Do you think Americans have lost their way?
- Thread starter veni vidi vici
- Start date
jp30338
Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2984029
How? Please explain...
Explain progress? Umm IDK, its quite obvious dont you tihnk.
http:///forum/post/2984029
How? Please explain...
Explain progress? Umm IDK, its quite obvious dont you tihnk.
crimzy
Active Member
It seems to me that one of the main problems in America today is that there is very little unity. These are difficult times for a lot of people and, especially with the recent election, it seems that the country is not only divided but the sides seem to be angry at one another. For so many people, being American has become secondary to being a Republican/Democrat/Conservative/Liberal. This country has made huge steps to minimize the racial and gender inequalities that used to exist. But it appears that we are and will continue to be divided. I think that on some level, people want the bifurcation... it gives them something to identify with. It also gives them something to take pride in and allows them to feel superior. Pretty pathetic IMO.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by jp30338
http:///forum/post/2984045
Explain progress? Umm IDK, its quite obvious dont you tihnk.
Humor me. Pretend for a second you are infinitely more wise than I and explain how leaving the beliefs of our founding fathers is "progress".
http:///forum/post/2984045
Explain progress? Umm IDK, its quite obvious dont you tihnk.
Humor me. Pretend for a second you are infinitely more wise than I and explain how leaving the beliefs of our founding fathers is "progress".
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2984047
It seems to me that one of the main problems in America today is that there is very little unity. These are difficult times for a lot of people and, especially with the recent election, it seems that the country is not only divided but the sides seem to be angry at one another. For so many people, being American has become secondary to being a Republican/Democrat/Conservative/Liberal..
Your really believe this is a new trend? This has been,for a long while now.I think just now We The People have just about had enough.
http:///forum/post/2984047
It seems to me that one of the main problems in America today is that there is very little unity. These are difficult times for a lot of people and, especially with the recent election, it seems that the country is not only divided but the sides seem to be angry at one another. For so many people, being American has become secondary to being a Republican/Democrat/Conservative/Liberal..
Your really believe this is a new trend? This has been,for a long while now.I think just now We The People have just about had enough.
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2984153
Your really believe this is a new trend? This has been,for a long while now.I think just now We The People have just about had enough.
I think things have changed... during the relative prosperity of the 90's, people had far less animosity than they do now. No one thought the leader of the opposing party was the antichrist or a terrorist. People's lives were generally better and so there was not as much anger projected. Also, for about a year or two after 9/11, it seemed like the country came together briefly. But things, IMO, have never been as bad as they have been in recent months... at least not in my lifetime.
http:///forum/post/2984153
Your really believe this is a new trend? This has been,for a long while now.I think just now We The People have just about had enough.
I think things have changed... during the relative prosperity of the 90's, people had far less animosity than they do now. No one thought the leader of the opposing party was the antichrist or a terrorist. People's lives were generally better and so there was not as much anger projected. Also, for about a year or two after 9/11, it seemed like the country came together briefly. But things, IMO, have never been as bad as they have been in recent months... at least not in my lifetime.
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2983681
So what can We the People due? Vote,Protest....?Teach our children these values and hope they can make a change.If we dont we are going to end up like the rest of the Great Civilizations that thought they would exist forever,We can just look back at history and learn from their mistakes.The Roman Empire for example fell because of some of the exact same things we are doing now.
I don't know what you learned about the Roman empire collapsing, but from what I learned (just took world civ 2 years ago, which was a nice refresher) there is no correlation.....please explain...
http:///forum/post/2983681
So what can We the People due? Vote,Protest....?Teach our children these values and hope they can make a change.If we dont we are going to end up like the rest of the Great Civilizations that thought they would exist forever,We can just look back at history and learn from their mistakes.The Roman Empire for example fell because of some of the exact same things we are doing now.
I don't know what you learned about the Roman empire collapsing, but from what I learned (just took world civ 2 years ago, which was a nice refresher) there is no correlation.....please explain...
reefraff
Active Member
I am seeing the faintest little glimmer of a spark that the masses are waking up to the fact we have been had. Agenda driven media is the main culprit but people gotta wake up and start thinking for themselves.
