loving bacteria, Nitrosomonas. The Nitrosomonas* bacteria feed on both oxygen and ammonia, and with their biological activities, they excrete a chemical called nitrite. Although nitrite is not as toxic as ammonia, even at low concentrations in the aquarium, it can be harmful to fish and invertebrates. Another bacteria Nitrobacter*, which also utilizes oxygen in its respiration, acts in a similar way as Nitrosomonas, and essentially changes the nitrites into a relatively harmless chemical called nitrate
Ammonia is extremely toxic to all of the aquarium inhabitants. It is broken down by an oxygen-loving bacteria, Nitrosomonas. The Nitrosomonas* bacteria feed on both oxygen and ammonia, and with their biological activities, they excrete a chemical called nitrite. Although nitrite is not as toxic as ammonia, even at low concentrations in the aquarium, it can be harmful to fish and invertebrates. Another bacteria Nitrobacter*, which also utilizes oxygen in its respiration, acts in a similar way as Nitrosomonas, and essentially changes the nitrites into a relatively harmless chemical called nitrate
rubberduck
Active Member
Originally posted by ophiura
:notsure:
Cycle and dead shrimp are two different issues. One is a bacteria source, the other a food for that bacteria source. Without one, there can not be success with the other. You need a bacteria source to get maximum maturation of the biological filter. You MAY get that from die off of critters on the LR (not much different than dead shrimp)...you may not. But a bottle full of bacteria won't do much if there is no supply of food for it....they will die off to meet the supply of food. We want a lot of bacteria to colonize - we give it a lot of food through an ammonia source. So this "dead shrimp nonsense" - OK, use some flake food or something - but I would rather use a dead shrimp caught for human consumption, than think everything is fine and dandy and throw some fish in only to find out that the tank isn't fully cycled.
JMO though.
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
druluv
Member
So what happens after the rest of the shrimp releases the nh3. nh3 feeds the other bacteria. this is what makes the cycle. dead shrimp is a little bit more complex because it releases more that nh3. You'll get a whole bunch of other goodies that will help your tank crash. If you want a whole bunch of shrimp organics in your sand and tank, knock yourself out newbie. All it take is some common sense.
what happens after the rest of the shrimp releases the nh3
what happens after the rest of the shrimp releases the nh3
druluv
Member
Originally posted by ReefNut
We are all familiar with the cycle process. Using a shrimp to cycle the tank is in NO way sending someone down the wrong path... making them believe they need to buy something that they do not need is IMO.
I never said you have to buy something, I gave a choice. Use the live Rock or buy a bio starter. buy why add dead material when you don't have to. That was my point.
reefnut
Active Member
You'll get a whole bunch of other goodies that will help your tank crash.
That is absolutely a false statement.
Using a shrimp works just fine... there are thousands of tanks to prove it. There is nothing wrong with giving opinions or options but there is no need to say one method is bad to promote another.
That is absolutely a false statement.
Using a shrimp works just fine... there are thousands of tanks to prove it. There is nothing wrong with giving opinions or options but there is no need to say one method is bad to promote another.
smallfry
Member
holy cow guys chill .....either way works!!
But ophiura is right we count on the "die off on the live rock"
the die off from 1 coctail shrimp from the supermarket..you say tomato and I say .....
well you know...
the answer to the question would be the die off should be just fine to cycle your tank
:yes:
But ophiura is right we count on the "die off on the live rock"
the die off from 1 coctail shrimp from the supermarket..you say tomato and I say .....
well you know...
the answer to the question would be the die off should be just fine to cycle your tank
:yes:
ophiura
Active Member
"Shrimp organics" as in toxins? Not if food quality shrimp is used...better in ways than actual fish food which has preservatives in theory.
I mean, we get a whole bunch of dead stuff on LR -maybe even dead shrimp - but dead sponges, blobs of goo...they are all organics...some of which are in some ways actually are toxic yet totally natural. This is a "ecosystem" we are setting up and you get organic waste in there...and other stuff consumes that organic waste (clean up crews) whether it is a dead animal or animal waste or whatever.
Bacteria colonize the surface of the shrimp and "eat" the proteins...this releases the ammonia...which is the "food" for other types of bacteria as mentioned. Other microbes, protists, various microscopic worms, etc would continue the break down of the shrimp - all a VERY natural, normal process found in the environment (thank goodness or we would be surrounded by eons of accumulations of dead animals and plants). There is nothing wrong with it. Except that once the ammonia spikes most people remove the shrimp before it breaks down into a blob of goo - but more for appearance sake then anything else.
The accumulation of detritus in tanks from decay could become an issue in tanks without enough cleaners, water changes, filtration, over feeding, overstocking etc...and leads to issues, yes. Absolutely agree, from experience But this is an overall problem not related to using a shrimp...you'll get plenty of organic detritus from LR alone too....and in poorly designed or maintained tanks, it may cause a crash...but not due to cycling with a shrimp. Simply a long term accumulation and failure of the system itself from design faults.
I would agree that die off should be enough to spike the ammonia...but in cases where it doesn't, I am a big fan of pushing it with some sort of ammonia source, most commonly, shrimp.
All the above, JMO Cycling is always a fun discussion except, perhaps, for those who would call themselves "normal."
I mean, we get a whole bunch of dead stuff on LR -maybe even dead shrimp - but dead sponges, blobs of goo...they are all organics...some of which are in some ways actually are toxic yet totally natural. This is a "ecosystem" we are setting up and you get organic waste in there...and other stuff consumes that organic waste (clean up crews) whether it is a dead animal or animal waste or whatever.
Bacteria colonize the surface of the shrimp and "eat" the proteins...this releases the ammonia...which is the "food" for other types of bacteria as mentioned. Other microbes, protists, various microscopic worms, etc would continue the break down of the shrimp - all a VERY natural, normal process found in the environment (thank goodness or we would be surrounded by eons of accumulations of dead animals and plants). There is nothing wrong with it. Except that once the ammonia spikes most people remove the shrimp before it breaks down into a blob of goo - but more for appearance sake then anything else.
The accumulation of detritus in tanks from decay could become an issue in tanks without enough cleaners, water changes, filtration, over feeding, overstocking etc...and leads to issues, yes. Absolutely agree, from experience
But this is an overall problem not related to using a shrimp...you'll get plenty of organic detritus from LR alone too....and in poorly designed or maintained tanks, it may cause a crash...but not due to cycling with a shrimp. Simply a long term accumulation and failure of the system itself from design faults.I would agree that die off should be enough to spike the ammonia...but in cases where it doesn't, I am a big fan of pushing it with some sort of ammonia source, most commonly, shrimp.
All the above, JMO
Cycling is always a fun discussion except, perhaps, for those who would call themselves "normal." 