Do Seahorses get narcolepsy?

[sueandherzoo]

Hi Ann.
I got the juvies from SHC. I guess I really do need to put her in QT but I really hesitate doing that (as you've probably noticed) because the few times I have done that with either seahorses or fish in the past, I've always lost them very quickly after moving them. Maybe they would have died anyway but I've never had a positive result from removing something from the display tank and isolating it - if anything it just seems to speed up the decline.
I've got tons of RO/DI water salted and aerating so I'm ready to take 10 gallons from the DT at any given moment...... just not ready to take the plunge yet.... it always seems like a death sentence to me. (talking through my emotions hear, not my brain).
Sue

 

[d-man]

I agree with you on the qt tank! I don't have one but I don't have much fish. Evan though I think it's a death sentence, I would qt it sooner that latter! because I would worry about risking your other sea-horses.

 

[sueandherzoo]

OK, the 10 gallon hospital tank is set up and the female with the white-tipped tail is now in there. I was impressed to see her chase mysis while in there - less than 5 minutes after I put her in. She's also got a tank mate -- an older Reidi that didn't want to eat at lunch today nor tonight. Instead of running out to greet me, he has been hidden behind a rock all day. That is so NOT like him, so I've got him in the hospital tank, too.
So I've pulled out my box of emergency seahorse meds and don't know which to use, help please? I have:
Neomycin Oral Solution
Formalin
Methylene Blue
Malachite Green
BiFuran+
PraziPro
Triple Sulfa
Furan-2
What should I put in the hospital tank?
Sue
P.S. Shot some footage of her in QT - I'll work on getting that posted next but wanted answers to the meds question, if you can, as quickly as possible.
Thanks.
Sue

 

[ann83]

Well, personally I wouldn't put anything in yet. If it were my horse, I'd be monitoring her behavior for any changes, and possibly trying raising the temperature a degree or two.
However, if I were to add a medication, it would probably be Furan-2. Furan-2 is best gutloaded into brine shrimp and then fed to the seahorses, but can be used as a bath treatment if adult brine shrimp is unavailable.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Let's see if I can post a few movie clips: one is in the display tank and one is in the hospital tank..... sorry they are so grainy.

 

[ann83]

Oh yeah, for that tail, I'd start the Furan-2.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Originally Posted by ann83
http:///forum/post/3116773
Oh yeah, for that tail, I'd start the Furan-2.
OK, I put in one packet before bed last night. According to the directions I should add another packet tonight, but I guess I should check the water quality (ammonia and nitrates) when I get home from work to see if I need to do a big water change first. If I do I imagine I'll have to adjust how much more Furan-2 to add.... probably one packet to supplement what I added last night and part of a packet to replenish whatever I take out during a possible water change?
Sue
The girl with the white tail was searching for food this morning, but then again she almost always is. However the fact that she wasn't lying on the bottom as she was before bed gives me hope.

 

[ann83]

Add a full packet a day after the daily water change, regardless of how large a water change you do. However, if you have to do an additional water change after you added that day's packet, you'll need to replace the medication in ratio to the amount of water you've changed. Plan on doing about 50% water changes daily. Continue adding Furan-2 for 10 days, even if she seems to get better before then.
Do not use a light on the hospital tank. Keep 3 sides covered and only use ambient room lighting. Cover any windows in the room. Furan-2 is degraded by light. Also, remember not to use carbon or other chemical or biological filtration in the hospital tank.
Keep ammonia at zero, the temperature as close to 68* as you can get it, and the pH up at 8.2-8.3 (for appetite).
Good Luck.

 

[hlcroghan]

I'm so heart broken that your horsey is having problems. I just hate to see anyone's pet in pain or sick. Best of luck in your treatment of her!