There was a movement called Unity 08 that was gaining some momentum. Their idea was to pick a more centrist Republican and Democrat and run them as a independent ticket for president. Then all the sudden Obama comes out of nowhere and McCain came back from the dead and it killed the momentum as both major candidates were seen as independent minded, boy were they wrong. Now it looks like the momentum may already be building for another group like that.
Having the two entrenched power brokers agree on issues isn't necessarily a good thing.
I see the momentum already building for another 3rd party/Independent run in 2012. If the Republicans can pick up enough seats in the house to give the filthy little yard gnome the boot out of the speakers office I'll be game but if it is still speaker come 2012 I'll vote straight Republican top to bottom.
There was a movement called Unity 08 that was gaining some momentum. Their idea was to pick a more centrist Republican and Democrat and run them as a independent ticket for president. Then all the sudden Obama comes out of nowhere and McCain came back from the dead and it killed the momentum as both major candidates were seen as independent minded, boy were they wrong. Now it looks like the momentum may already be building for another group like that.
Having the two entrenched power brokers agree on issues isn't necessarily a good thing.
I see the momentum already building for another 3rd party/Independent run in 2012. If the Republicans can pick up enough seats in the house to give the filthy little yard gnome the boot out of the speakers office I'll be game but if it is still speaker come 2012 I'll vote straight Republican top to bottom.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2984158
I think things have changed... during the relative prosperity of the 90's, people had far less animosity than they do now. No one thought the leader of the opposing party was the antichrist or a terrorist. People's lives were generally better and so there was not as much anger projected. Also, for about a year or two after 9/11, it seemed like the country came together briefly. But things, IMO, have never been as bad as they have been in recent months... at least not in my lifetime.
You must have lived a sheltered life in the 90's my friend. Clinton was despised by the right and Newt Gingrich was savaged by the liberals. It got worse under bush than I have ever seen it and I was around during Watergate. Right now Obama hasn't gotten it as bad as Bush did right out the gates but give it time.
http:///forum/post/2984158
I think things have changed... during the relative prosperity of the 90's, people had far less animosity than they do now. No one thought the leader of the opposing party was the antichrist or a terrorist. People's lives were generally better and so there was not as much anger projected. Also, for about a year or two after 9/11, it seemed like the country came together briefly. But things, IMO, have never been as bad as they have been in recent months... at least not in my lifetime.
You must have lived a sheltered life in the 90's my friend. Clinton was despised by the right and Newt Gingrich was savaged by the liberals. It got worse under bush than I have ever seen it and I was around during Watergate. Right now Obama hasn't gotten it as bad as Bush did right out the gates but give it time.
salty blues
Active Member
Glen Beck has it right. The problem is that God, or the idea of a God has been systematically removed from the foundations of our country. We do not get our rights and freedoms from government. We get them from our creator.
If God is then removed, then so will our rights and freedoms likewise be removed.
If God is then removed, then so will our rights and freedoms likewise be removed.
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2984166
I don't know what you learned about the Roman empire collapsing, but from what I learned (just took world civ 2 years ago, which was a nice refresher) there is no correlation.....please explain...
There are a lot of theories. But most will agree it was decay from the inside out,Corruption,Greed,Absolutism.......Its a long list if you want them all.I find most of those reasons mirror what we are going through now."Decline"
http:///forum/post/2984166
I don't know what you learned about the Roman empire collapsing, but from what I learned (just took world civ 2 years ago, which was a nice refresher) there is no correlation.....please explain...
There are a lot of theories. But most will agree it was decay from the inside out,Corruption,Greed,Absolutism.......Its a long list if you want them all.I find most of those reasons mirror what we are going through now."Decline"
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2984175
You must have lived a sheltered life in the 90's my friend. Clinton was despised by the right and Newt Gingrich was savaged by the liberals. It got worse under bush than I have ever seen it and I was around during Watergate. Right now Obama hasn't gotten it as bad as Bush did right out the gates but give it time.
