Do you think Americans have lost their way?

reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2984442
I think your politics have altered your perception. Nobody suggested that Bush was a traitor to his country when he took office. I don't recall ever seeing relatively intelligent people try to convince others that the presidential candidate was, in fact, the antichrist. These things are commonplace with Obama. I actually believe that Bush had a pretty high approval rating in his first couple years, with a skyrocket just after 9/11.
Are you crazy? I think it is you with the altered perception.
Bush was slammed as "selected, not elected" up until 9-11. People constantly saying he's dumb (Although he and John Kerry attended the same 4 year college and Bush had slightly better marks). Bushes approval didn't really take a hit until he tried to do something about Social Security. Once he was bruised up by that the anti-war crowd came after him.
Who was the relatively intelligent person suggesting Obama is the Anti-Christ? I would say they were relatively irrational
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I hate to break it to you but the US was not the first or last country to have slavery. We had it for a lot shorter duration than the countries a lot of self righteous Euro trash that like to bash us live in did.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2984442
I think your politics have altered your perception. Nobody suggested that Bush was a traitor to his country when he took office. I don't recall ever seeing relatively intelligent people try to convince others that the presidential candidate was, in fact, the antichrist. These things are commonplace with Obama. I actually believe that Bush had a pretty high approval rating in his first couple years, with a skyrocket just after 9/11.
You missed a lot then. Many people said he stole the election. He was a thief. Many people called him a Nazi. Many people said he caused 9/11 (think rosie O'Donnel.
However I do agree with you to a point. And I will say it started in Bush's term. But it is not that the people have changed, but now there is more medium to gather information from. Things have changed dramatically since the 80's. even early 90's. Now days most of the news is covered throughout your day on various outlets. In the past, an individual got their news from the newspaper if they had time to read it, or the evening news on TV, that is it. Now we have a lot of information out there...some good, some bad...but more information means more readers, which in turn means elevated feelings on a grander scale.
I believe the reason you see a lot of us conservatives angry is there was talk of coming together, reaching across the aisle after he won the election. Then add in that all we heard for the last few years ws about the gross spending bush was doing. Now, we see no reaching across the aisle as was "promised", no transperancy as was preached, and no instance of the "scalpel" being used. Basically everything he campaigned on has been thrown out the window. And now our national debt has increased more in 2 months than it did under 8 years of Bush. Our budget has gone in the red further than ever seen before.
And to cap it all off (atleast for me) he signed this budget and spendulous bill with all these HUGE earmarks (which he campaigned he was against) and has the nerve to tell the American people The next bills will have their earmarks scrutinized closer than these bills because we need these bills passed now. THE NEXT BILL WONT NEED EARMARKS SINCE THESE TWO BILLS HAVE ALL OF THEM IN THEM ALREADY! So in the interest of haste we throw caution and such to the wind......exactly wht he campaigned against.
He campaign the Iraq was not looked into enough before we went in, that we weren't cautious,. that we didn't take the time to gather all the intel........Well Mr. President that is exactly what you have done in the last 2 months......
This Crimzy is why I think you are seeing it more....The guy you voted for is in front of the firing squad this time round...the past 8 years it was reversed.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2984719
This Crimzy is why I think you are seeing it more....The guy you voted for is in front of the firing squad this time round...the past 8 years it was reversed.
No he is not. Obama has as symethetic of media (not just news but tv shows, music, movies) that you can have minus being a state run media. This guy is going to have a cake walk, his "press" conferences involve a silent reporters only rising when called upon. Then apologizing for their "biting" softball questions. When was the last time you've seen a press conference when reporters didn't act like piranas with a republican in the white house?
If he thinks this is bad, try being a republican.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2984726
No he is not. Obama has as symethetic of media (not just news but tv shows, music, movies) that you can have minus being a state run media. This guy is going to have a cake walk, his "press" conferences involve a silent reporters only rising when called upon. Then apologizing for their "biting" softball questions. When was the last time you've seen a press conference when reporters didn't act like piranas with a republican in the white house?
If he thinks this is bad, try being a republican.
I think he means bad regarding what the few detractors (us included) have said.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Give it a little time. The newspapers are going broke. I figure one of two things are going to happen.
1. They start acting like responsible journalists and report the truth for a change even if it makes America or dare I say it, a Conservative political figure look good or
2. They keep going the direction they are now and ask the government for a bail out.
I can't wait to see the reaction to the concept of government owned media. Going to be a lot of left wingers having to do gut checks when that happens.
 
makoshrk2

makoshrk2

Member
Politics and religion are both just smoke and mirrors. And I don't believe in either one. Religion is for week people that need to believe in something. It gives people hope, and without hope religious people have nothing. Not to mention that almost every war has started over some sort of religious differences, I'm sure that's what "god" wants. Does god agree with the repeated ---- and molestation of young boys, or does mohammed believe in decapitation of innocent people, or the slaughter of innocent people in Dafur. Where is god when all this is happening.