 

[sueandherzoo]

Originally Posted by ann83
http:///forum/post/3117224
Furan-2 is degraded by light. Also, remember not to use carbon or other chemical or biological filtration in the hospital tank.
Good Luck.
Wait - I was on track with everything you said until I got to the part about no biological filtration. I shouldn't be running sponge filters in the hospital tank?
Sue

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/3117418
Wait - I was on track with everything you said until I got to the part about no biological filtration. I shouldn't be running sponge filters in the hospital tank?
Sue
No carbon, or chemicals...
I ran a small filter for flow only....also I added an airline

 

[ann83]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/3117418
Wait - I was on track with everything you said until I got to the part about no biological filtration. I shouldn't be running sponge filters in the hospital tank?
Sue
Nope. Furan-2 is biofilter toxic (as is neomycin and many of the other meds useful with seahorses), running cycled filters just contributes to the ammonia problem because the antibiotics kill the nitrifying bacteria in the sponge filter. It's much easier to control ammonia if your desired filter isn't also adding to the problem.
Un-cycled sponge filters are fine.

 

[reefnutpa]

Ann may disagree..... but I would not have mixed the Erectus and the Reidi in the same hospital tank. Since at least one of them is definitely in need of treatment, you now risk cross infection from one to the other. Especially since many believe Erectus may carry a type of Vibrio/pathogen other species have no immunities to and find it problematic fighting it off. Since both seahorses are obviously stressed at this point, I would be especially observant over the next few days.
Tom

 

[ann83]

I completely missed the two different species thing, Tom.
Were both species in the same display tank? If that's the case, I'd probably vote that as a toss up, with the likelihood being that the damage was probably already done... though, they could be suffering from two different pathogens, in which case putting them in close quarters while stressed could be a problem. Separating them now might help, it might not.
If both species were not already in the same display tank, I would definitely separate them now.
I also probably would have jumped on the antibiotic bandwagon sooner had I noticed the multiple species thing... Can you get live adult brine shrimp to gutload with some Furan-2? That should help a lot more than just putting the Furan-2 in the water.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Yes, the Reidi and Erectus were in the same display tank. My local LFS does not have live brine shrimp but maybe I can make some calls and take a ride to an LFS that does this weekend.
OK, so my sponge filters are now no longer acting as microbial filtration and are probably adding ammonia. Heading down to the tank.......
Sue

 

[sueandherzoo]

I removed the sponges off the sponge filters (so now they are just running to provide aeration) and I removed the small piece of live rock I had in there holding down a plastic plant (for hitching). Then I did a 50% water change and added another packet of Furan-2.
This morning (I stayed home from work) I did a water test and saw ammonia.... does the Furan-2 throw off ammonia test results? Not sure how I could have ammonia already but just in case I did another 50% water change.
The two horses in there don't seem any better, or any worse. They're not eager to eat and of course that worries me. I guess I'll just keep changing the water and hoping for the best.

Sue

 

[ann83]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/3118409
does the Furan-2 throw off ammonia test results?
No, it shouldn't.
But, if you think about it, if you're ammonia was at 0.5 yesterday and you did a 50% water change, that would still only bring the ammonia down to 0.25... I would also be using Prime and Amquel + as needed in addition to the water changes.
Also, to help control ammonia, I always siphon the bottom of the tank a couple times a day in addition to the water change. I try to do it right after feeding (for the leftover food) and then 4+ hours after feeding (for the poo); and then I'll do it again if it looks like it needs it.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Doing another water change, and adding Amquel +. Thanks.
Sue

 

[ann83]

Sooo....???

 

[sueandherzoo]

She's still hanging in there, and if I daresay, she is acting healthier. She isn't lying around on the bottom of the hospital tank anymore.... when I check on her she's either "sitting up" on the bottom or swimming around. If I watch closely, though, it almost seems like she's having mobility problems. Does the infected tail become stiff or hard to use? She seems to do a lot of jerking, and it almost seems like she's struggling to gain altitude. She succeeds, but it's not an easy, graceful thing.
The tail looks as it always did..... should I expect to see any improvement or will it always be discolored and thinner at the tip? She seems real interested in food but then she doesn't snick at them even when they smack her in the face. I've wondered a few times if she's gone blind or something.
I'll keep doing what I'm doing: frequent water changes, siphoning out the bottom of the tank, dosing with Furan-2 and Amquel+ daily, and keeping two sponge filters (without the sponge) running for aeration.
If there's anything else I should be doing, please let me know!
Sue