I think your politics have altered your perception. Nobody suggested that Bush was a traitor to his country when he took office. I don't recall ever seeing relatively intelligent people try to convince others that the presidential candidate was, in fact, the antichrist. These things are commonplace with Obama. I actually believe that Bush had a pretty high approval rating in his first couple years, with a skyrocket just after 9/11.
http:///forum/post/2984175
You must have lived a sheltered life in the 90's my friend. Clinton was despised by the right and Newt Gingrich was savaged by the liberals. It got worse under bush than I have ever seen it and I was around during Watergate. Right now Obama hasn't gotten it as bad as Bush did right out the gates but give it time.
I think your politics have altered your perception. Nobody suggested that Bush was a traitor to his country when he took office. I don't recall ever seeing relatively intelligent people try to convince others that the presidential candidate was, in fact, the antichrist. These things are commonplace with Obama. I actually believe that Bush had a pretty high approval rating in his first couple years, with a skyrocket just after 9/11.
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2984314
There are a lot of theories. But most will agree it was decay from the inside out,Corruption,Greed,Absolutism.......Its a long list if you want them all.I find most of those reasons mirror what we are going through now."Decline"
I thought it was a time of war when they gave absolute authority to one person (which was normal) and they never gave that power back. Went from a Republic to a Dictatorship.
Of course there was also internal strife that was probably started by the things you mentioned, and the more I think about it, the more I see your correlation.
http:///forum/post/2984314
There are a lot of theories. But most will agree it was decay from the inside out,Corruption,Greed,Absolutism.......Its a long list if you want them all.I find most of those reasons mirror what we are going through now."Decline"
I thought it was a time of war when they gave absolute authority to one person (which was normal) and they never gave that power back. Went from a Republic to a Dictatorship.
Of course there was also internal strife that was probably started by the things you mentioned, and the more I think about it, the more I see your correlation.
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2984197
Glen Beck has it right. The problem is that God, or the idea of a God has been systematically removed from the foundations of our country. We do not get our rights and freedoms from government. We get them from our creator.
If God is then removed, then so will our rights and freedoms likewise be removed.
Glen Beck isn't all that bad, but this theory falls on its face in many ways:
Are you talking about the same God based foundation that only gave power to land owning white men and left everyone else without rights? Remember, the bible was the justification for slavery.....
http:///forum/post/2984197
Glen Beck has it right. The problem is that God, or the idea of a God has been systematically removed from the foundations of our country. We do not get our rights and freedoms from government. We get them from our creator.
If God is then removed, then so will our rights and freedoms likewise be removed.
Glen Beck isn't all that bad, but this theory falls on its face in many ways:
Are you talking about the same God based foundation that only gave power to land owning white men and left everyone else without rights? Remember, the bible was the justification for slavery.....
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2984456
Glen Beck isn't all that bad, but this theory falls on its face in many ways:
Are you talking about the same God based foundation that only gave power to land owning white men and left everyone else without rights? Remember, the bible was the justification for slavery.....
The Koran is justification for jihad by some extremists.I dont believe all early Americans where for and thought slavery was right just as i believe most Muslims dont believe in this jihad.
I could be wrong
I think our founding fathers thought more of Life and Liberty for all, rather than only for white rich English men.
http:///forum/post/2984456
Glen Beck isn't all that bad, but this theory falls on its face in many ways:
Are you talking about the same God based foundation that only gave power to land owning white men and left everyone else without rights? Remember, the bible was the justification for slavery.....
The Koran is justification for jihad by some extremists.I dont believe all early Americans where for and thought slavery was right just as i believe most Muslims dont believe in this jihad.
I could be wrong
I think our founding fathers thought more of Life and Liberty for all, rather than only for white rich English men.
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2984466
The Koran is justification for jihad by some extremists.I dont believe all early Americans where for and thought slavery was right just as i believe most Muslims dont believe in this jihad.
I could be wrong
Good point.