Politics is all about which party can brainwash the american party better. Who has the more believable BS. Did people really think the saviour Obama was going to do what he said. Some people are like little sheep that drank to much of the kool - aid and are being led to the slaughterhouse.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2984197
Glen Beck has it right. The problem is that God, or the idea of a God has been systematically removed from the foundations of our country. We do not get our rights and freedoms from government. We get them from our creator.
If God is then removed, then so will our rights and freedoms likewise be removed.
If I bought your argument, then the obvious question is "Which God? the Christian one? Jewish? Islamic? Buddha? Hindu? Zeus? Krishna-Vasudeva? Shakti?" The Framers cleverly avoided that question by prohibiting the establishment of a state-defined religion. None of that prohibits the development of laws that reflect the general theological bent of the people: so we don't kill, steal, covet...etc. However, in other cultures coveting is OK, but people are stoned to death for theft. Don't confuse governmental establishment of religion with governmental establishment of cultural-based norms of behavior, many of which are derived from religious traditions.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by makoshrk2
http:///forum/post/2984767
Politics and religion are both just smoke and mirrors. And I don't believe in either one. Religion is for week people that need to believe in something. It gives people hope, and without hope religious people have nothing. Not to mention that almost every war has started over some sort of religious differences, I'm sure that's what "god" wants. Does god agree with the repeated ---- and molestation of young boys, or does mohammed believe in decapitation of innocent people, or the slaughter of innocent people in Dafur. Where is god when all this is happening.

Politics is all about which party can brainwash the american party better. Who has the more believable BS. Did people really think the saviour Obama was going to do what he said. Some people are like little sheep that drank to much of the kool - aid and are being led to the slaughterhouse.
What grade Ganja you got?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2984771
If I bought your argument, then the obvious question is "Which God? the Christian one? Jewish? Islamic? Buddha? Hindu? Zeus? Krishna-Vasudeva? Shakti?" The Framers cleverly avoided that question by prohibiting the establishment of a state-defined religion. None of that prohibits the development of laws that reflect the general theological bent of the people: so we don't kill, steal, covet...etc. However, in other cultures coveting is OK, but people are stoned to death for theft. Don't confuse governmental establishment of religion with governmental establishment of cultural-based norms of behavior, many of which are derived from religious traditions.
When 75% of the American public claim some sort of association a Judeo-christian beliefs. I think there is little doubt which "creator" they are referring to...
But this is an excellent point. But which is it, government establishment of cultural norms. Or government reflecting cultural norms to establish a framework of rules...
After all theoretically the government is of the people....
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2984775
When 75% of the American public claim some sort of association a Judeo-christian beliefs. I think there is little doubt which "creator" they are referring to...
But this is an excellent point. But which is it, government establishment of cultural norms. Or government reflecting cultural norms to establish a framework of rules...
After all theoretically the government is of the people....
I think that, by and large, the laws developed by the government reflect the cultural norms. So...we have a government whose laws are based on Judeo-Christian norms.
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by makoshrk2
http:///forum/post/2984767
Politics and religion are both just smoke and mirrors. And I don't believe in either one. Religion is for week people that need to believe in something. It gives people hope, and without hope religious people have nothing. Not to mention that almost every war has started over some sort of religious differences, I'm sure that's what "god" wants. Does god agree with the repeated ---- and molestation of young boys, or does mohammed believe in decapitation of innocent people, or the slaughter of innocent people in Dafur. Where is god when all this is happening.

Politics is all about which party can brainwash the american party better. Who has the more believable BS. Did people really think the saviour Obama was going to do what he said. Some people are like little sheep that drank to much of the kool - aid and are being led to the slaughterhouse.
I am always amused at how some folks get all stirred up about something that they don't believe even exists. Kinda' like being afraid of the dark, but you don't believe in monsters.
 
makoshrk2

makoshrk2

Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2984813
I am always amused at how some folks get all stirred up about something that they don't believe even exists. Kinda' like being afraid of the dark, but you don't believe in monsters.
That's O.K. Religion and politics are monsters and I'm afraid of both.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by makoshrk2
http:///forum/post/2984823
That's O.K. Religion and politics are monsters and I'm afraid of both.
How can one be afraid of something that only "weak-minded" people believe in. You obviously don't believe in God, so how can you fear religion. If people in politics all lie, what is to be feared?
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2984833
How can one be afraid of something that only "weak-minded" people believe in. You obviously don't believe in God, so how can you fear religion. If people in politics all lie, what is to be feared?
In the interests of making good arguments, religion and God are very different entities. One can be an atheist and still fear that members of the congregation of the church down the street (religion) may burn down your house because of your belief (or lack thereof).
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2984842
In the interests of making good arguments, religion and God are very different entities. One can be an atheist and still fear that members of the congregation of the church down the street (religion) may burn down your house because of your belief (or lack thereof).
That is true but I don't think that is what he is saying and neither does darth. But I applaud your attempt at misdirection... It was a good attempt.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by makoshrk2
http:///forum/post/2984767
Politics and religion are both just smoke and mirrors. And I don't believe in either one. Religion is for week people that need to believe in something. It gives people hope, and without hope religious people have nothing. Not to mention that almost every war has started over some sort of religious differences, I'm sure that's what "god" wants. Does god agree with the repeated ---- and molestation of young boys, or does mohammed believe in decapitation of innocent people, or the slaughter of innocent people in Dafur. Where is god when all this is happening.

Politics is all about which party can brainwash the american party better. Who has the more believable BS. Did people really think the saviour Obama was going to do what he said. Some people are like little sheep that drank to much of the kool - aid and are being led to the slaughterhouse.
LOL, what is a "week" person? I am a Christian and do a pretty fine job of thinking for myself thank you very much.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2984842
One can be an atheist and still fear that members of the congregation of the church down the street (religion) may burn down your house because of your belief (or lack thereof).
Or vice versa.
I seem to recall Christians being fed to lions for sport.
 
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