Do You Believe In Creation

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
john chapter 1
What about it? In the begining was the word and the word was God. It goes something like that right? Many other holy scriptures claim that they are the word of God. It seems pointless to use a passage from a book to claim that the book is the word of God versus another book that makes a similar claim.
 

mike22cha

Active Member
Give me some different "Holy Scriptures".
The Old Testament has stood the test of time, then the Koran and New Testament have stood for many years as well. And the Koran doesn't agree with the other two, so I think it's safe to say the Bible has stood the test of time.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
Give me some different "Holy Scriptures".
The Old Testament has stood the test of time, then the Koran and New Testament have stood for many years as well. And the Koran doesn't agree with the other two, so I think it's safe to say the Bible has stood the test of time.
I have already done this in other threads but ok.
How about the Rig Veda
At that time there was neither
existence nor non-existence,
neither the worlds nor the sky.
There was nothing that was beyond.
There was no death, nor immortality
There was no knowledge of the day and night.
That one alone breathed, without air, by itself.
Besides that there was nothing.
Darkness there was enveloped by darkness.
All this was one water, without any distinction
It was inactive, covered by void.
That one became active by the power of its own thought.
There came upon it at first desire,
which was the first seed of the mind.
Men of vision found in their meditative state,
the connection between the Being and the Non-Being.
All gods were subsequent to this creative activity.
Then who knows from where this came into existence!
Where this creation came from,
whether He supported it or not,
He who is controlling it from the highest of the heavens,
He perhaps knows it or He knows it not ! (Rig Veda X. 129)
or the Tao Te Ching
Something mysteriously formed,
Born before heaven and Earth.
In the silence and the void,
Standing alone and unchanging,
Ever present and in motion.
Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things.
I do not know its name
Call it Tao.
For lack of a better word, I call it great.
Being great, it flows
I flows far away.
Having gone far, it returns.
Therefore, "Tao is great;
Heaven is great;
Earth is great;
The king is also great."
These are the four great powers of the universe,
And the king is one of them.
Man follows Earth.
Earth follows heaven.
Heaven follows the Tao.
Tao follows what is natural.
-Tao Te Ching 25
or how about the Bhagavad Gita
O Arjuna, know Me to be the creator of all the creation. The true understanding of both the creator and the creation is considered by Me to be the transcendental knowledge. Chapter 13 verse 2
And there are plenty more. As far as standing the test of time, all three scriptures I quoted have been around longer than the Bible I believe. Correct me if I am wrong about how long they have been around.
*edit*
Thought I would add atleast one more
The Bhagavad Gita again
He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginningless, as the Supreme Lord of all the worlds—he only, undeluded among men, is freed from all sins
- Chapter 10, verse 3
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
how many years have they been around?
I believe they were all around long before Christ...The Rigveda anywhere from 1700-1000 years before.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
how many years have they been around?
It is hard to say exactly since much of their history has been an oral history which is hard to date.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
It is hard to say exactly since much of their history has been an oral history which is hard to date.
Yes but they are before Christ and Christianity.
 

mike22cha

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Yes but they are before Christ and Christianity.
The Old Testament was before Christ too.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
The Old Testament was before Christ too.
I don't remember anyone talking about the old testament and besides, it presents a vastly different message compared to the new test.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
The Old Testament was before Christ too.
The Torah was before Christ, it wasn't the Old Testament until much later.
The Tao Te Ching was probably around 100 BCE
The Rig Vega was super old, but probably around 5000 years old although it wasn't combined into text until much later.
The Bhagavad Gita, was probably atleast 600 BCE.
Of course those numbers are basically off the top of my head, you can check for yourself.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
Give me some different "Holy Scriptures".
The Old Testament has stood the test of time, then the Koran and New Testament have stood for many years as well. And the Koran doesn't agree with the other two, so I think it's safe to say the Bible has stood the test of time.
Many of these predate the Christian bible by thousands of years. If durability is to be the test of "truth", then the relatively recent Christian bible is lacking in credence. I'm not saying that the bible is inherently unbelievable, only that you shouldn't argue that it is true because it has been around for a long time.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
i believe the bibles been around old testament included 3500 years
The books of the law may be that old. The rest much newer.
I gave a very early date for the Rig Veda (5000 years ago), many people have given dates up to 12,000 years ago.
 

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
The books of the law may be that old. The rest much newer.
I gave a very early date for the Rig Veda (5000 years ago), many people have given dates up to 12,000 years ago.
then it would have to predate man
 

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Why?
well according to the bible , the bible of the God of abraham. you can look back at the ancestory back to adam and come up with about 6000 years
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
well according to the bible , the bible of the God of abraham. you can look back at the ancestory back to adam and come up with about 6000 years
I have no idea how to respond to this. Using your religious text to claim that your own relgious text is the final word is circular logic and does nothing for someone who does not already believe your bible.
 

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I have no idea how to respond to this. Using your religious text to claim that your own relgious text is the final word is circular logic and does nothing for someone who does not already believe your bible.
i never said that infact i was trying to avoide saying that. how else do i respond if the bible is the book i believe in
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
i never said that infact i was trying to avoide saying that. how else do i respond if the bible is the book i believe in
I have no idea how you should respond. I suppose it depends on who you are trying to convince. If you are trying to convice others that your choice of religious text is the only valid one you might want to use something besides your religious text to convince them of that. If you are trying to convince yourself and you already believe the bible to be true than there doesn't seem like there is anything that must be said to achieve that.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
I don't remember anyone talking about the old testament and besides, it presents a vastly different message compared to the new test.
I, and many others, would disagree with this statement.
 
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