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2984466
I think our founding fathers thought more of Life and Liberty for all, rather than only for white rich English men.
Well not Englishmen, b/c the rich Englishmen stayed in England....no reason for them to move. I'm just saying the Quakers etc set up "God backed" society where inequality was rampant, as did every other group to immigrate to America. Also, where was "God" when the Indians were annihilated?
I'm not trying to argue the existence of a divine being, I'm saying that Glen Beck's diagnoses is ignorant....
http:///forum/post/2984466
The Koran is justification for jihad by some extremists.I dont believe all early Americans where for and thought slavery was right just as i believe most Muslims dont believe in this jihad.
I could be wrong
Good point.
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2984466
I think our founding fathers thought more of Life and Liberty for all, rather than only for white rich English men.
Well not Englishmen, b/c the rich Englishmen stayed in England....no reason for them to move. I'm just saying the Quakers etc set up "God backed" society where inequality was rampant, as did every other group to immigrate to America. Also, where was "God" when the Indians were annihilated?
I'm not trying to argue the existence of a divine being, I'm saying that Glen Beck's diagnoses is ignorant....
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2984456
Remember, the bible was the justification for slavery.....
Where in the world did you hear that?
http:///forum/post/2984456
Remember, the bible was the justification for slavery.....
Where in the world did you hear that?
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2984481
Where in the world did you hear that?
Obedience to thy master.....
If you really want me to look up exactly where that is in the bible, it will have to wait til tomorrow as I'm way too tired for that.
It was used by slaveholders as a social control over their slaves, even though it did more for the slave holders than the slaves. The slaves new it was a crock, and most did not even believe in a 'christian god'.
Where did I learn it? Every american history class I have ever taken. And before you say it was a "liberal public education", the only time I went to a public school was the last 1.5 years of my college education, other than that it was catholic school or methodist sponsored college....
http:///forum/post/2984481
Where in the world did you hear that?
Obedience to thy master.....
If you really want me to look up exactly where that is in the bible, it will have to wait til tomorrow as I'm way too tired for that.
It was used by slaveholders as a social control over their slaves, even though it did more for the slave holders than the slaves. The slaves new it was a crock, and most did not even believe in a 'christian god'.
Where did I learn it? Every american history class I have ever taken. And before you say it was a "liberal public education", the only time I went to a public school was the last 1.5 years of my college education, other than that it was catholic school or methodist sponsored college....
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2984480
Good point.
Well not Englishmen, b/c the rich Englishmen stayed in England....no reason for them to move. I'm just saying the Quakers etc set up "God backed" society where inequality was rampant, as did every other group to immigrate to America. Also, where was "God" when the Indians were annihilated?
I'm not trying to argue the existence of a divine being, I'm saying that Glen Beck's diagnoses is ignorant....
How about the middle class then or at least 95%
http:///forum/post/2984480
Good point.
Well not Englishmen, b/c the rich Englishmen stayed in England....no reason for them to move. I'm just saying the Quakers etc set up "God backed" society where inequality was rampant, as did every other group to immigrate to America. Also, where was "God" when the Indians were annihilated?
I'm not trying to argue the existence of a divine being, I'm saying that Glen Beck's diagnoses is ignorant....
How about the middle class then or at least 95%
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2984484
It was used by slaveholders as a social control over their slaves, even though it did more for the slave holders than the slaves. The slaves new it was a crock, and most did not even believe in a 'christian god'.
.
BALONEY!!
Whipping posts were used for control. Slaves (in the US) were not allowed to read. Teaching a slave to read was against the law.
One of the largest Christian movements in history was in Africa. The Ethiopian Church remains one of the largest denominations of Christianity in the world.
I don't mind waiting until tomorrow for scripture supporting your opinion.
I found something on the United States Dept Of State website...
"Over time, increasing numbers of African-American slaves embraced Christianity, typically denominations like Baptist and Methodist that prevailed among white southerners. Some masters feared that Christian tenets would undermine their justifications for slavery, but others encouraged their slaves to attend church, although in a separate, “blacks-only” section."